► Chain failures: 43 so far and still counting

[Elvie]

The first 29 posts on this thread are chain failure reports that have been copied from the 'Chains, oilers, sprockets' thread at http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147152. As of April 2010 there have been at least 43 failures/replacements affecting:
- Elvie (650 - 2500mi),
- Terry Ryan (800 - 2000mi),
- Twisticles (800 - 2300mi),
- Tim Cullis (650 - 4500mi),
- Adamski (800, 1250mi),
- Adamski again! (800, 625mi),
- Michael Brown (1500mi),
- Michael Brown again! (600mi),
- Micky (800 - 6000mi),
- lunchbox (800 - 4500mi),
- lunchbox again! (800 - 500mi),
- shag (800 - 7000mi),
- Globerider (800 - 2200mi),
- sijohnston (800 - 3000mi),
- yosemite sam (800 - 9000mi),
- baggie (800 - ?mi),
- popeyethesailor (650 - 700mi),
- pt0310 (800 - ?mi),
- chad (800 - 1850mi),
- easyman05 (800 - 8375mi),
- nickp (800 - 4000mi),
- ghostrider (800 - 6300mi),
- wrc58,
- Santrix (800 - 12000mi)
- Dirt Diver (800 - 1560mi)
- boxerr80 (800 - 3125mi)
- sharik (650 - 7800mi)
- martin (800 - 7500mi)
- doctorzippy (800) 130 miles on clock!
- avmac7 (650 - 8600mi)
- ILMV (800 - 10000mi)
- mat_g (800 - ?mi)
- zippygser (800 - 14500mi)
- harleyquin (650 - ?mi)
- yicker (800)
- mrs gringo (650 - 2000mi)
- 4263 (800 - ?mi),
- Wirycow (800 - 10450m)

Five other reports affect Jolyron Russ, Ozkiwi and an unknown customer of Coopers TW, unknown F800GS customer of NOG (V8Legend report), unknown customer of Bath Road BMW (Ferret55 report).

Have done 2,500 miles on my 650 and am now awaiting new chain and sprockets to be fitted under warranty. The dealer was not at all surprised & in fact one of the guys there said "they're all like this"

Must admit to being a bit lax on checking chain tension. I've never had any problems with previous bikes and my Blade is still on its original chain after 23,000 miles. I had a new tyre fitted yesterday as we're off on a long trip around Central Europe in 10 days and I didn't want to have to bother with tyres while out there. The originals were just starting to square off. Had the tyre fitted by Mike ( ex Rydale now independent) in Cardiff and he noticed the chain had a very tight spot& needed replacing. Am now concerned as another 2500 miles will put me in Slovakia or Poland. How do I manage there?

He also pointed out that it was a continuous chain without splittable links,suitable for the road but not off roading as it's a big job to change and not reparable at the roadside. Must admit to being a complete ignoramus about chains so hope this makes sense. Seems a bit of a boo boo on BMW's part & important foranyone planning an RTW trip on one.Don't knowif the 800 is the same

 

[Micky]

The chains fitted to the 650/800's are cheap and nasty CZ made in Checkoslovakia! The country hasn't existed for a few years

The replacement chains for the single cylinder 650's used to be DID but then the CZ chains replaced them. They're crap

Having said that my 800GS has done 4,000 miles and the CZ chain hasn't even been adjusted yet, but I know that when it starts wanting adjustment it'll go very quickly

Having said that, the chains fitted to the 650/800's are still lasting longer than the drive shaft, drive shaft bearings, oils seals and ring antenna's of the 1200's



www.adventure.gs

 

[TERRY RYAN]

well 2000 miles and yes I need a new chain coming down the road
just of a very busy roundabout gave it some to got of this hazard
felt a few knocks like my pannier had come loose
slow up stopped had a quick look nothing found
then got home still had my mind ticking and yes this is what I found
also a couple of the teeth on back sprocket have been chipped to


so its phone Bmw assit tomorrow to book in a call for Monday morning asap
is that the way to do it ???? or do I call them at 0500 hours on Monday morning
to make sure they get here before I have to goto work ???

