Exchanging insurance details

[Martyn H]

I cannot see the "advice" section anymore, so posting here.
Sparkplug, apologies in advance if I'm in the wrong section.


Just got off the phone with a very good friend of mine, he was a bit "shaken" if we can use that term.

He was going back home, filtering at a traffic light he forgot he had one pannier on and lightly scuffed a car when they started moving. Signaled and stopped to exchange details.

What happened is that the (middle aged) woman driving came out of the car and started with a stream of abuse to him, despite him immediately apologising and admitting fault. Apparently it went on so long and it was so loud that some people that were around (residential area) approached him asking if he needed any help.

He immediately gave his details to the woman, plate, insurance. He tried to give his phone number and email but they didn't want it.
As soon as he asked their details they (husband was in the car) said there were in a rush, insulted him some more and left.


In the stream of screaming and insults he didn't write down the plate of the vehicle, didn't take any photo of the damage (paint only scratch apparently, nothing else).

He is obviously ok in paying for the damage he made, if there is a possibility of doing it in cash so not to claim he'd like to explore the option.
He is just "worried" of what happens next and started being a bit paranoid of what they could potentially say to their insurance when they call and wants to protect himself.

I reassured him a bit. People that shout and play hardass normally don't follow up. Hopefully they will just claim for the scratch. Still he has no way to contact them to offer to pay for the repair invoice (jn case he wants to offer that).
Will pass him the detail of the lawyer I used a couple of times in the past (that I got from Greg here), but we were wondering if it makes sense for him to write an email NOW to the insurance listing all that happened or if it's better to wait Monday morning (asking for advice first).
Shall he just call the insurer now to notify them of the accident? Follow up with more details later?

I admit I'm a bit flaky around the insurance detail exchange procedure. Weren't they supposed to provide their details? Was it an offense for them to just drive away?

thanks

If I have read it correctly, & I appreciate you are only passing on what you have been told, there is no mention of injury so neither party is obliged to provide insurance details. I fully appreciate most people do it as a matter of course, but it is not a legal obligation.
Section 170 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 states:
If owing to the presence of a motor vehicle on a road, injury or damage is caused to a third party or animal, (which for the purpose of the act is defined as any horse, cattle, ass, mule, sheep, pig, goat or dog), then the drivers involved must…
Stop
Exchange names and addresses of the drivers of the vehicles,
Exchange names and addresses of the owners of the vehicle, (if different)
Exchange details of registration marks, and….
In the case of injury, produce a valid certificate of insurance or security to any person with reasonable grounds to so require these details.
If the law is not complied with, then the drivers must report it at a police station or to a police officer, and must do so as soon as is reasonably practicable and, in any case, within 24 hours of the occurrence of the road traffic accident.

 

[ronnie69]

He spoke with the insurers as well.

Yes, I suspect his premium will go up even if no claim or no fault (it is 100% his fault in this case though - he’s not disputing it).

I’ve been through similar “not at fault” increases, but we go OT

Not sure if it helps but when I had something similar and a renewal pending, I contacted prospective insurers to ask what their stance would be if, as I suspected. the claim would be settled with zero payout but not until a later date some months after renewal. I seem to recall the existing insurer said 6 months had to pass before the claim could be considered closed. ISTR existing insurer said it was tough 5h1t and I had to swallow the premium increase due to the pending claim. However, Direct Line gave me two prices - one for the claim pending and the other if claim settled at nil payout and explained how to claim it back when the claim closed some months hence. When the claim was closed at zero payout, I got written confirmation of that, sent it to DL and they paid me back the difference. Small amount of hassle but sorted out fairly quickly. So, check with different insurers if claim won't be closed down before renewal

 

[er-minio]

Martyn, thanks for the clarification.

They didn’t provide anything at all. Not even their names or contact info.
Is that ok to do (strictly legal) if no one in injured?

 

[sparkplug]

I think

Sparkplug, apologies in advance if I'm in the wrong section.

It was as good a place as any to get the conversation started, but now that you've had a few replies I think I'll move it to the insurance section

 

[Wapping]

Whilst there was no injury, there was apparently, damage.

If owing to the presence of a motor vehicle on a road, injury or damage is caused to a third party…..
then the drivers involved must…
Stop
Exchange names and addresses of the drivers of the vehicles,
Exchange names and addresses of the owners of the vehicle, (if different)
Exchange details of registration marks, and….

