Which foot do you use??

Jaq

Jaq

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Ok, here's one for you lot......
I'm doing my Advanced (IAM) Course at the moment and have a query to throw at you all.....:eek:
When braking to a stop, I put my left foot down first, as still using both brakes, and when bike has ground to a halt then change feet so can select neutral gear...so whilst waiting to pull away again I'm sat there with my right foot on the ground.....
Still with me?.....:)
Well, my IAM Observer says this isn't really good practice and I should put my right foot down first, after slowing down with both brakes and finally stopping with the front one, leaving my left foot free to get into neutral, otherwise I'm dancing around changing feet.....
Trouble is....unless there's a camber,( which being vertically challenged I always have to take into consideration every time I stop)...it feels alot more natural for me to use my left foot......:(
So, what do you think? Answers on the back of a postage stamp please..:D
 
Jaq said:
Ok, here's one for you lot......
I'm doing my Advanced (IAM) Course at the moment and have a query to throw at you all.....:eek:
When braking to a stop, I put my left foot down first, as still using both brakes, and when bike has ground to a halt then change feet so can select neutral gear...so whilst waiting to pull away again I'm sat there with my right foot on the ground.....
Still with me?.....:)
Well, my IAM Observer says this isn't really good practice and I should put my right foot down first, after slowing down with both brakes and finally stopping with the front one, leaving my left foot free to get into neutral, otherwise I'm dancing around changing feet.....
Trouble is....unless there's a camber,( which being vertically challenged I always have to take into consideration every time I stop)...it feels alot more natural for me to use my left foot......:(
So, what do you think? Answers on the back of a postage stamp please..:D
Click to expand...

The Hendon Shuffle? ;)
 
jaq! wot you are doing is the affectionally known hendon shuffle and is the best way to keep control, as both brakes are used to control and the clutch is also operated to ensure a smooth pull up.

i use it all the time and as an IAM observer it is the method i prefer to see..:rob

but the truth of the matter is it is whatever suits you will be fine , there is no real wrong way of doing it.. as long as you are in control..
and dont forget to feather your back brake for better slow speed control...

have fun out there..:thumb
 
I always stop on my right foot - more habit then anything, though I'm always aware of the chance of a camber on the left side. I am trying now to stop more using my rear brake and then putting my left foot down.
 
I definitely stop with the left foot down first and then the suffle for neutral and back to left.....never really thought about it until now, but interesting to be aware because I would like to my advanced riding test next year....
 
Advanced test suggested I change to right foot down, been doing this for six years now and a much better way of doing it combined with feathering the front brake only to a stop. It did take a lot of effort to change though as had been doing it the other way since 1974. Yes - watch the camber as there are rare occasions when the left down is the better choice. I have been recently plagued with a painful right knee and put this down to propping up my GS at not quite the best angle. I'm now putting more thought into not stressing the knee by trying to have a straight down leg with no side force against it.
 
Jaq - as someone who was originally taught to do the 'Hendon Shuffle' (left foot down) I later was taught the right foot down technique which I now use *almost* every time.

I would say that it is unnatural at first but well worth giving it a go for a good few weeks even if it's just to confirm that you prefer what you were doing before.

As has been said there is no 'right' and 'wrong' here - it's what works for you.

I don't think I'm any more or less smooth with either technique. Probably a bit smoother with right foot down but that's just because I do it 99% of the time.
 
You'll find the reason given as to why you should use the rear brake to slow to a stop over the final few feet was/is to help prevent a front wheel skid/slip.

Particularily at junctions etc., where oil gets dropped by vehicles sat there waiting for lights to change etc. before pulling away...

A rear wheel skid/slip is far easier to control in those slow speed circumstances..
 
When I was taught my instructor always suggested that you should as far as possible sit with your left foot down. His reasoning was that if it slipped you fall towards the kerb (most times) and therefore be safer than falling towards oncoming traffic.

This is all very well on a flat road but no use if you are on a hill in which case the Hendon shuffle applies:D
 
Jaq, for what it's worth, I always stop left foot down.

