10 Days

Hello everybody,

I've been stalking round these parts for some time now so I know how things go. We as a group of a maximum to about 8 have going across and playing in the West of the Alps for many years now, having enjoyed the Vosges, Black Forrest, Hartz Mountains, Route Napoleon, and the RDGA. I'm more than happy to plan our own routes on minimal advice normally by joining the squiggly roads together and talking about them afterwards makes a great holiday.

Here's the issue, some of our number want to base in Garmisch this year but it's a slap to get to. So I was wondering if a circular route around the outside of Switzerland, taking in Garmisch; would be a more enjoyable option.

Here's the question you have 10 days beginning 2nd week of May, what would you do/go ?. (Please we don't want to go to the Atlas mountains )

I'll now stand back and take the flack P taking.

If you are used to planning routes, know how things go, happy to plan on minimal advice.... You'll manage between you and your mates to work something out for your 10 days away by joining up the squiggly lines.

Harsh









but fair.

If you are going in early May then in addition to the detailed advice and wise words from Wapping it might be an idea to do some research into what passes are likely to be open in May. Otherwise you might join up squiggly lines that you can't actually use.

John

Hi, here is a guide to passes - Open / Closed http://www.alpen-journal.de/alpenservice/alpenpaesse.html

You will need to check these as early as mid May..

Wapping thank you for taking the time to read the post.

The question wasn't wether we will manage, of course we will manage. We've been managing of 25 years now.

The question was dear Wapping what would you do ? or go ?.

Sorry I didn't make it clear enough for you the first time, I suppose the opportunity for some of your blunt sarcasm got the better of you.

Thanks for the link mcinib, I know on average most of the high passes will be open by May, all are scheduled to be but the weather is always variable. We've played snowballs in the last week of July before and that was in Andora !!

I also think the advantage of not planning too much allows flexibility and removes the pressure from having to be in set place at a set time. Last year we were caught out on the repair works being carried on the RDGA after the winter damage. The great thing is that all the squiggly roads made by mountains and rivers are nearly always worth doing a second time.

What would I do?

I would engage my / my 7 mates' 25 years of experience (and confidence) to plan my 10 days of holiday, riding the squiggly lines of Swiss roads and passes in May 2014. I would have in mind that planning too much was not necessary as I didn't want to be tied to a set plan or timetable; being flexible and not tied to being in a particular place at a certain time or day, drawing on my experience that chunks of the RDGA were shut last year (due to winter damage) catching me out.

Would I go?

If May 2014 suited my (and my 7 mates') plans to ride the squiggly lines of Switzerland over the high passes that I knew would be open; then the answer would of course be 'yes'. If the answer was 'no', then I wouldn't. I know I can't do it this May as I have other plans already in place.

What sources would I use to (not) plan my 10 days away in Switzerland with my 7 mates?

My assorted maps of squiggly lines, my copy of John Herrmann's bible of Alpine biking, my Michelin book of 'Moto Alps', the Alpine roads website, Rasher's (and others) ride reports on UKGSer, my GPS biker friendly block of suggested routes (lovingly created to answer questions just like this) available via UKGSer, the assorted Garmische centric threads and posts on UKGSer, it being a popular bikers' Mecca verging on religious significance. I think that lot would just about do me to (not) plan my holiday.

Now, what is it that you and your 7 mates really want to know?

If it's whether you need a Swiss vignette, or whether they are a rip-off, infringement of bikers' rights, illegal under EU law and whether you should (or shouldn't) stick them on your bike, you'll find the answer within UKGSer's pages. That's a certainty.

alecg said:

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Thanks for the link mcinib, I know on average most of the high passes will be open by May, all are scheduled to be but the weather is always variable. We've played snowballs in the last week of July before and that was in Andora !!..................

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I think you will find many passes do not open that early. Many are not often open until June. If the weather is kind and they have not had lots of snow this winter they might be open but unless you come to the southern Alps you will need to keep an eye on which passes might be open. Here on the southern side of the Alps passes do usually open by the beginning of May. Elsewhere it is usually later with roads like the Stelvio not opening before June.

