Thank you
More Zumo woes: what about the new update?
- Thread starter er-minio
- Start date
That's the way I use mine too
Just popping in here on one of my infrequent visits to the forum - to post an update.
It is 2 years since I first reported this problem to Garmin. I have been told that the solution may take some time and that it is with the team in America who are working on it. We were in communication at least once a month during this time.
Nothing came of that when the person I was communicating with at Tech Support said that they were hoping for an update from USA. 'She' would report back when she returned from holiday. Nothing came of that on her return. I let it go a few more weeks and raised the issue again. I got a reply from another member of the team - who said that my usual contact was away on 'annual leave'. (!!). I wrote again last month, and have had no reply.
My feeling is that I am being strung along and that nothing is being done about it. It really might help if more people complained.
I think I was the first to raise this issue and have carried out a lot of tests to isolate it and to make it happen.
I can alway get the XT to display RUT behaviour if earlier on in the route, I skip a route point - Skipping a point makes the XT recalculate the entire route - which may be the same as the original, or it may have slight differences. That is not an issue. What is an issue is that it seems to change the nature of the route - and it behaves differently from then on. In a couple of significant ways.
Instead of routing you to the next route point, it seems to be trying to get you to go back to the nearest point of its re-calculated route. If it has just asked you to turn back, then that point is almost certainly behind you. Ignore it and repeat. I have evidence that I sent to Garmin that suggests that this is the case - which you can test for yourself by disabling u-turns. It then has to use side roads to get you to go back the other way. Those off road detours then become part of the Zumos route back to where you first deviated.
Completely different behaviour can be observed by missing a shaping or via point after 'Skip' has been used.
Normally you can expect the XT to find another way to reach the missed route point and it won't give up on that behaviour. However IF you join the magenta line after missing out one or more shaping points, then the XT will route ahead, and all is OK. If you miss a Via point, the XT will alwyas navigate you back to it.
However - if you have previously Skipped a route point - this doesn't happen in the same way. In my tests, If the Zumo spots the magenta line after failing to take the route to a shaping point - it plots a route to join the magenta line and the shaping point is deleted from the map.
The same happens if you do not follow the instructions that lead to a Via Point.
But the solution to both of these was discovered when I found out that routes that have been built using the XT screen will never display this behaviour after skip has been pressed. I had gone out armed with a few tests to carry out on a 3 hour ride. Knowing that I might have to rebuild the route, I made it entirely of waypoints - so that they were saved in Favourites. So having observed the results of my first test (which failed, but which had altered the route), I stopped the route before reaching the next route point and rebuilt it at the side of the road using the same route points from Favourites. I skipped the first point ahead so that the route recalculated, and continued on my way. Deviated as normal but as soon as I did so, the route immediately recalculated to the next route point - in the direction I was going.
I checked this out a few times on different routes where I knew exaclty what normally happens. Routes built on the XT have never displayed RUT behaviour.
And this led to the comment - not by me, but others were following my progress on ZumoUserForums and they were able to provide themissing information that I had missed - that there was a difference between XT saved routes and Imported routes (eg from Basecamp, MRA, etc).
The computer based solution developed by FrankB also dovetailed into this.
And with all of my tests results available, I was in a unique position to verify that this suggestion actually worked.
@John Armstrong Listed this set of instructions which can be done on the XT screen very easily. This is the method that I prefer, as it doesn't require being hooked up to a computer, and it is easier to pass on to someone else when you give them a gpx file. But I have an amendment to make to John's list (reproduced below).
At point 8. Save the route, but you have the opportunity to give it a new name. The XT (I gives a name which includes the date). Either keep that name or create your own. The original route then remains intact, and you can recognise which one you have loaded fromt he different names.
But there is a key bit of info - when you resave the route, the XT adds a new point to the start of the route. Your current position becomes the start and the original start becomes the second point in the route. This can create two possible issues depending on where you were when you carried out this little trick.
If you are planning a long tour and you are at home, then when the route is loaded it will have to calculate a route to the original start. Which it may find impossible. If you do this at the start of the day, sitting on your bike, then the satnav fix of your location may not be accurate enough, so you may end up missing the start point when you set off.
My solution to both of these is:
1) Load the route, and resave it the night before. You are then close enough to your start point for it not to be an issue.
2) Always select the original start point when asked to select your next destination - which will be the third entry in the list, after Closest Entry Point.
