HELP NEEDED: electrical problem in Morocco

After my first failure on the 1200GSA last week (fuel pump controller), I am currently experiencing a second showstopper failure. Possibly something to do with the ignition or battery.

I was mapping new (to me) tracks in the Rif and stopped to chat to some farmers and when I came to restart the engine everything was dead, no signs of life in the display area. After several minutes of faffing around checking things, taking out the key, putting it back, etc., the ignition came on, but when I tried to start the engine I got a thud sound which sounded like a flat battery.

I was on a very gentle slope and tried bump starting but the loose surface of the piste meant the wheel just skidded. After some time, though, the engine started on the key. I was 35km from tarmac and all the way was experiencing a stuttering on the throttle. I kept the revs up and made the main road just south of Ketama when five miles later the bike died on me with a totally dead display.

It was getting dark and as "luck" would have it I pulled in next to two obnoxious youths who after trying to sell me some dope and get me to drink from their bottle of vodka, were determined to get me to leave the bike and go and stay at their house. Earlier in the day the front bulb had failed so I replaced that (just in case). Fortunately I always carry a head torch with me. Then I tightened the battery terminals and had a general poke around. By this time the display was lighting up, but still a thud when I tried to start the engine. So I pushed the bike back up the hill, rolled back down and managed to bump start it.

Again I had the stuttering of the engine, but worse. Then after only three miles it failed again. By now it was totally dark but I was next to a bus halt with a seat. Over the next few hours I tried various things, then decided to settle down and get some sleep. I had an emergency space foil thingy in my accident first aid kit which was amazing when it unfolded, but was very glittery in car headlights and I was woken three times by drivers stopping their cars to offer me to sleep in their house, but they had all been drinking, one could hardly stand up. In any case I thought I should stay with the bike. I woke roughly every hour and did exercises to get some warmth. It started light rain at one point so I put my helmet on. The temperature fell to 7c which isn't that low but after 29c during the day it felt freezing.

In the daylight I could see better and pushed the bike half a mile to the top of a big hill then bump started it. This time the engine ran smoothly and at the top of another big hill I tried killing the engine and restarting off the button and everything was fine.

Then it died on me again and I rolled to a halt next to a truckstop. Eventually the display came back to life but I got the thud from the starter, so after a while I got someone to take me and the bike the 80km back to Fez (400 dh but I was a captive customer and it included free coffee, arabic lessons and a minor bung to the police).

I would very much appreciate anyone's ideas on what's wrong!

I'm totally knackered and am off to bed for a couple of hours.
Tim

PS: there's enough weed in the Rif to keep the entire UKGSer population happy for the next 10,000 years

Are you getting the charging warning light when you manage to get it running?
Some of the symptoms sound similar to when my alternator failed on my first GS.

Tim,
at first I thought it sounded like the antenna device around the ignition switch was playing up as a similar thing happened to one of our party last year in Belgium - perfect one minute then nothing the next.....

However when you say that when you try and start it you get a clunk sound from the engine, that definately sounds like a charging issue but I would have thought you would get a "no charge" warning light on your intrument panel. Have you had the opportunity to measure that voltage in your battery at all???

I hope you get it sorted or at least manage to get to somewhere with secure facilities...

Good Luck

AndyT

Not much help, possibly but a couple of thousand miles ago mike 07 GSA had three times when I pushed the starter button, absolutely nothing happened, apart from the RID going blank

All times it was on the side stand and wondered if it had anything to do with it. First time I was convinced the battery was flat, or the starter was jammed. Voltage ok, as it should have been as it had been on a trickle charger, and put it in gear and rolled it back a foot. After which it started as if nothing had happened. Other times, again bike had been on the side stand, but nothing was done and it sorted itself out. Which is how it is now

I wonder if it's the starter relay - K9130 - or the starter switch itself that's occasionally earthing / shorting itself, hence the RID blanking, but once the relay / switch free's itself everything is ok. Aircraft have sticky relays quite often and are a tw@t to diagnose was they're usually intermittent failures

I'm back in the land of the living after a good sleep!

Clive: I presume you mean the battery symbol for insufficient current, in which case, no.

The manual does say that a discharged battery can cause the engine to die suddenly, "You can continue to ride until the battery is discharged. Bear in mind that the engine could cut out suddenly and that the battery could discharge until completely flat in which case it might have suffered irreparable damage."

However no warnings when running other than the defective front bulb.

I'll take the battery out in the morning and see if I can get it tested/charged.

AndyT: The bike is now safely back at the villa in Fez. From what I've read the antenna/immobiliser problem is accompanied by an EWS (engine won't start ) warning on the display

John Arm: I'll take a look at the side stand area, I've noticed the stand interferes with the gear shift and seems to have some movement.