And snow in high summer is not at all unusual everywhere in the Alps. We get, on average, one day a month throughout the summer when roads like the Grossglockner are closed due to snow

Enjoy your trip, at that time of year your ideas on being flexible will come in handy. Having said that May can be a fantastic time , if passes are open you will ride between high snow banks and the views are impressive. I always enjoy my early season rides on the 'Glockner, Usually I go on opening day, they aim for 1st May but several times now it has been late April.


John

It was just a discussion point to draw on the vast and varied experience to see, if given the option;what would the majority of site users do. Position yourself to a set location taking 3 days there and back possibly 4 if more leisurely pace, or maintain the momentum of a touring holiday passing through the previous region. I hate camping and motorcycling, not an age thing; always have done others love it. Some folk like to travel out from set point each day and return. Some like to keep moving on and cover more new ground. Horses for courses, I think is the expression best suited.

I like the point of the vignette I had never considered it a rip off or infringement, after all it's purely a toll system pre-paid. We all seem to accept the "fine" of French autoroutes for the purpose. This year however our intention is not to go into Switzerland so the 33euro cost won't be an issue. The fixing never has either each year placed into a clear bags then taped firmly to the screen, this in about 7 trips has never caused a problem including being stopped 3 times, on revenue checks I mean traffic patrols. Maybe we have just been very lucky or being polite pays dividends. If you follow the letter of the law the only place you can legally stick them on a bike is the frame as I believe it has to be a part which cannot be removed or dismantled !!.

I can't see how EU law can affect the argument as I believe that Switzerland isn't, hasn't and doesn't want to be in the Union. A position many think we should follow but thats a different argument.

I am aware of the various detail sources you have listed including, introducing young Rasher himself to the the initial book of Hermann on a different site. Though I prefer the style of Western Europe rather than Alps and Beyond which can cause people to travel more to tick the list than enjoy the ride, don't you think ?

Grey one, sorry for not replying above went of thread a little. It's nice to have a little direct knowledge from time to time, thank you; normally from Alpineroads.com You're lucky to be where you are having enjoyed Austria on a number of occasions the roads are great especially many of the lower passes often quieter but still stunning such as Nockelmstrasse. However road traffic legislation is particularly well enforced when displaying a GB registration Having owned a RoadKing for a while you appreciate these lower roads and wonder why you overlooked them for so long, hence how we ventured to the Vosges and Hartz areas. It was a mid life crisis but thoroughly recommend everyone to ride one once, remembering they are not motorcycles but Harley Davidson's, they are not the same thing.

alecg said:

Grey one, sorry for not replying above went of thread a little. It's nice to have a little direct knowledge from time to time, thank you; normally from Alpineroads.com You're lucky to be where you are having enjoyed Austria on a number of occasions the roads are great especially many of the lower passes often quieter but still stunning such as Nockelmstrasse. However road traffic legislation is particularly well enforced when displaying a GB registration Having owned a RoadKing for a while you appreciate these lower roads and wonder why you overlooked them for so long, hence how we ventured to the Vosges and Hartz areas. It was a mid life crisis but thoroughly recommend everyone to ride one once, remembering they are not motorcycles but Harley Davidson's, they are not the same thing.

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Always happy to share what I know, I know our region pretty well now and get regular reports from other parts of the Alps. So I hope my reports on my region (Carinthia/northern Italy & parts of Slovenia) are helpful.

The Nockalmstrasse is indeed a fine road not as high as some but does go to 2,000 metres if such things matter. Many of our guests say it is the best road they have ever ridden, most ride it several times whilst staying with us.

As for enforcement,in six summers here I have been stopped once. Then I was leading a small group and the police were after a similar sized Dutch group who had been playing the fool in towns, so just a quick on your way when they confirmed we were not the group they were after. Other than that our guests don't have problems, a few get caught coming into towns, mainly it has to be said because they don't take on board the rule about the 50 kph limit being from the town name sign. If you are polite to the police the fines are usually low here. If you are riding like a complete idiot or are rude they might not be so low!

