A plea from a newbie

He used his resources,asked some locals, used basic navigation skills, Mike and HE GOT THERE !!!
Remember Mike.................technology will always fail in some way.....however as humans we are ever resourceful
As I said before to 95% of motorcyclists who have GPS on their bikes.............I reckon it's all 'HANDLEBAR JEWELLERY', especially in GS circles..........like HG Stormtrooper suits,Sidi Couriers and Arai Tour-X's...........fine if you're going around the world...........but do you really need it to get down to the Land's End GS event or Bake's Hog Roast


fck me sideways - i actually agree with JB !

but i am also a navigating god, maps - pah - divining sticks for me - the new kind that take small AAA batteries
 
Johnny, you seem to be under the impression that I use a GPS because I can't navigate with a map & compass (both of which I carry) - using a GPS as a navaid is just a natural progression for me - technology I embrace and learn to use.

Marco Polo would've used a GPS - it's just that they weren't invented - Shakespeare would've used a word processor - but there were probably people tut-tutting that he was using one of those new-fangled quills - what's wrong with carving in stone, eh?

Enough - it's pretty clear to me we're going to have to agree to differ and I'm completely content with you not using GPS.

Mike:p
 
Noddy said:
No I disagree, they bought into the sales blurb that the equiptment made them experts at finding the quickest/shortest route and would lead them to the nearest hotel, garage, or restaurant without the need for the ground work first.

But they are still me mates.

I meant (as I suspect you know;)) that they hadn't done their groundwork...

Mike:)
 
Mike O said:
Johnny, you seem to be under the impression that I use a GPS because I can't navigate with a map & compass (both of which I carry) - using a GPS as a navaid is just a natural progression for me - technology I embrace and learn to use.

Marco Polo would've used a GPS - it's just that they weren't invented - Shakespeare would've used a word processor - but there were probably people tut-tutting that he was using one of those new-fangled quills - what's wrong with carving in stone, eh?

Enough - it's pretty clear to me we're going to have to agree to differ and I'm completely content with you not using GPS.

Mike:p

No Mike..............never thought you couldn't use maps and a compass and I'm happy that you are content with GPS technology

So we differ..........good job everybody's different

My point was...........that as soon as somebody suggests maps to a new traveller to France.............Noddy and me ..........get 'shot down' in a manner of speaking.

However I firmly believe that on 'face value', that a newbie to France will definitely get more from that system of travel, than just relying on a GPS (unless he is a God, in using a GPS and we don't know the answer to that question...........so we'll leave it as a variable in the equation)

Some people on the Forum, firmly believe that GPS technology is the 'be all and end all' of travel.............however good as it maybe, it can still fail and if you've forgotten the basics (or never really learned them in the 1st place)............you're going to be 'higher and dryer' when it does bloody fail..

A lot of people struggle (if they're honest) with fully understanding GPS technology and this was evident at some of Judge's workshops I bet.Some people admitted that they've never bother reading the manual FFS, after spending £500-£1000 on a piece of kit.........can you believe it????

No wonder they aren't understanding it or getting the best from it

Plus having toured with many people (before GPS's became prevalent) their understanding of geography and landmark recognition...........linked to map reading was inadequate at best and woeful to p1ss poor at worst.................

Now these boys have gone and spent £500+ on a fancy GPS (because somebody told them it would be their saviour) and have they got better..........NO.............they're even more confused than they were before and haven't even dusted off the manual, because they were never really interested in Navigation in the first place and were 'happy' to follow somebody else.

Whilst this is not the case with everybody.........no doubt some have embraced the new technology and got a whole lot better, but if some were honest.............all they can do is switch it on let the GPS work them...............rather than the rider working and using the GPS to help him..................ever read the help questions in the GPS section................amusing at times and I bet all the answers are in the Garmin manual..............if they bothered to bloody read it!!!!!!!!!!