Terry, The focus is off and it's hard to see what's happening - is that a broken link? If so, is the other link seized on the pin?

yep bit of a shit pic anyhow found the link broken
all the rest seam ok

 

[Tim Cullis]

I don't know if what I'm experiencing is chain slap, but that was the expression that came to mind. When the bike is neither accelerating nor decelerating there's a slapping noise from the chain area and a vibration through the right foot rest.

I mentioned it to the dealer before the 600 mile service and I happened to watch (through the customer viewing window) the mechanic carefully checking the chain.

The noise continued. I put the bike on the centre stand and ran it in gear and the noise level is frightening (to me). I checked the chain play and found it exactly per spec. I've also fitted a Scottoiler system.

Tim

Try changing gear more often.
Low revs in a high gear, then loading up the engine will cause this effect.
The number of power pulses is too low causing the chain to try a whip.
If you have been used to a very torquey shaft drive bike, the noise will be shocking, but it s really nothing to worry about.

Timpo.

This sounds very much what the 800s I had on loan for a weekend did. I would describe what your hearing as the stall point 'the point at which an engine will become very snatchy when running at low revs'. Effectively what's happening, is the crank shaft and the gearbox are out of sync with each other. The noise is the hyvo chain chattering because of the lack of tension in it due to the motor no longer pulling the gearbox.

I found the 800s to be very noisy at low revs. Due IMO to the above. I also found that the 800's are so high geared that the motor will not run smoothly in any higher gear than second at 30mph, where the 1200 would use fourth.

I suspect that being fitted with the same engine (all be it with a few tweaks) as the other 800's that you are experiencing the same thing.

Val

OK, I'm a bit more reassured. But as I explained above, it's not due to being in the wrong gear, it happens in any gear and at any speed when the chain is not under tension.

Having already done 1200 miles I'm very aware of the gearing. The 650 is geared about 10% higher than the 800, so with its close ratio gearbox is horrifically overgeared in first and second.

I'll stick my earplugs back in, which is a shame as the exhaust note is so lovely.

Tim

What you are describing sounds like the normal free play of a chain when loads change. It is much more common in bikes with longer suspension travel. It has been mentioned on the F800riders.org site with particular reference to a lowered machine. ( By the way the forum is a useful resource for F 800 series bikes ) I would however suggest getting it checked again as Elvie had a chain together with sprockets replaced under warranty at 1500 miles.

As an aside Tim, with your intention to go seriously off road, you might consider an after market chain such as a Renthal. The BMW chain is a continuous item, and to change it the rear end of the bike has to be removed. Not something you can always do at the side of the road. Before we left for our long trip we considerd a Renthal chain, which can be split in the normal way, and then replace using a soft link. We haven't gone down this route yet, but if we have a second chain failure we will. At present done 3500 or so miles on the replacement chain and seems ok.

 

[TERRY RYAN]

Ok so the chain saga is still on going called out Bmw assit
this morning at 0600 hrs no problems arrived with inthe hour
loaded bike into back of van and away it went down to my local Bmw dealer

got a phone call at 1300 ish from Bmw dealer "had a look at your chain you need a new chain and sprocket"
Me "ok find so get one its under warranty what was the cause"
Dealer "Sorry Terry Its not under warranty cause a stone got caught in the chain link and split it and their are no sprockets in UK or chains"
However we can do you a big favour by getting one of our new bikes
and sorting you out like that"
Me"OK sounds good to me as I have things planned this weekend lets do it
oh by the way how do you know a stone has split the link then I was on a M road when this happened and not off road how much will it cost me"
Dealer "just by the marks on the chain and sprocket hmm about £240 "
Me "Just do it lets get the bike running again but I am sure this should be a warranty job"

so the question is how do they know a stone has got wedged in the linkage ??? CSI springs to my mind
how often has this happen to other folks from here????
I was always thinking that when a stone lands on a chain it would get flipped of sidewards due the momentum and forces
fit for purpose also spring to mind

I don't think there is any way that the dealer can be definitive in his assessment that the damage was caused by a stone. If it were the case is the OE chain fit for purpose? I don't think so, and would push for a warranty replacement.

