the RT vs GS thing

Mr K said:
I shall clarify: Had a RT courtesy bike while me GS was in for a service. Loved the toys. Couldn't get away with the fairing in anything other than motorway riding.

Handling-wise, it felt at first like it didn't want to tip into a corner and then like it was going to fall over.
It gave me absolutely no confidence in the front end and I was glad to hand it back before I crashed it.

Maybe if I hadn't been riding the GS for 7 years I wouldn't have been so critical?


:nenau
Click to expand...
I've ridden a number of 1200RT's and like you Chris, the first two handled like wheelbarrows. The first one was a half-day test ride of an early one. I'd bumped into a former colleague at the dealership, so we went for a ride. I was concerned that it was me so we swapped bikes. I followed him on his Blackbird and was relieved to see him struggling to keep it out of the scenery.

46551989_ASvmh-M.jpg


The next one I tried was as bad. It tipped into low speed corners and turns like a wheelbarrow with concrete blocks piled over the front wheel but at higher speeds didn't want to turn at all.

Later I tried one back-to back with a GT. This one handled like a dream. It seems that they are very easily compromised by incorrect tyre pressure and or tyre wear as those I've ridden since have all been sweet handling.

For me, I hated the 1200RT riding position, like the 1200GS, it's on rather than in (the low mirrors only seem to increase this sensation). I found that lower leg weather protection is nowhere as good as I'd expected (rather worse than my 1150GSA, I suspect that that has more to do with peg-cylinder positions as it seems to be as poor on the 1200GS).

Styling-wise, I think that the 1200RT is awful. The forward-slope of the angles give it a very nose-heavy look, almost drooping. It looks as though someone has parked it too close to a heat source and the plastics have sagged.

46551999_cKZiY-M.jpg
 
Handling is, for a large part, subjective. That's why discussions about tyres can have comments ranging from "Felt like the bike was on rails" to "Worst shite I've ever put on my bike" for the same tyres :D Nevertheless, there are obviously many elements that go up to make the non-subjective bit - like tyre pressures.

When I got my RT, it had Bridgestone BT021s fitted. I experienced the "sudden tip at low speeds" feeling that didn't engender confidence in the bike, though I have to say that the tyres were fine at all other speeds. I didn't fancy putting up with this 021 characteristic for 5000 miles or so, so I had them replaced at the first service with Michelin Pilot Road 3s. Thanks to Balderston's for giving me a very decent trade-in on my BT021s even though they didn't have to. Good guys :thumb2 I have found the Michelins to be a great tyre and I have never experienced the "tip-in" feeling with them.

For me, the R1200RT feels like a well-balanced, smooth and secure ride. The last time I went out on it was last weekend and I felt like I didn't want to stop riding! Bascially, what I'm trying to say is, like any bike, it's about whether it handles the way YOU like. :)
 
stanley said:
Ah..... IMHO they ARE better for luggage.

I mean the BIKE (thought that is what this thread is about) is better for luggage. It carries the weight lower down and closer to the centre of gravity of the bike. That's panniers, rack/top box, tankbag.

I'm sure that the panniers take more than my old Varios did..... and again, lower down= better balance= better for luggage :)

BTB, you seem to be comparing top box capacity with pannier usability too :nenau
RT's 49l top box is waaay bigger than a vario one!
Click to expand...

Er yes the BIKE......the bike handled worse in the first instance so adding weight to the panniers (both) did nothing to convince me that it it would handle luggage better than the GS. I cannot comment on the RTs top box as this particular bike did not have one fitted, but the bag I have does fit in the RH Vario on the GS and wouldnt fit the RH pannier of the RT. Just a fact, opinions differ about the bike in general and I am more than happy to accept that but I am only commenting on facts. ;)

Whilst I am at it the front felt awful.........no confidence whatsoever in the wet conditions I rode in (may just have been the rubber it was on though).
 