To Judge...........yes I should have stayed for the practical afternoon session and in hindsight.............that's a double yes, because the excuse to leave led me nowhere, but down a bloody blind alley and I'd been better staying with you guys......
So 'show me the light on the Garmisch Trip' and in GPS terms I'll be forever indebted

To Phil (MM)...................yo brother ..............we're getting there!!! maybe.............just a question of time............perhaps 'our take on life' is not altogether different at times

To the original poster - Judgeded (or whatever).............sorry mate this is some THREAD HIJACK............bear with us while we 'scrum-down' and do have a great trip.............old chap (just remember to take the GPS and the Michelin Maps and you'll keep us all happy) and when you return...............tell us all about it and post some pics..............that'll keep us happy and you proud of your first foreign foray (nice bit of assimile or whatever, if i'm corrected)
 
just my little bit.

I've been round most of Europe without a GPS - but using good michelin maps.
Found lots of little places etc etc.

However i bought my SP3 just before i got to SYDNEY - i found it invaluable for actually getting from A to B - when i knew where A and B where as written down. ( house hunting etc )

But the main thing is - it stops map reading arguments in the car with Herself.
 
JohnnyBoxer said:
Never intimated that I was a navigating god, just a competent navigator with a decent detailed map and compass - offroad or onroad.

It's not difficult - man has been exploring the globe for thousands of years without a bloody GPS and some of the greatest feats of conquest have been achieved without them

The way some people go on about GPS on here...............you'd think they were Scott of the Antarctic or Ellen MacArthur.

We live in Western Europe (FFS), not the Sahara or Gobi deserts

A friend of mine is currently in Mongolia on his 650 Dakar, with his partner on her 50,000 mile 650 GS, on their way to China and guess what his 'all singing and dancing' GPS has packed in............kaput..........nada.........7 days ago

Naturally he was a little dismayed and bewildered.............as you would be, stuck in the wilds of Mongolia, however his partner, Sue (quickwitted as ever) wasn't the least bit fazed and 'piped' up - 'never mind Marco Polo managed to find his way around the world in the 14th Century- he didn't have a GPS'

So to get to Ulaan Batuur (sp) the capital of Mongolia............guess what he's got his maps and compass out and .............no sh1t he's got there with the help of a map.........out of the Desert.............wow!!!!!!!! Would you believe it in 2005..........with no GPS

He used his resources,asked some locals, used basic navigation skills, Mike and HE GOT THERE !!!


Johnny, why all the anger? It makes you come over like someone who doesn't understand the technology and is afraid of being seen to be inadequate. People said the same thing about compasses, chronometers and sextants.

I can navigate and I am familiar with all the technology available for land, air or sea both old and new. It seems an age since I first used a GPS, that was long before they were available to the great unwashed and they were very rudimentary and very complicated compared with modern ones. However, even then, they were far less complicated than a sextant.

To have the use of one as an AID to navigation on roads in Europe could be seen as a luxury, mobile phones were seen as such 10 years ago by some people. However, for those who embrace and enjoy the technology they are a wonderful tool.
Notice that I wrote AID in capitals, MikeO also used the same term. That is what they are, navigation AIDS! On my boat I now have three of the things, two by choice and one was overtaken by a later model. I still have a sextant on the boat but now I don't have to use the thing but it is there just in case.

You obviously get pleasure from your non servoed bike, it is a toy, it has practical uses but I suspect primarily it is a toy which you enjoy. Lots of cheaper bikes could do do the practical bits.
Clearly you enjoy stopping and messing around with maps, good luck to you, I can do without it especially when it is pissing down.
Let people have their handlebar jewellry Johnny without putting them down.......no-one is calling you a dinosaur! :beerjug:
 
Hello judgeged welcome aboard.

You have just witnessed one of the mysteries and facinations of ukgser.

You say something inocuous and BANG it all kicks off. You won't know why, you won't know when.

You are one of the priviledge few that have managed it with their first posting and I take my hat off to you Sir.

Don't let it put you off you will find it endearing after a while.

Other topics of conversation you might try are:-

What colour is your bike?
What tyres have you got?
What luggage?
What are your views on variuos religions?
What tent?

We would also like to see inside your fridge and garage.

We will also add snippets of advice about the state of repair of your property and the tidyness of your grounds.

And don't forget if you see another GS out on the road it's bad form not to post asking who it was.


Good luck with the trip.