Might pointing at the 800GS advert whilst having the discussion help? With "fit for purpose" as already stated sprinkled in

I've never heard of this before and the dealer's response doesn't bode well.

If you get the chain/sprocket replaced under warranty so well and good, but if not do you really want to pay BMW labour rates to take the back end of the bike out and to then fit questionable parts? Elvie's post above talks about 3.5 hours labour...

Tim

 

[Tim Cullis]

Checking and adjusting chain tension

I'm still not happy with the amount of noise coming from the chain area and I think the chain is too slack. According to the manual, there should be 30-40mm chain deflection, however in the area that the manual shows you should measure the deflection there's a plastic guide fixed to the bottom of the swinging arm and this prevents the chain from moving far enough upwards to measure the tension. I can only push it up about 25mm before it hits the guide.

If I measure the deflection far enough back so that the chain doesn't foul the guide it's not in the middle of the two sprockets. Nevertheless the deflection here is about 35mm. Ergo my belief that were the plastic guide not in place the deflection in the middle would be in excess of 40mm. I've left a message with the dealer so will update this later.

Then on to another problem... The quick-release axle nut is 24mm, far bigger than any of the sockets or spanners that I own. It needs tightening to 100 Nm and my torque wrench only goes to 80. One of Lidl's specials this week is a £6.99 spanner set which goes up to 24mm, so at least I can get the nut undone. All I need now is a 24mm socket with 3/8 drive to fit the torque wrench.

Tim

 

[twisticles]

Hmm I am experiencing the same thing as Tim. I've also covered a miserly 2500 miles. Up to about 2000 miles the chain seemed fine, but now its all over the shop. About 45mm play in the loose spots and 10mm in the tight spots.

Obviously it needs a new chain ASAP.

It can't be right, after only 2500 miles. I've had chains that didn't even need adjusting after 8000 miles with a scottoiler. Even before the scottoiler I was religious about lubrication - every tuesday night after its bath

You think there is any chance of a warranty claim?

 

[Tim Cullis]

Mine's quickly got worse. 'All over the shop' is an excellent description. I have 2500 on the clock and am just about to leave for a week in the Pyrenees and France. Unless it somehow miraculously improves I shall be asking for a new chain under warranty on my return.

Tim

 

[twisticles]

Like Elvie, I had a new chain and sprockets fitted yesterday at only 2,300 miles.
I was pretty religious about lubing and checking tension, and the chain suddenly deteriorated in the last 300 miles or so. Some loose spots over 50mm and some tight spots under 10mm!

Replaced by dealer no questions asked. Dealer also replaced the Ring Antennae on recall, tightened the side stand and the radiator hose. Big props to South London Motorrad

After 24 hours with the 1200GS, I am even more convinced about the 800.

 

[Tim Cullis]

I couldn't get to a dealer at 2500 miles before leaving for the Pyrenees, so loosened the chain so that the amount of deflection was 35mm at the tightest spot. By the time I arrived in the Pyrenees the tight spot had got worse and I could identify the link that was substandard by rotating the rear wheel backwards and watching the action. So the chain got loosened some more.

The bike's now done 4500 miles. I took it last week to Cooper Tunbridge Wells. The mechanic did confirm the chain was knackered but then tried to persuade me that a developing tight spot doesn't actually tighten the chain and tried to place the blame on the adjustment carried out at the 600 mile service by Bahnstormers. What the feck?

He also said that all chains have tight spots and tried to demonstrate this on new bikes undergoing PDI. He said it was important to adjust per the manual with the deflection measured at the tight spot. But the owner's manual doesn't mention tight spots at all.

I am awaiting a warranty decision, but in the meantime am most unimpressed.