Slowing the bike down from speed, you always use a 60/40 front/rear split on the brakes. Some people will tell you 70/30. My argument to that is show me the difference. Having drained off the speed for the hazard, you are now at the point of wanting to stop. This is usually at a point where lots of other vehicles have stopped and waited, eg. stop lines at junctions, traffic lights etc. All the thousands of other vehicles have left rubber deposits, engine oil drips, diesel spills etc in minute quantities at these points, gradually creating a potentially slippery environment.

At this point, you are in the realm of tyre grip trade-off. Your tyres can give 100% to grip. If you are trying to steer grip is being reduced. If you are trying to brake, grip is being reduced, as the tyres try to accomplish all the things you are asking them to do. Lose the grip of the front tyre, a very easy thing to do in a slippery environment, and you lose the bike. It is much better in these situations to allow the front tyre to grip, so in the last few yards of stopping, release the front bike and bring the bike to a halt on the back brake and, as you disengage drive with the clutch, put your left foot down. Then, if you wish, for longer stops, right foot down, left foot up, into neutral, left foot back down and right foot up covering the brake again, the Hendon Shuffle, so called because this is how police motorcyclists are trained and I think few people would argue that traffic motorcyclists don't know what they are doing.

For moving off again, right foot down, left foot up, engage gear, left foot back down, right foot up covering the brake as you move off.

I find it very strange that an IAM observer would advocate pulling the bike to a halt on the front brake as the stopping zones are well known to be hazardous places. While I am not an IAM observer or instructor, I would be looking for a second opinion on this if I were you.

Cue all the IAM observers to tell me how wrong I am. :hide

HTH
 
Do it "their" way while you are being tested. Once you have your ticket revert to the way you feel most comfortable.
 
TheWarlock said:
Jaq, for what it's worth, I always stop left foot down.

Slowing the bike down from speed, you always use a 60/40 front/rear split on the brakes. Some people will tell you 70/30. My argument to that is show me the difference. Having drained off the speed for the hazard, you are now at the point of wanting to stop. This is usually at a point where lots of other vehicles have stopped and waited, eg. stop lines at junctions, traffic lights etc. All the thousands of other vehicles have left rubber deposits, engine oil drips, diesel spills etc in minute quantities at these points, gradually creating a potentially slippery environment.

At this point, you are in the realm of tyre grip trade-off. Your tyres can give 100% to grip. If you are trying to steer grip is being reduced. If you are trying to brake, grip is being reduced, as the tyres try to accomplish all the things you are asking them to do. Lose the grip of the front tyre, a very easy thing to do in a slippery environment, and you lose the bike. It is much better in these situations to allow the front tyre to grip, so in the last few yards of stopping, release the front bike and bring the bike to a halt on the back brake and, as you disengage drive with the clutch, put your left foot down. Then, if you wish, for longer stops, right foot down, left foot up, into neutral, left foot back down and right foot up covering the brake again, the Hendon Shuffle, so called because this is how police motorcyclists are trained and I think few people would argue that traffic motorcyclists don't know what they are doing.

For moving off again, right foot down, left foot up, engage gear, left foot back down, right foot up covering the brake as you move off.

I find it very strange that an IAM observer would advocate pulling the bike to a halt on the front brake as the stopping zones are well known to be hazardous places. While I am not an IAM observer or instructor, I would be looking for a second opinion on this if I were you.

Cue all the IAM observers to tell me how wrong I am. :hide

HTH
Click to expand...

Spot on with that explaination and I was Police trained.:clap
 
David Hunn said:
Do it "their" way while you are being tested. Once you have your ticket revert to the way you feel most comfortable.
Click to expand...

:thumb

but do learn both ways.

As for 'stopping zones are hazardous', well ..er.. what can I say. Ten years of stopping right foot down, riding all year round in all weather conditions and I've never been the victim of these vicious, treacherous pieces of tarmac. OK, if it's icy I might use both feet but let's get our risks into perspective.