Lol
 
Shenzi said:
Johnny, why all the anger? It makes you come over like someone who doesn't understand the technology and is afraid of being seen to be inadequate. People said the same thing about compasses, chronometers and sextants.

I can navigate and I am familiar with all the technology available for land, air or sea both old and new. It seems an age since I first used a GPS, that was long before they were available to the great unwashed and they were very rudimentary and very complicated compared with modern ones. However, even then, they were far less complicated than a sextant.

To have the use of one as an AID to navigation on roads in Europe could be seen as a luxury, mobile phones were seen as such 10 years ago by some people. However, for those who embrace and enjoy the technology they are a wonderful tool.
Notice that I wrote AID in capitals, MikeO also used the same term. That is what they are, navigation AIDS! On my boat I now have three of the things, two by choice and one was overtaken by a later model. I still have a sextant on the boat but now I don't have to use the thing but it is there just in case.

You obviously get pleasure from your non servoed bike, it is a toy, it has practical uses but I suspect primarily it is a toy which you enjoy. Lots of cheaper bikes could do do the practical bits.
Clearly you enjoy stopping and messing around with maps, good luck to you, I can do without it especially when it is pissing down.
Let people have their handlebar jewellry Johnny without putting them down.......no-one is calling you a dinosaur! :beerjug:

Sorry Shenzi, about the anger bit.................just a Hobby Horse of mine.......I would use a GPS for sailing and mountaineering/exploring etc as I bet that they're invaluable.......but it's just the way most people on here see GPS, as the navigation God with all previous forms of navigation as 'old hat' and as soon as you mention a map.................you get slated.

The people (not many) that I've seen trying to use them, have tied themselves in knots and we've resorted to a good old fashioned map..............much to their emabarassment.
However I concur and as previously said, in the hands of a skilled operator, I would imagine that they're simply awesome.

You guessed it, i'm a bit of a technophobe.............but not in the right places...........I understand technology moves on and this is progress..............but I don't encompass technology without purpose (not saying this of GPS, I add) and sometimes things are thrust upon us without real purpose and like to evaluate all things in my own time.

Yes the non ABS ADV is great...............but equally, my used Dakar 650 bought at the same time (for a quarter of the price) can do all of the things it can (maybe without the same power, speed and finesse) and also is better in some depts.............!!!

However................let's have tolerance of both sides of every opinion:beerjug: :beerjug: :beerjug: :beerjug: :beerjug:
 
judgeged said:
This is my first trip abroad as a rider .....
the type of adivce i need is more traffic orientated than anything

It seems almost too obvious to mention it, but I've seen many forget:

Ride on the right-hand side of the road!

It's normally OK once you're moving, but when you pull out from a stop or you're down a narrow lane, forgetting can have mighty serious consequences!

Enjoy your trip!

Greg
 
TIIMMEE OUT

JEEESUS
Im glad i didnt meet you guys in a pub and ask any advice it would not have been pretty to watch people electrocuting each other with a sat nav system or strangling each other with the cord of a prismatic compass
To settle the argument(sorry,heated debate) i use the sat nav as a HGV driver all week every week and it does have its great points and its limitations but, i also used to walk in the hills a lot using a map and compass and if you "see" the map,rather than looking at the map then yes it does reveal a lot of info that the sat nav does not
However to use a map for a long time takes a lot of concentration and time to sit and look at but if your just trying to get to a location (or possilby the nearest cash machine or petrol station) i would take the sat nav every time and the point was made that i would be staring down at a little screen instead of looking where i was going is not a valid point as my system has audio routed to my helmet so a quick glance every so often is more than enough.

i dont want to seem ungrateful but in a couple of posting we strayed right away from my original plea for help it was not a plea for us to verbally murder each other over the merits of compass or technology I WILL BE TAKING BOTH SYSEM AND PAPER MAP AS A FAMOUS MAN ONCE SAID "THE MORE INFO YOUVE GOT THE LESS YOU'LL NEED"
thanks to all you guys that didnt get into the verbal fist fight and managed to help me out
Ged
 
to johnny boxer

Johnny as someone as allready pointed out why all the agression what the hell is this all about

"To the original poster - Judgeded (or whatever)....."