Tim

 

[Tim Cullis]

My chain and sprockets will be replaced under warranty. The dealer now has the chain and rear sprocket in stock, but the front sprocket is on hold in Germany.

Well that post was 21 August, I've now learned the sprocket has arrived and I'm booked in for 24 September for new chain/sprocket. Just as well I still have the 1200GSA to take the strain in the meantime.

Tim

 

[Adamski]

After two changes of original chain, second was even worse than the first one, I went for Tsubaki and new sprockets. Everything is good now,
The original chain is Czech production so what can we expect...?
The sprockets are not good either, I checked the back one and it was "jojo" 1,5 mm differences between some places. TT has new front :
http://www.touratech.com/shops/011/index.php?cPath=2_38 and Tsubaki is working on new sprockets too.




http://www.ukgser.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=102365&stc=1&d=1224588957

original chain nr1 did 2000km, 2nd did 1000km, the Tsubaki 5000 km for which I'd pay 100 euro and the sprockets by the dealer cost me 96 euro.
I'm guessing here, but I think the chain quality mess with the sprockets and because of this they become "jojo" at list the big one If you keep ridding with this bad chain then there is a chance that other things can go wrong.
cheers
adam

 

[Michaelbrown]

CHAIN SNAPPED

Had a chain snap on me the other day on a overtake at about 70mph, felt a slight hesitation and a strange noise, come off the throttle and was doing 60 mph in 5th gear at 1200rpm......mmmm. r

olled to a stop within hour and a half bike was having a new chain being fitted even though this is not listed on the warranty. But lind in norwich have a good customer service reputation and i think they like to keep it that way especially after only 1500 miles. However after 350 miles i checked chain play today and had 70mm of play on the side stand!!!!!

adjusted it myself to 35mm like the label says, The dealer says this is the first one they have changed, but also says this maybe the start of another problem... lets hope not. So chapps and chappesses keep and eye on the tension, i was lucky it seemed to unwind itself with no damage to the bike at all, so i think its time to play the lottery.

I was lubing the chain with castrol chain wax that says it suitable for o-ring chains i thought it may not be liquid enough in cold temps and was restricting the chains movement so going for standard chain oil, but may be completely wrong.

Just Thought id give you all a heads up.

Mikey Brown

 

[jolyon_russ]

Chain and Sprocket + Scottoiler

Ok, a couple of questions here so bear with me.

My chain's done about 4.5k miles and from what I can tell is pretty knackered. I'll admit I've been pretty crap and looking after it but it looks like the winter salt has really taken it's toll, there are a few tight spots. So I've decided it's time for a scottoiler and a new set.

I imagine the chain and sprockets aren't covered by the warranty, right?

If I get them replaced at a Mottorad dealer will they replace it with the same quality chain?

I called Battersea and they quoted:

£46.70 for sprockets
£64.00 for chain
£154.00 for labour

Now I know the Scottoiler is about £45-50 but I'm not sure if the labour includes fitting that, but still, it seem steep, no?

If I source the parts myself and take it to another bike place in London will I run the risk of voiding my warranty?

Can anyone recommend somewhere else good in the greater London area I can call to get a comparison quote?

I'm still too petrified to do this kind of work myself

Thanks in advance.


Jolyon

 

[Michaelbrown]

Chain Snapped again after 600 miles!!!

Just had another chain snap on me at 2100 miles after the other broke at 1500 miles, still being replaced under warranty, i think some guys are right about the chain quality being rather duff.

Starting to lose confidence in the bike now boths times i was lucky to be upright and not much traffic. This time they spoke to BMW and they want the chains and sprokets sent in so they can look at them and hopefully they may do something about this issue.

Chain was lubed after it was standing in the garage for a month while i was playing in america. and then lubed on the day it snapped. Just thought id stick it on here to give everyone a heads up!

 

[Ozkiwi]

Crap OEM chain on 800GS

Ok guys, to put this in perspective.
I have owned over 50 bikes, I have had about 2/3rds offroad/enduro bikes.
I have never owned a shaft drive
I have never had a chain break on a bike, I have had some chains that were totally neglected and pretty much never lubed. They still lasted quite some time and under competition use.