I have tested this solution throroughly on three separate routes where RUT behaviour always happened. It works perfectly. In fact it works better than that. At the point where I deviated fromt he route, I was expecting it to turn me back to join the motorway. That was the faster way, and it was what it had always done before. Also - I had checked at home by simulating the bikes position and asking it to calculate a route to my next route point -the Zumo had chosen to take the motorway route. IT wasn't until 3 miles later that the balance changed and the XT started to calculate the route that I intend to ride.
But with this 'fixed' and saved route, as soon as I turned on to the road that lead to the 'tipping point' 3 miles ahead, it decided that was the way to go.
In this respect, the XT was behaving better than the 590 or 595 ever did.
If you haven't yet complained to Garmin Support, and you feel able, then please do so - by phone for preference. If you report it by email it takes a month while 3 or 4 different support officers mis-read / mis-understand your email / pick up on a couple of words - and then send you links which are completely irrelevant. I've been in contact for 2 years about it, and I am getting nowhere. They led me to believe that it was being worked on. I have no way of knowing whether I was just being fobbed off, but the thought occurred to me.
Don't call it RUT behaviour. That was a name that I coined so that I had a name to use. The behaviour reminded me of an old vinyl record where the stylus of the player kept getting pushed back into the adjacent groove, so it repeated the same thing over and over again. 'Stuck record' and 'Getting stuck in a rut' were phrases that popped into my head. I thought it convenient that 'rut' it could also be an acronym for Repeated U Turn. But Repeated U Turns aren't the issue and saying that will mislead the support staff. It will suggest a missed via point; missing the start point; misplaced route points etc.
It only happens on routes that you are navigating (cannot be simulated).
It happens when the Zumo has recalculated the route - Always if Skip has been pressed.
Pressing skip seems to change the behaviour of the routing - so that it seems to head for the closest point on the route - which is usually behind you.
It will keep doing this until you are very close to rejoining the magenta line. Even to the point of taking you on a 29 mile route back the way you have been to reach a route point less than 2 miles ahead.
It is nearly always accompanied by a broken track log in Active logs. A new section is started at each U turn request !
If you want evidence of any of the above PM me.
It is 2 years since I first reported this problem to Garmin. I have been told that the solution may take some time and that it is with the team in America who are working on it. We were in communication at least once a month during this time.
Nothing came of that when the person I was communicating with at Tech Support said that they were hoping for an update from USA. 'She' would report back when she returned from holiday. Nothing came of that on her return. I let it go a few more weeks and raised the issue again. I got a reply from another member of the team - who said that my usual contact was away on 'annual leave'. (!!). I wrote again last month, and have had no reply.
My feeling is that I am being strung along and that nothing is being done about it. It really might help if more people complained.
I think I was the first to raise this issue and have carried out a lot of tests to isolate it and to make it happen.
I can alway get the XT to display RUT behaviour if earlier on in the route, I skip a route point - Skipping a point makes the XT recalculate the entire route - which may be the same as the original, or it may have slight differences. That is not an issue. What is an issue is that it seems to change the nature of the route - and it behaves differently from then on. In a couple of significant ways.
Instead of routing you to the next route point, it seems to be trying to get you to go back to the nearest point of its re-calculated route. If it has just asked you to turn back, then that point is almost certainly behind you. Ignore it and repeat. I have evidence that I sent to Garmin that suggests that this is the case - which you can test for yourself by disabling u-turns. It then has to use side roads to get you to go back the other way. Those off road detours then become part of the Zumos route back to where you first deviated.
Completely different behaviour can be observed by missing a shaping or via point after 'Skip' has been used.
Normally you can expect the XT to find another way to reach the missed route point and it won't give up on that behaviour. However IF you join the magenta line after missing out one or more shaping points, then the XT will route ahead, and all is OK. If you miss a Via point, the XT will alwyas navigate you back to it.
However - if you have previously Skipped a route point - this doesn't happen in the same way. In my tests, If the Zumo spots the magenta line after failing to take the route to a shaping point - it plots a route to join the magenta line and the shaping point is deleted from the map.
The same happens if you do not follow the instructions that lead to a Via Point.
But the solution to both of these was discovered when I found out that routes that have been built using the XT screen will never display this behaviour after skip has been pressed. I had gone out armed with a few tests to carry out on a 3 hour ride. Knowing that I might have to rebuild the route, I made it entirely of waypoints - so that they were saved in Favourites. So having observed the results of my first test (which failed, but which had altered the route), I stopped the route before reaching the next route point and rebuilt it at the side of the road using the same route points from Favourites. I skipped the first point ahead so that the route recalculated, and continued on my way. Deviated as normal but as soon as I did so, the route immediately recalculated to the next route point - in the direction I was going.