I can put both feet down so cambers are rarely an issue for me. I think this will be much more of a factor for Jaq. On the same stretch of road in the same conditions, my risk may well be different to yours. Never be afraid to learn a new technique as it may help you (of course it might not) and yes, if you are being assessed on it then make sure you jump through the right hoops so they can tick the right boxes.

These are techniques - nothing more and nothing less. There's (thankfully) no law forcing you do to one or the other. You decide which is safest for you and ignore anyone who tells you that you are doing it 'wrong' (unless they are examining you at the time :) )
 
one size does not fit all

i teach that the Hendon Shuffle method is generally* the best.
but the point is that you are in full control** all the time.
so generally that means Hendon Shuffle.
but not all the time - e.g; adverse camber, high wind, full load +pillion, when i for one see balance is the biggest hazard***.

so, generally Hendon Shuffle / but think, prioritise and decide which is best for that specific situation.
and if challenged about it - i would argue / explain that point with any Tester, Examiner or Observer.:p

the emphasis of this Advanced stuff is and what any Qualified Observer is looking for is....safety :rolleyes:
- so if in doubt, i ask myself;

is this safe / the safest way to deal with the hazard?

* generally = what you do most of the time / habitually / as a "rule of thumb".
** "full control" = one of the mainstays of Advanced Riding.
*** Hazard = anything that contains an element of actual or potential danger.

Mods - perhaps move this to the Rider Training section? - its a (very) F.A.Q. from people training for an Advanced test.:nenau
 
Both feet if possible? IAMers, what's your slant on that?
For me, If short stop, leave in gear both feet down, if longer, neutral select 1st when ready to go :)
 
I got a bit confused by this initially too! What your observer failed to mention to you is the whole story. At least this is what seems to work for me :D

On a recent Bikesafe I was reminded how the right foot down thing will work. It's to do with braking in general. THis is the bit I forgot but remembered the right foot down thing .. and hence I was getting into all sorts of trouble trying to make it work.

THe whole roadcraft thing is about Forward Observation. What that means for braking is that instead of planning to stop at the give way line or the stop line at traffic light. You should be aiming to stop before. This sounds wrong right .. but bear with me. What you then do is power up again from that point slightly behind the give way/stop line towards the give way/stop line. If traffic has cleared or the signal has changed .. you continue to power up and move away. If they are still traffic. It is much easier to do that controlled stop and put your right foot down only.

I was always aiming to stop at the line. Which had two effects. (1) I stop fully but traffic starts to flow again :rolleyes: (2) I couldn't control the stop that well to do that right foot thing because stopping from 30mph seems hard and last minute.

I find that I use the left foot when I am not prepared for the stop. Whilst if I am looking and planning far enough, the right foot thing just becomes quite natural.

Not sure if this makes sense but I am sure some of our police GSers will come and correct it :D
 
Also ex Police rider and Instructor and always used and taught the hendon shuffle as it has been described, rear brake is the one you should be using during the latter stages of braking, smooth stop etc, balance and when stationary has the same effect as 'handbrake' on the car, it is not going to go anywhere, flat uphill or downhill.

Having said that went out on a BM test day when the new generation of boxers were launched a few years ago now, lots of different Forces there and a couple of them stopped with right foot down first with the bikes bouncing back and forth on the forks when they stopped-- lookes really strange.

As for the IAM (with all due respect) bunch of anoraks who take everything to the letter IMHO, the Roadcraft is guide and should be applied to the conditions, speed at the time, some of them cannot get the head round that and apply it rigidly no matter what is happening around them.

Anyway off to get dinner as at work on late shift, Bank Holiday which means double time ...still working for a couple more years

'Keep it smooth, keep it quick

Teejay
 
I.A.M

I was taught during my course left foot down first
also i would have selected first gear just before stopping
my left foot should remain down as the right foot would be operating the foot brake or parking brake
remain in gear clutch engaged
very rare i would have my right foot down
 
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