i joined this site to be with like minded people and to bestow the virtues of owning a great bike i didnt join to have someone like you have a direct go at me with my first posting i asked for help not a load of s..t from someone i dont even know
if i ever meet you and you find you dislike me then please feel free to have a go at me but until then wind your neck in and calm down I ONLY ASKED FOR ADVICE ON TRAVELLING IN FRANCE you are involved in an argument with someone else about a subject i didnt even ask about :mad: :mad:
 
Re: to johnny boxer

judgeged said:
Johnny as someone as allready pointed out why all the agression what the hell is this all about

"To the original poster - Judgeded (or whatever)....."

i joined this site to be with like minded people and to bestow the virtues of owning a great bike i didnt join to have someone like you have a direct go at me with my first posting i asked for help not a load of s..t from someone i dont even know
if i ever meet you and you find you dislike me then please feel free to have a go at me but until then wind your neck in and calm down I ONLY ASKED FOR ADVICE ON TRAVELLING IN FRANCE you are involved in an argument with someone else about a subject i didnt even ask about :mad: :mad:

This was the whole paragragh (BELOW).............to the original sentence - 'To the original poster - Judgeded (or whatever)' - not just an edited 'soundbite' that you've posted above.........





''''''''To the original poster - Judgeded (or whatever).............sorry mate this is some THREAD HIJACK............bear with us while we 'scrum-down' and do have a great trip.............old chap (just remember to take the GPS and the Michelin Maps and you'll keep us all happy) and when you return...............tell us all about it and post some pics..............that'll keep us happy and you proud of your first foreign foray (nice bit of assimile or whatever, if i'm corrected)''''''''''







Which was actually apologising to you as the original poster, for having your thread hijacked by us and I was no way having a go at your good self, as the above paragraph shows..........but I was having some 'banter' with Mike O for his put down of Noddy and myself for suggesting Michelin Maps over a GPS........so don't have a go at me.............for having a go at you.......... because I wasn't.

So once again...........welcome to the world of the GS, have a great trip, take some pics and come back and tell us all about it and show us the pics.

You'll find all shades of humanity on this crazy Forum............but it certainly is a lively place.

:beerjug: :beerjug: :beerjug:
 
Back to the point...

Welcome aboard mate. I'd say you're making a great move going travelling in a country which is not too far, but far enough away from all those bickering English gits...hahaha.
reminds me of the scene in The Holy Grail where Arthur asks the peasants for directions, and they go into the fantastic rant about anarcho-syndicist worker communes etc, and he eventually 'rides' off leaving them to it.
France is a great country for biking, there's loads to see and do, the locals are friendly, the roads are way less congested than the UK, and the Normandy beahces and surrounding sites and cemeteries are very, very moving. There are a couple of other places worth a visit if you have time. The end of the Cherbourg peninsula, there's a wee town called 'Barfleur' traditional fishing port which used to be a big mussel harvesting place, but has declined a bit. Just West along the coast there are the impressive coast and cliffs around Etretat big lighthouses etc. Mont St Michel is good, but a bit touristy for me. St Malo is a great coastal town with sea walls and old centre intact. The whole coast then out to Pte du Raz (French equivalent of Lands End) is full of very scenic roads, and there's a place called Le Val Andre an old Victorian style seaside resort with a restaurant (I'll dig out the name) which transports Moules Mariniers "to a previously undreamt of plane". You'll have a ball.
Mike Werner knows the area much, much better than me, but if you need any more info, drop me a line.

Bon voyage...Rob

p.s. don't listen to Fanum either..the Frogs are great at buying fuel on Sundays, cos we've got credit cards which work here...hahaha. Sorry Bill.
 