I checked this out a few times on different routes where I knew exaclty what normally happens. Routes built on the XT have never displayed RUT behaviour.
And this led to the comment - not by me, but others were following my progress on ZumoUserForums and they were able to provide themissing information that I had missed - that there was a difference between XT saved routes and Imported routes (eg from Basecamp, MRA, etc).
The computer based solution developed by FrankB also dovetailed into this.
And with all of my tests results available, I was in a unique position to verify that this suggestion actually worked.
@John Armstrong Listed this set of instructions which can be done on the XT screen very easily. This is the method that I prefer, as it doesn't require being hooked up to a computer, and it is easier to pass on to someone else when you give them a gpx file. But I have an amendment to make to John's list (reproduced below).
At point 8. Save the route, but you have the opportunity to give it a new name. The XT (I gives a name which includes the date). Either keep that name or create your own. The original route then remains intact, and you can recognise which one you have loaded fromt he different names.
But there is a key bit of info - when you resave the route, the XT adds a new point to the start of the route. Your current position becomes the start and the original start becomes the second point in the route. This can create two possible issues depending on where you were when you carried out this little trick.
If you are planning a long tour and you are at home, then when the route is loaded it will have to calculate a route to the original start. Which it may find impossible. If you do this at the start of the day, sitting on your bike, then the satnav fix of your location may not be accurate enough, so you may end up missing the start point when you set off.
My solution to both of these is:
1) Load the route, and resave it the night before. You are then close enough to your start point for it not to be an issue.
2) Always select the original start point when asked to select your next destination - which will be the third entry in the list, after Closest Entry Point.
I have tested this solution throroughly on three separate routes where RUT behaviour always happened. It works perfectly. In fact it works better than that. At the point where I deviated fromt he route, I was expecting it to turn me back to join the motorway. That was the faster way, and it was what it had always done before. Also - I had checked at home by simulating the bikes position and asking it to calculate a route to my next route point -the Zumo had chosen to take the motorway route. IT wasn't until 3 miles later that the balance changed and the XT started to calculate the route that I intend to ride.
But with this 'fixed' and saved route, as soon as I turned on to the road that lead to the 'tipping point' 3 miles ahead, it decided that was the way to go.
In this respect, the XT was behaving better than the 590 or 595 ever did.
If you haven't yet complained to Garmin Support, and you feel able, then please do so - by phone for preference. If you report it by email it takes a month while 3 or 4 different support officers mis-read / mis-understand your email / pick up on a couple of words - and then send you links which are completely irrelevant. I've been in contact for 2 years about it, and I am getting nowhere. They led me to believe that it was being worked on. I have no way of knowing whether I was just being fobbed off, but the thought occurred to me.
Don't call it RUT behaviour. That was a name that I coined so that I had a name to use. The behaviour reminded me of an old vinyl record where the stylus of the player kept getting pushed back into the adjacent groove, so it repeated the same thing over and over again. 'Stuck record' and 'Getting stuck in a rut' were phrases that popped into my head. I thought it convenient that 'rut' it could also be an acronym for Repeated U Turn. But Repeated U Turns aren't the issue and saying that will mislead the support staff. It will suggest a missed via point; missing the start point; misplaced route points etc.
It only happens on routes that you are navigating (cannot be simulated).
It happens when the Zumo has recalculated the route - Always if Skip has been pressed.
Pressing skip seems to change the behaviour of the routing - so that it seems to head for the closest point on the route - which is usually behind you.
It will keep doing this until you are very close to rejoining the magenta line. Even to the point of taking you on a 29 mile route back the way you have been to reach a route point less than 2 miles ahead.
It is nearly always accompanied by a broken track log in Active logs. A new section is started at each U turn request !
If you want evidence of any of the above PM me.
Thank you for all your work on identifying this issue and the circumstances that cause it to occur. I tend to load routes now and perform the John Armstrong "fix" as a matter of course on new routes and enjoy using the XT now allong with my Zumo 340 and 390 I use on another bike. I did send an E-mail to Garmin some time ago highlighting this issue and the Faster roads v's faster time point to point routing differences compared to older units. I suspect that they are done with the XT and won't apply any fixes through firmware, it would be interesting to see if the XT2 features the same quirks. I think after using Garmin motorcycle navigation products since 2004 (Streetpilot 2610) my next bike nav will be a ruggedised phone.
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