BeamishTripleBlack said:
Er yes the BIKE......the bike handled worse in the first instance so adding weight to the panniers (both) did nothing to convince me that it it would handle luggage better than the GS. I cannot comment on the RTs top box as this particular bike did not have one fitted, but the bag I have does fit in the RH Vario on the GS and wouldnt fit the RH pannier of the RT. Just a fact, opinions differ about the bike in general and I am more than happy to accept that but I am only commenting on facts. ;)

Whilst I am at it the front felt awful.........no confidence whatsoever in the wet conditions I rode in (may just have been the rubber it was on though).
Click to expand...

I guess it's what you're used to. I've done many more miles on an RT, be it 1100, 1150 & now 1200, & I'm much more confident in the rain than on my GSA, BUT I've only done 9K on the GS so I guess I'm not as "at home" as I am on the RT. As to luggage capacity, I think they're pretty much the same capacity wise, but the RT pannier is a different shape, so the bags aren't totally interchangeable.
 
My first proper experience of the 1200RT was when I hired one in 2006 for two weeks to ride around New Zealand (all on the South Island). I did 2000 miles on it two up with luggage and the handling was exceptional. I think it had Bridgestone BT020 tyres.

My twin cam had Metzeler Z6's which worked very well with the bike, as did the Avon Storm Ultra 2's I subsequently fitted.

Of the RT's I have ridden I certainly haven't experienced what MikeP felt, but Malc has summed things up very nicely.

As for luggage space, the GSA panniers on my GS are certainly more capacious than the RT panniers.
 
Well I've had my RT less than a week and am just about to set off to see a mate for a few days and put some miles on it.

But so far I love it.

The handling seems very good though not quite as flickable as my K1300S used to be.
 
Reference the luggage capacity, according to the BMW brochures I've got, the RT is 32 litres x 2 = 64.

The Varios expanded are 68 litres, so yes, they are bigger, but there isn't a great deal in it.
 
Well blow me....... I could (would) have sworn that the RT panniers were bigger! But those figures look right.... Vario's 50-68l and RT's 64l.

Have to admit that I rarely expanded them. Liked to really cram stuff in to keep the weight central. Always found the left one a bit awkward (even if expanded) though. The other problem that I had with luggage on the GS, was that the rear shock was easily overwhelmed.
I weigh 11+ stone, the missus 9+. (+ riding kit of course). When we were both on the GS, carrying camping kit for our European tours, the bike would handle like a chopper. Even on fully wound in preload, the rear spring would be almost flattened by this modest (imo) load. I ended up putting a Hyperpro spring on it. That really sorted this problem out; the bike could then carry proper loads and handled well. Only problem was that when on the bike solo and without luggage, the spring was too hard for me- it was like a hardtail! My kidneys couldn't take it!!

Here's a pic anyway...... everyone likes a picture :)

6426642811_e5013fb86a.jpg

Ready for our first tour..... Holland, France, Germany, (Nurbergring :)), Italy, etc

6438031729_6e9c838855.jpg


The GS was a great bike; I would, and probably will, have another one some day, but for now the RT is ticking the most boxes :)
 
Martyn H said:
Reference the luggage capacity, according to the BMW brochures I've got, the RT is 32 litres x 2 = 64.

The Varios expanded are 68 litres, so yes, they are bigger, but there isn't a great deal in it.
Click to expand...

The difference is even greater when you compare them with the capacity of the Adv panniers. I seem to recall their capacity is 82 litres.
 
stanley said:
The other problem that I had with luggage on the GS, was that the rear shock was easily overwhelmed.
I weigh 11+ stone, the missus 9+. (+ riding kit of course). When we were both on the GS, carrying camping kit for our European tours, the bike would handle like a chopper. Even on fully wound in preload, the rear spring would be almost flattened by this modest (imo) load. I ended up putting a Hyperpro spring on it. That really sorted this problem out; the bike could then carry proper loads and handled well. Only problem was that when on the bike solo and without luggage, the spring was too hard for me- it was like a hardtail! My kidneys couldn't take it!!
Click to expand...