Quite why the driver / owner of the (damaged) vehicle refused to exchange even some basic details, nobody knows.

 

[hops]

When the time comes, he could always dispute their version of events and explain how they drifted and hit him… then wouldn't supply their details.

He could, but in the unlikely event they have a dashcam or there's some CCTV he then drops himself right in the crud and anything he says from then on is subject to doubt.

 

[Wapping]

I’m half betting that he hears nothing from the third party. The other half of me is betting that the next thing he hears, is that they were driving a McLaren, with MSO paintwork and want twenty large.

But hey, I could be wrong.

 

[er-minio]

Same bets here.

 

[fonderiadigitale]

Surely your friend is obliged to and should contact his own insurers giving them all details he has like time, location, anything about the vehicle and occupants he can remember plus documenting the fact that they refused to give their details and fekked off PDQ. Shirley?

that's exactly what I did

Not sure if it helps but when I had something similar and a renewal pending, I contacted prospective insurers to ask what their stance would be if, as I suspected. the claim would be settled with zero payout but not until a later date some months after renewal. I seem to recall the existing insurer said 6 months had to pass before the claim could be considered closed. ISTR existing insurer said it was tough 5h1t and I had to swallow the premium increase due to the pending claim. However, Direct Line gave me two prices - one for the claim pending and the other if claim settled at nil payout and explained how to claim it back when the claim closed some months hence. When the claim was closed at zero payout, I got written confirmation of that, sent it to DL and they paid me back the difference. Small amount of hassle but sorted out fairly quickly. So, check with different insurers if claim won't be closed down before renewal

thanks for clarifying this. insurance is due in two weeks and after I called them yes, the premium increases due to the pending claim and I didn't complain too much for the same reason. I hope my insurer (Lynbrook/First Underwriting) will do the same and if it's also zero payout, settle the difference.

If I have read it correctly, & I appreciate you are only passing on what you have been told, there is no mention of injury so neither party is obliged to provide insurance details. I fully appreciate most people do it as a matter of course, but it is not a legal obligation.
Section 170 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 states:
If owing to the presence of a motor vehicle on a road, injury or damage is caused to a third party or animal, (which for the purpose of the act is defined as any horse, cattle, ass, mule, sheep, pig, goat or dog), then the drivers involved must…
Stop
Exchange names and addresses of the drivers of the vehicles,
Exchange names and addresses of the owners of the vehicle, (if different)
Exchange details of registration marks, and….
In the case of injury, produce a valid certificate of insurance or security to any person with reasonable grounds to so require these details.
If the law is not complied with, then the drivers must report it at a police station or to a police officer, and must do so as soon as is reasonably practicable and, in any case, within 24 hours of the occurrence of the road traffic accident.

I was inclined to believe that in an accident on 2 wheels there's always a chance of injury (that may not be apparent at first at the site) so it would be better to exchange details in any case.
But yes, since i was on 2 wheels I would have thought that any decent human being would have asked if I was ok given I was on a motorbike.. yeah I know
Besides, I reported it to the police (via their website) and i have a protocol number for it now

 

[Martyn H]

Martyn, thanks for the clarification.

They didn’t provide anything at all. Not even their names or contact info.
Is that ok to do (strictly legal) if no one in injured?

As Wapping has pointed out the first conditions apply. It's just the provision of insurance details which is not a legal requirement, where there is no personal injury to anyone other than the driver of that vehicle. Section 170, RTA 1988.

 

[Fullchat]

Just to add some further detail.
Sec 170 does not require you to provide insurance details for a non injury collision. It became a real pain to make a claim thus forcing an injured party to instigate a civil claim.
Sec 154 was enacted which does require a person against who a claim is made to provide insurance details.

 

[Rushy]

Yep , similar thing happened to me once in the car . A car came around the corner slightly on my side on a sharp bend , narrow country lane . I was as tight to a hedge as I could possibly go and he clipped my mirror. I stopped at the first available safe spot , he had turned around came up behind me and was aggressive from the get go , intimidating, verbally abusIve and resorting to the sort of name calling I haven’t heard since the playground. It was was late, dark and nobody else around plus he had a mate with him , I was quite fearful at one point .
Refused to give his details as it was my fault apparently , I offered to give mine but I would need his too which again he refused so in turn I wouldn’t give mine……. Took his plate down and reported it to my insurers who told me his car wasnt insured. Never heard anything….