PS: Corn on the right of the track, weed on the left. Totally coincidentally we're having chocolate brownies tonight

it doesnt sound like a failed alternator - your battery wouldn't charge and eventualy the thing would go flat esp. given the number of restarts - it seems as if when the thing runs the charging system is ok.

complete dead no display - would suggest battery disconnected rather than flat - given the intermittent nature I would suspect a loose connection , possible an earth (or main earth) which could give you these symptoms. Could be something to do with the ignition barrel - loose or not making connections properly - have a look at this

Check all your main cables from the battery - large ones see if any are loose - if you can - follow to the starter moor etc. Check, if you can the loom from the ign switch see if anything has worn or broke.

I've not seen or read of this type of problem being reported which would support the loose/broken connection issue rather than systematic failure.

Anything been touched, disturbed or replaced recently? - take some time to check this out

Finally just go carefully through all the available connectors making sure they are connected / seated properly - try it in the dark - a Z9 i had once showed, in the dark, a sparking regulator connection, different technology I know, but a straw that you could clutch at.

Good luck

Strange set of symptoms! I can only suggest either a faulty earth from the battery, kneckered connectiosn soemwhere along the line, or maybe a problem within the battery itself.

Good luck!

Tim, I don't think the sidestand / switch is at fault. Why would the RID blank when you press the starter button? If you haver the bike in gear and sidestand down the RID doesn't blank. Dodgy relay is my inital guess.

I've had a look at the side stand, I could only tighten it a tiny amount and there's still a wobble but I now doubt this is anything to do with the problem.

My level of technical knowledge isn't good. I don't understand why, according to the above quote from the BMW manual, a knackered/flat battery could cause the bike to suddenly stop--after all, some bikes don't even have a battery.

And if I can manage to locate some jump leads tomorrow, would these enable me to start the bike even if the battery is knackered?

John: Could a faulty relay also explain why the bike was stuttering and then cut out at speed?

I was assuming the display blanked through lack of power.

Some of the time the display wouldn't come on when the key was turned, but then when the ignition was turned off it would display momentarily. Thinking about it, maybe there wasn't enough power for the controller to enter the power-on procedures, but there was enough for the residual display that you for 15 secs after turning the ignition off.

I have no idea whats wrong but the reason a flat battery would cause the engine tp die would be the lack of spark at the plugs. This could also explain the stuttering with a weak spark.

looking at the problems you have check the level of the fluid in your battery I think you Altenater is OK but your battery is not accepting any charge. Using jump leads will point along those lines.

John, I think your battery is probably "toast". Had a similar thing happen to me in Thailand with a rental, had to go off trail to let a 4WD coming the opposite way go past then I stalled the bike trying to get back on trail. When I tried to restart it the display went completely blank and all I got was a "thunk" sound from the starter, tried the starter several times with the same result. Checked the usual suspects battery connections, side stand, nothing. Bike was an 07 and had been running perfectly for around three days before this with no indications of any battery charging or low voltage issues on display. To cut a long story short was given another bike to continue with and the non-starting bike was hauled off to the dealer, when I later enquired on the problem was told it was a failed battery which the dealer had replaced.

Nigel

Tim Cullis said:

I've had a look at the side stand, I could only tighten it a tiny amount and there's still a wobble but I now doubt this is anything to do with the problem.

My level of technical knowledge isn't good. I don't understand why, according to the above quote from the BMW manual, a knackered/flat battery could cause the bike to suddenly stop--after all, some bikes don't even have a battery.

And if I can manage to locate some jump leads tomorrow, would these enable me to start the bike even if the battery is knackered?

John: Could a faulty relay also explain why the bike was stuttering and then cut out at speed?

I was assuming the display blanked through lack of power.

Some of the time the display wouldn't come on when the key was turned, but then when the ignition was turned off it would display momentarily. Thinking about it, maybe there wasn't enough power for the controller to enter the power-on procedures, but there was enough for the residual display that you for 15 secs after turning the ignition off.

Click to expand...

It may well start on jumpers but it probably won't run for long.

Start with the simple things.

Sounds like battery gone duff. No instrument light up etc. on start up. Why is battery dead.....good question....could be a number of reasons.

Start with the simplest, it's simply failed. If it's OK, then it may not be charging. Most likely the alternator or rectifier. Both OK and the alternator belt? Move onto looking at the bits that control the starting / running process. Ignition switch and the smart key. Starter button. Side stand switch. Maybe (but I'm not sure that it would kill the instrument display) the gear lever position switch, too. All OK? Start looking for a snapping relay...tricky to find, as others have said....after that, a basic short, somewhere?