A big thankyou

Guys,
thanks to all who contributed with constructive help i knew i'd found the right forum for me to lay my helmet(ooh err mrs)but you know what i mean. i'm sorry for having a bit of a rant :beerjug:,but i didnt realise the "lively" nature of this forum so all further postings will be carefully vetted for any possible arguments, so as to carry on the peace and serenity that is the GS travellers forum :D

apologies to johnny boxer:beerjug: lets start again:beer:
 
Non taken.........Judgeded

Have a good trip and ride safe

look forward to meeting up sometime at a GS Event
 
The final word

As the instigator of this heated and obviously contentious issue i feel i should clarify my own personal position
I am perfectly able to use a map and compass acurately and have done so in whiteout conditions atop of Blencathra ...Fairfield and misted out in the middle of the moors, each time i sorted myself out in no time.I can triangulate (using the cocked hat method) i can take back bearings and lead route bearings using either true north or mag BUT......
I currently drive a variety of vehicles including HGV's down to little vans and the SAT NAV(not GPS,and theyre not the same thing) that i use will show mw everthing from the location of the next speed camera to the location of the nearest 24 hr chemist and everything in between (check out the downloads for TOM TOM navigator which i run on an Ipaq computer) so now i also have all the phone numbers i need aswell as the ability to find any local museums or other places of interest and this is the attraction of the SAT NAV ,not just the visible and audible direction instructions to anywhere in western europe so do you stand in the bus shelter in th rain trying to read a map by torchlight or punch in the address in the rain and let the little woman guide me to a bed for the night .....i know which one im sticking with BUT........
if something happens to the little woman in the box i still can find my way the old fashioned way by mouth or map .......
Now this isnt sent to fuel the arguments all over again ,its sent just to clarify my own personal choice made by me for me ............... so put away the dueling pistols now
 
We've done the D-Day sights a few times, and you must see the American cemetary at Omaha Beech - one of the most memorable experiences of any trip, and only about 10 mins ride from Arromanche.

If you want my advice, if you are travelling on your own, the key word is preparation. Take a look at this list http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=41133&highlight=travel+list

I found it invaluable, but dont take too many clothes - they only take up valuable pannier space, and you won't need more than 1 or 2 casual shirts and 1 pair of jeans. :p
 
Great thread hijack:D

I see you use Tom Tom Judgeged, good choice. I prefer it to Garmin - I think it's more user friendly and has more useful POI's etc and the ability to add to the POI's is excellent. The 3D view is also brilliant.

That said the Garmins are better for some of the dirt track roads if that's your bag.

Anyway, some advice on riding in France. On the right, as has been said - pay particular attention on roundabouts, and in small towns/villages be very very careful of traffic coming out of side turnings from your right. They still, AFAIK in some places have priority so will come bowlong out onto the main road in front of you expecting you to stop. Very frightening when it first happens. It's only in some of the minor villages I think, but it pays to treat towns etc with a great deal of caution as far as traffic goes.

The area you're going to has some great roads, and shouldn't be too busy with tourist traffic yet. If you get the chance to go to Caen and visit the 'Memorial' Museum it's worth it. Also try and get to Bayeux, pretty town and a visit to see the Bayeux Tapestry is good. St Malo is ok, and Mont St Michel is very very touristy but worth the trip just to say you've been there.

The French drivers are usually very aware of bikers and will move out of your way on most roads to let you pass. Sometimes alarmingly so. I've been travelling along a Route National (RN or N road) and the cars have actually put themselves onto the grass verge to give me room to pass when the oncoming traffic has been heavy. They really are very considerate, so it pays to be polite and thank them - a little waggle of the right foot off the peg is sufficient and normal.

Make sure you take all your bike documents - V5 registration, insurance certificate and MOT with you - originals not copies. You're unlikely to be stopped but if you are they may request these papers and by law you're supposed to take them with you. Fuel on Sundays can be hard to get, but Hypermarkets are usually open and take cash or cards. Otherwise it's self service with a card but be aware that not all credit/debit cards are acceptable to these machines. Be sure to have some cash with you to ask a friendly car driver if he'll stick 20 Euros of fuel on his card for you - I've done it oftne and they're usually happy to oblige.

You'll be fine with the food especially in the bigger towns of that area. It's very used to having English tourists and many places will have English menu's or speak enough English to get you decently fed. In desperation, there's many Macdonalds around so you can always stock up there.

If you need any more help, PM me or you can call if you like, I've been over there hundreds of times (used to drive coaches) so I have a reasonable knowledge.

Enjoy it, you'll have a blast I'm sure.
 


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