This is why I bought an ESA equipped GS as it's much more firmly spring and damped. Mine is stiff enough fully loaded with pillion luggage, even when "making progress" provided the damping is on the "sport" setting ;)

We're hiring an RT in Los Angeles in May for a 16 day tour, so I wonder if it'll cope with the weight better than the GS without ESA? :confused:
 
Sven, I think it might be hard to find an RT without ESA!!

I decided that I wanted ESA on the RT.
Looked at several RTs and they all had ESA.

S'pose the USA might be different :nenau
 
MikeP said:
I've ridden a number of 1200RT's and like you Chris, the first two handled like wheelbarrows. The first one was a half-day test ride of an early one. I'd bumped into a former colleague at the dealership, so we went for a ride. I was concerned that it was me so we swapped bikes. I followed him on his Blackbird and was relieved to see him struggling to keep it out of the scenery.

46551989_ASvmh-M.jpg


The next one I tried was as bad. It tipped into low speed corners and turns like a wheelbarrow with concrete blocks piled over the front wheel but at higher speeds didn't want to turn at all.

Later I tried one back-to back with a GT. This one handled like a dream. It seems that they are very easily compromised by incorrect tyre pressure and or tyre wear as those I've ridden since have all been sweet handling.

For me, I hated the 1200RT riding position, like the 1200GS, it's on rather than in (the low mirrors only seem to increase this sensation). I found that lower leg weather protection is nowhere as good as I'd expected (rather worse than my 1150GSA, I suspect that that has more to do with peg-cylinder positions as it seems to be as poor on the 1200GS).

Styling-wise, I think that the 1200RT is awful. The forward-slope of the angles give it a very nose-heavy look, almost drooping. It looks as though someone has parked it too close to a heat source and the plastics have sagged.

46551999_cKZiY-M.jpg
Click to expand...

Not quite clear, do you or don't you like the RT?:type
 
I had my GS for 3 years covering 50K miles on it and loved every mile. However (see the corrosion post) I decided that I might like to change before this winter came along so had some test rides back in spring 2011. There were a couple of things that I noticed straight away, the tipping in on slow speed corners and the general lack of the grin factor.
However, in a fight between my heart and my head, the latter won on the basis that I do a lot of miles (business) so I need more comfort and better weather protection. Before you all jump in and say that the GS can be made better with aftermarket add ons I should add that my GS had a GSA screen, winglets and a Sargent seat.
Now, having completed some long business trips in all weather (not snow - yet) I can say that the RT does provide me with better weather protection and has more comfort than the GS on long trips. On the downside, it still doesn't give me the grin factor of the GS and despite it having a tendency to tip in like the demonstrator did, I've got used to that and can quite happily dance through traffic just like I did on the GS.
So, on balance, I'm pleased that I made the decision to go with the RT as it suits my needs the best; having said that, in 3 years time when I will be looking to trade it in, it could well be the GS again or maybe a Triumph Adv 1200 this time!
 
I'm changing sides...

Went into NOG today to take a closer look at the RT - I've had my eye on one for a bit and somehow felt that this was the time...

They offered me a great part-ex deal against my '07 1200GS, tbh it was at least a grand above what I expected! Quite bizarre, after they had asked me what I was looking for they then offered £500 more than that. :confused:

Anyhow, after a bit of banter it was a done deal and I've got a new RT SE on order (fluid grey metallic), due to collect on 1st March! I'll be sad to see the GS go but I need to get the RT thing out of my system! :D
 
The first time I rode my GSA it felt so light on the front end, I had zero confidence in it going round any corner.

I stoped and reset the ESA suspension, and it was fine, some of the modes you cannot change on the move, so I always check on the RT as well which setting it's on etc.

