Deleted account AWRT
Registered user
Just as a matter of interest, are those bikes with broken chains from a certain year? or are they sporadic. I have a 2009 bike about 5 weeks old done 1700miles so far and all i can say is i have never seen this much stretch in a new chain in my young 11 years of riding. 
pt0310
Registered user
update
Got a reply back from the aftersales manager at Coopers explaining due to the seriousness he has emailede BMW about my chain. He offered me a loan bike until the situation is resolved so i have just dropped my bike off and picked up a lovely x country
I Explained to the service advisor that i didnt want another cheap chain fitted and wanted a heavy duty one, he said they could not do that as BMW dont do one but several people have paid to have heavy duty ones!!!! Why would they do that if the original was not a problem?? He couldnt or wouldnt answer that!
We will see what happens!
Got a reply back from the aftersales manager at Coopers explaining due to the seriousness he has emailede BMW about my chain. He offered me a loan bike until the situation is resolved so i have just dropped my bike off and picked up a lovely x country
I Explained to the service advisor that i didnt want another cheap chain fitted and wanted a heavy duty one, he said they could not do that as BMW dont do one but several people have paid to have heavy duty ones!!!! Why would they do that if the original was not a problem?? He couldnt or wouldnt answer that!
We will see what happens!
pt0310
Registered user
Update 2
Have recieved an email today telling me that after a long conversation with between the aftersales manager at Coopers and BMW uk, BMW are sending out a 'modified' chain for my bike and it should arive friday or monday. They are fitting this with new sprokets. Will let you know what it is like etc when I collect it!
Have recieved an email today telling me that after a long conversation with between the aftersales manager at Coopers and BMW uk, BMW are sending out a 'modified' chain for my bike and it should arive friday or monday. They are fitting this with new sprokets. Will let you know what it is like etc when I collect it!
easyman05
Registered user
count me in - the dealer checked the chain and found two cracks in one link. 13400 km. Will replace it by DID along with the sprockets.
lunchbox
Registered user
thanks
Thanks for your support Bris Mac. The chain was fitted by Coopers in Jan 09 and broke 500 miles later as I was riding it home through Derbyshire. When I bought it in Newcastle there was a small amount of surface rust showing through the grease but there was no obvious stiffness or damage to the links which is the important thing. Most of the rusting you see in the photo occured after I replaced the chain with a DID and left it in my garage. If you check some of the US forums several people have reported rusting on well lubricated chains.
The real point Fanum is that surface rust will not cause a link, or any piece of metal for that matter, to shear in this way, only metal fatigue, a manufacturing fault or an enormous force will do that. Although I was riding the hill out of Glossop in a "spirited way" there is no way the force exerted by this beautiful 85hp motor should break even a 15k plus chain, never mind a new one.
I have worked as a bike mechanic and a metal worker and have been riding bikes since I was 16, 40 years ago - believe me I know what I am talking about. My mate, also a long time biker, who has a degree in metalurgy and worked on aircraft titanium development for BAC, has looked at it and says that this failure is probably due to the use of substandard materials, poor manufacturing process and lack of quality control.
I have been working very hard for several months to get BMW to admit to a problem with this CZ chain, helped enormously by the posts on this great forum, but I do get a bit angry when fellow riders who have not had problems start to criticise those of us who have for complaining (hence my rather sharp retort to Madaddy last week - sorry!).
This is a serious problem that could cause a serious accident and the responsible manufacturer is adopting the ostrich position - head in the sand. It is only by everyone who is having a problem going to BMW through their dealer (and by writing direct to customer service) that we may get some recognition and action. If a break happened when you were out riding then I urge you to report it to VOSA at
http://www.vosa.gov.uk/
or use the form Tim Cullis has helpfully put up on his website at
http://docs.google.com/Edit?docid=dg4d3k68_6hqwfbxc2
And just for those people who feel a little bit hurt any time anyone criticises their motorbike.....I love my 800gs, I really do - it is the most fun I have had since my XT500 in the late '70s. If it just had a high quality chain then it would be absolutely perfect (and a comfy seat...and perhaps a higher screen...oh errr!)
Thanks for your support Bris Mac. The chain was fitted by Coopers in Jan 09 and broke 500 miles later as I was riding it home through Derbyshire. When I bought it in Newcastle there was a small amount of surface rust showing through the grease but there was no obvious stiffness or damage to the links which is the important thing. Most of the rusting you see in the photo occured after I replaced the chain with a DID and left it in my garage. If you check some of the US forums several people have reported rusting on well lubricated chains.