No (or duffish) battery = bike will not start = no way of electrickery to get from alternator to the bits that need it.

Bikes that have no battery are designed / configured to run without one. Yours isn't, I'm afraid.

I would go along with the Duff / Damaged battery first, if your riding on rough road, vibration / shock could of damaged the battery internals, or just brought on its early demise. I think the standard BMW battery has a few critics around this forum.

Perhaps someway of getting the battery tested, or getting another battery to try, and test if the symptoms are still there, or not.

The second suspect would be the earth strap from the battery to the engine. Maybe checking where the earth lead bolts onto the engine, it may have some corrosion around the terminal were it bolts to the engine.

I'm not sure if the starter motor could cause any loss of electrical power, by having a lose connection somewhere around it or the starter relay, but maybe worth a look.

Beyond the above items, then its the smaller connectors around the Engine, Battery and Ignition switch area, and that may be harder/ more time consuming, to find a loose or corroded connection.

The total loss of electrical power would suggest a connection problem rather than the EWS (immobilizer) or side stand issues, although im willing to be proved wrong, given the modern CAN-BUS wiring on the bike.

I do hope you get it sorted soon.
Good Luck.

I would go for the battery first, internal damage or a bad cell. A Voltmeter will probably show OK, which is why the display is OK on start up, but as soon as any load is applied the voltage drops. You need to test the battery on load, or simply buy a new one as a likely fix.

Batteries

During a jolly jaunt last year (trans am) two 1200s suffered from this (both in warrenty), running well, stopped for a coffee and bingo, no battery!. New batt and all was well. I'd put money on the battery being kaput these seem to be bvery small capacity for the bike (keep weight down?) and possibly has a hard life. Good luck always trade it in for a donky, saw one being ridden up the motorway to Tangiers in 2006, might have been a GT donkey though.

The battery size was dramatically reduced from the 1150GS to the 1200GS as part of the weight-saving project, but then increased somewhat on the 1200GSA.

Seeing as I didn't have any display warnings, I'm wondering what triggers the battery warning symbol for insufficient current.

Is this only triggered when there's a problem with the altenator/rectifier (whatever they are)? And so therefore does the lack of this warning mean I possibly don't have a problem with them?

If you have a faulty battery are there usually any warnings?

________________________________________________________

I'm got the battery out and I'm going to try to find a 'ssiklst' in the old town to find a replacement battery.

1. Has to be 12v
2. Has to fit in battery tray
3. The manual says 14Ah, so is it OK if I try for 10Ah or better?
4. Does it matter if it is unsealed and has to be filled with acid and then charged?

Anything else I need to be aware of?

Tim

Hi Tim,
If you can not get a motorcycle battery at your location, you could buy a small car battery and stick it in the top box.
Run 2 wires from it to your battery posts.

Tim Cullis said:

The battery size was dramatically reduced from the 1150GS to the 1200GS as part of the weight-saving project, but then increased somewhat on the 1200GSA.

Seeing as I didn't have any display warnings, I'm wondering what triggers the battery warning symbol for insufficient current.

Is this only triggered when there's a problem with the altenator/rectifier (whatever they are)? And so therefore does the lack of this warning mean I possibly don't have a problem with them?

If you have a faulty battery are there usually any warnings?

________________________________________________________

I'm got the battery out and I'm going to try to find a 'ssiklst' in the old town to find a replacement battery.

1. Has to be 12v
2. Has to fit in battery tray
3. The manual says 14Ah, so is it OK if I try for 10Ah or better?
4. Does it matter if it is unsealed and has to be filled with acid and then charged?

Anything else I need to be aware of?

Tim

Click to expand...

As a 'get you home' it just needs to be 12V and fit in the tray.

Tim Cullis said:

John: Could a faulty relay also explain why the bike was stuttering and then cut out at speed?

I was assuming the display blanked through lack of power.

Some of the time the display wouldn't come on when the key was turned, but then when the ignition was turned off it would display momentarily. Thinking about it, maybe there wasn't enough power for the controller to enter the power-on procedures, but there was enough for the residual display that you for 15 secs after turning the ignition off.

Click to expand...

If the power blanking when hitting the starter button is caused by an ignition switch / battery / starter problem then I think it could cause the stuttering at speed as if eg it's a crappy battery connection, then this would kill the ignition power and ...........

As I said earlier, it sorted itself out on my bike which makes me think it was a sticky relay, or it was a wire chafe that's sorted itself out. Never changed the battery either and it's the original one