We get on well with the local police, they don't go out of their way to catch people. On two occasions, after a guest has come off and been taken to the regional capital for treatment, a local copper has collected the riders belongings from the police station nearest to the scene and brought them back here. They don't have to do that but like most locals they appreciate the boost to the economy our bikers bring. For this very reason they don't hassle bikers. On most rides from here you won't see them anyway and as long as you play the game in towns there should be no problems. Apart from on the autobahn, there is only one fixed camera around here.

John

I have to admit one year we had excessive attention drawn to some of our group. They were new to the European experience and got carried away on an Austrian autoroute confusing with German legislation. We came over the brow of the hill thinking they had had an accident with a bright purple Mitsubushi Gallant which turned out to be a police "provida" car, long before they appeared here. The amusing aspect was the fine was so high it stripped one of the guys out but after much haggling they reduced his speed on the ticket to reduce the fine. What nice chaps.

Anyway back home a few weeks pass and he receives a letter with an Austrian crest etc. can't understand a word of it so pays to ,get it translated. This cost much more than the original fine. Only to discover the letter basically said"You drive to fast we don't want you in our country,thank you" It's framed in his hallway, and yes we have been back but older and slower.

alecg said:

I have to admit one year we had excessive attention drawn to some of our group. They were new to the European experience and got carried away on an Austrian autoroute confusing with German legislation. We came over the brow of the hill thinking they had had an accident with a bright purple Mitsubushi Gallant which turned out to be a police "provida" car, long before they appeared here. The amusing aspect was the fine was so high it stripped one of the guys out but after much haggling they reduced his speed on the ticket to reduce the fine. What nice chaps.

Anyway back home a few weeks pass and he receives a letter with an Austrian crest etc. can't understand a word of it so pays to ,get it translated. This cost much more than the original fine. Only to discover the letter basically said"You drive to fast we don't want you in our country,thank you" It's framed in his hallway, and yes we have been back but older and slower.

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Yes the autobahn rules are different, no de restricted zones here. 130 kph overall limit but lots of lower ones, most tunnels at 100 and almost all have cameras. We get a nice little letter with a pay slip to take to the bank, no points though. The rule of thumb here is 30kph over the limit is as far as you go without big fines, mostly our guests get charged 25 Euros but we had 3 guys last summer got a 30 Euros group fine so just 10 euros each! As you say nice chaps, what some people don't get is that unlike Britain the police here can, within reason, adjust the fine to the circumstances. Being polite and apologetic will reduce the cost.

John

These bods seem happy to answer specific questions about Switzerland: http://motorbiking-in-switzerland.com

This is a very good map to get: http://swisstravelcenter.ch/shop/produkt-detail/4877?t=aGFsbHdhZw==&lang=EN It's good as, besides providing 24 individual and clear route cards, it marks all the suggested routes (squiggly lines) onto the country as a whole. In other words, it makes to very easy to work out how to go from A to F via C, E, B and D. This may well be helpful if you plan to cut back and forth across the country. I picked my copy up in Switzerland but it's easy enough to order online. The scale is pretty good at 1:275000

If you are looking to circle / cut back to and fro across Switzerland, this might be useful: http://www.myswitzerland.com/en-gb/...rbike-tours-route-descriptions.html?iPadCover If nothing else, it's a nicely presented site

Pick up your free (good but basic) map of suggested routes here: http://fim-europe.com/index.php/touring/european-maps

Wapping, thank you for the effort and the links, they're all bookmarked and saved for future reference/opportunities. Indeed having used the Suisse maps for the South Tyrol/Dolomites as they were much better than even the Michellin let alone the Italia variants we picked up locally. it's not the intention to go into Switzerland itself. The passes are generally higher and as has been pointed out, most likely not to be open. However by circumventing around we get to enjoy the lower passes and keep moving, therefore the mileage to Austria isn't a problem. Also by going early in the season we will generally have more success at finding lodgings un-announced. The advantage of being of an older nature is we've all travelled about a bit so don't mind the occasional rough stop. If the beers cold, water hot and sheets clean we're fairly happy.