To assess the state of wear in the chain I use to take it off and measure the drop in the chain while held horizontal (on it side with sideplates down).
If the droop was more than 1" the cahin was definately worn.
Some times I would just grab the chain on the bike and pull it sideways and see how far it moved.

I did a days offroad riding yesterday and checked the chain on my bike today.
More than 1" of sideways movement, which to my experience means the chain is cactus!.
This was the 1st time the bike has been offroad and the bike has only just done 780km's. 200km's offroad yesterday.

I have order a new DID heavy duty O ring chain today.

I am not going to even bother talking to BMW about there pathetic 'pushbike' chain they have put on a very pricey bike that is marketed as 'unstoppable'.
One ride offroad has nearly stopped it. I am not going to chance a chain breakage as it would definetely happen at the worst place/time.
My life is worth more than a new 'decent' chain.

My advise to anyone taking the F800GS offroad is to change the OEM chain for a quality chain ASAP. Dont wait till your sprockets are shagged as that will only highten the chance of the chain breaking.

To those with warranty claims in, good luck and I hope you get a better quality of chain under the warranty process.
I can only assume that the warranty is better than that we get here in Australia where the BMW service is crap and any warrantee queries are like being questioned over a child murder.

Ok I feel a little better now..

 

[Micky]

The OE chains, marked CZ, are naff

My first one was OK at 12,000 miles, but changed it 'in case' because I was going off roading in Morocco, including riding down there!

That broke at 6,000 miles even though it was showing little wear

Now on HD DID replacement

You'll find that your OE chain will show little wear, you're totally happy with it, then it will go on self destruct in a very short period of time

 

[TERRY RYAN]

i have just dumped the bmw chain after my first one had a link break
and the second one didnt do my confidence any good
fitted a iris 525 gold dont know if its just me but the bike seems to ride alot smoother i.e dont feel it judder from back end if thats a good way to explain it


and as a woman said to me the gold chain matches the gold front forks

 

[lunchbox]

Chain break problems

Bought 5k F800GS at weekend from Newcastle. It had new chain under warranty 2 months and 200 miles ago after the original broke. Got as far as Glossop and ping...inner side plate broke. I have spent about 4 hours this morning reading every available web forum thread on this issue (both sides of the Atlantic) and have come to the conclusion that a new DID x-ring or similar, even at my own expense, is a better option than waiting for my local dealer to replace it under warranty with some cheap rubbish I can't rely on.

Thanks to all those of you who posted about this issue for helping me identify the problem - BMW sadly cutting corners on quality! Both SOS Motorcycle recovery drivers (many thanks to Steve and Gareth) said that they now get more calls to recover BMWs than any other make - what a pity!

On the plus side I had six hours of fun crossing Northumberland and the Dales by small A and B roads and find the 800 far better for that sort of thing than my old R1200GS. It is lighter, smaller and more agile and seems to accelerate and hold speed just as well thanks to a similar power to wait ratio. Pity they didn't design it with a lightweight shaft drive!!

 

[lunchbox]

New chain & sprockets

I have now fitted a new DID gold heavy duty X ring chain and (unfortunately) BMW sprockets as I couldn't find any aftermarket steel ones. I spoke to BMW customer care (ha ha) who said the had no knowledge of problems with chains!! and would only replace under warranty with the same CZ chain. Also they would not replace the sprockets as these are "consumables", even though the rear was damaged by the chain.

I decided that buying a chain splitter/riveter for £50 was better than paying the dealer to do it plus paying for my own chain and sprockets. Then of course the splitter pin broke! I managed to finish the job with the help of a punch and the riveter and all has been well so far. At least the seller refunded for the splitter/riveter and my return postage - BMW take heed of good service!

I am in the process of writing to BMW about all this and will include comments from this thread and others in the USA where there is also a problem. Legal Action is an option and I will definitely be writing to several of the bike mags. Watch this space.