:blast
 
Northants Rob said:
Went into NOG today to take a closer look at the RT - I've had my eye on one for a bit and somehow felt that this was the time...

They offered me a great part-ex deal against my '07 1200GS, tbh it was at least a grand above what I expected! Quite bizarre, after they had asked me what I was looking for they then offered £500 more than that. :confused:

Anyhow, after a bit of banter it was a done deal and I've got a new RT SE on order (fluid grey metallic), due to collect on 1st March! I'll be sad to see the GS go but I need to get the RT thing out of my system! :D
Click to expand...

Good luck mate. The switch from a GS to an RT is interesting. Unsurprisingly, the RT feels very different - not least because of the huge fairing stuck out in front of you - but it doesn't take long to love it :D
 
I had a ride up to Scarborough and back on a Twincam RT today whilst my GS was being serviced. The weather was a mix of high winds, rain, fog, sun and some dry roads near the east coast. I also rode a good mix of roads from fast A roads to tiny C roads, plus about 10 miles of dual carriageway, so had plenty of time to form an opinion.

Pro's:

- much quicker thanks to the superior aerodynamics at high speeds
- the handling felt precise with firm springing and damping
- cruise control and heated seats
- aerodynamic panniers don't affect high speed performance, unlike expanded Vario panniers
- superb weather protection; most of my kit was still dry after four hours and I got much wetter on the 10 mile ride home on my GS
- brilliant wind protection, even into a 50mph headwind. The Autocom mike did not cut in due to wind noise and we could have a normal conversation at 90mph
- both panniers can take a full face helmet, even my large Schuberth S1 Pro
- I could get my feet flat on the floor
- excellent tankbag release system

Cons:

- seat was no better than the GS
- less legroom
- made me look instantly 10 years older
- err, that's it :D

Overall, we were very very impressed and can't wait to ride one for 3000 miles in the States at the end of May :cool: Trudi was convinced she wasn't going to like it and came away thinking it'll probably be our next bike. I'll have to try a K1300GT first though...

The GS felt very large and wallowy on the ride home.
 
I part ex'ed my 2009 GSA (fully loaded) for a 2010 RT TC. Had EVERY option even audio.

The RT is an extremely accomplished machine. But it was too good. To the point of boring.
I didn't feel any wind, my arse didn't hurt - ever. Heated seat was awesome.

I missed the rawness of the GS. It's horses for courses, what do you want from the bike? If it is supreme comfort and effortless riding the get the RT. If you want to feel "alive" get the GS.

Both are brilliant bikes.
 
Big_Steve64 said:
I part ex'ed my 2009 GSA (fully loaded) for a 2010 RT TC. Had EVERY option even audio.

The RT is an extremely accomplished machine. But it was too good. To the point of boring.
I didn't feel any wind, my arse didn't hurt - ever. Heated seat was awesome.

I missed the rawness of the GS. It's horses for courses, what do you want from the bike? If it is supreme comfort and effortless riding the get the RT. If you want to feel "alive" get the GS.

Both are brilliant bikes.
Click to expand...

Well, I loved the performance and character of my K1200S and the supreme comfort and effortless riding of the RT, so perhaps I need a fast tourer like a K1300GT, GTR1300 or the forthcoming Trophy 1200 :nenau
 
I gave up on one bike fits all a couple of years ago. I now have an R1150RT which offers all the luxuries mentioned but can be bland. I've also got a Multistrada 1100S which has limited luxuries but certainly cant be described as bland, ugly? yes, bland? no.
Ok I'm lucky that I have the room and can afford to run two bikes but the combined cost of both equates to one new bike and works well for the different riding I enjoy.

If I need sore arse and a massive grin then its the multi but if It's mile munching and comfort the RT is perfect.

Sven mentioned the k1300GT, I had one for a weekend and that is certainly a quick machine and handles nicely but I find four cylinder engines just a bit too smooth and soul less, worth a go though Sven you may find it ticks the boxes for you :thumb2
 
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