The real point Fanum is that surface rust will not cause a link, or any piece of metal for that matter, to shear in this way, only metal fatigue, a manufacturing fault or an enormous force will do that. Although I was riding the hill out of Glossop in a "spirited way" there is no way the force exerted by this beautiful 85hp motor should break even a 15k plus chain, never mind a new one.
I have worked as a bike mechanic and a metal worker and have been riding bikes since I was 16, 40 years ago - believe me I know what I am talking about. My mate, also a long time biker, who has a degree in metalurgy and worked on aircraft titanium development for BAC, has looked at it and says that this failure is probably due to the use of substandard materials, poor manufacturing process and lack of quality control.
I have been working very hard for several months to get BMW to admit to a problem with this CZ chain, helped enormously by the posts on this great forum, but I do get a bit angry when fellow riders who have not had problems start to criticise those of us who have for complaining (hence my rather sharp retort to Madaddy last week - sorry!).
This is a serious problem that could cause a serious accident and the responsible manufacturer is adopting the ostrich position - head in the sand. It is only by everyone who is having a problem going to BMW through their dealer (and by writing direct to customer service) that we may get some recognition and action. If a break happened when you were out riding then I urge you to report it to VOSA at
http://www.vosa.gov.uk/
or use the form Tim Cullis has helpfully put up on his website at
http://docs.google.com/Edit?docid=dg4d3k68_6hqwfbxc2
And just for those people who feel a little bit hurt any time anyone criticises their motorbike.....I love my 800gs, I really do - it is the most fun I have had since my XT500 in the late '70s. If it just had a high quality chain then it would be absolutely perfect (and a comfy seat...and perhaps a higher screen...oh errr!)
nikp
Registered user
Warranty Stuff
Apologies for the length of this but just wanted to share my findings;
After a recent tour on me F800 bumble bee around the WWII landing beaches in Normandy, a number of issues came up which called for some warranty work to be done today (had to wait 4 weeks to get it in though
).
Firstly... My F8 was purchased 12 months ago and I took delivery in Oct 08. Since then I had covered 4k trouble free miles with none of the gremlins... until france side that is
1. The chain started making a dreadful noise which I put down 'tight spots', so that spoiled the last day - anticipating it being ejected out the back and taking out one of my compadres - thanks to virtuallyeverywhere and shag from this forum for the encouragemnt and fortunately I manged to make the 600 mile trip home without incident. I told BMW about he problem and they told me this morning that they would adjust the chain
... As it happens they have replaced the chain but not the sprockets
is this ok at 4k
2. The fuel guage stopped working correctly - I have had the new Pressure sensor guage fitted today and all seems ok. I hadn't received a recall for it but the dealer kept refering to it as recall work so I guess they'll be doing what they normally do and just make the fix to bikes as they come in for servicing.
3. I had noticed a trace of oil on the outside of the offside barrel which I though was coming from the rocker cover gasket as reported previoulsy by people on this forum. I have been told today that it is actually a 'tell tale' weep hole in the water pump assembly that if it leaks either coolant or oil means one thing or the other (they weren't too specific). Needless to say it appears that mine is weeping both coolant and oil so they are having to take advice from BMW - another day of work coming up I guess HAs anyone else had a weeping 'telltale' ???
4. The garage loaned me a brand spanking new 1200GS for the day which I was both looking forward to but then again not... as I have been thinking of going over to the dark side and this had my wallet quivering all the way... But surprise of all surprises I actually thought the 1200 was a lumpy lumbering piece of junk! Now this is not like me at all... it's new, it's shiny, and it's expensive - so ticks all the boxes, but really... I though it was dreadfull and I couldn't wait to get me 800 back. Don't get me wrong, when you wind the thing up it pulls like a train and the electronically adjustable suspension kept me amused for all of... ohh... 5 miles but I guess it's got that many electrical gadgets on it that it doesn't feel like a riders bike... more of an excercise in over engineering... it's hard to explain but the 800 has you more involved and unless I was planning rider mega mileage then atually - no thanks. I actually feel deflated by the 1200 experience. The 800 is here to stay.
Again, apologies for the ramblings but I wouldn't mind hearing what you guys reckon about putting a new chain on old (4k) sprockets.???
Apologies for the length of this but just wanted to share my findings;
After a recent tour on me F800 bumble bee around the WWII landing beaches in Normandy, a number of issues came up which called for some warranty work to be done today (had to wait 4 weeks to get it in though
).Firstly... My F8 was purchased 12 months ago and I took delivery in Oct 08. Since then I had covered 4k trouble free miles with none of the gremlins... until france side that is
1. The chain started making a dreadful noise which I put down 'tight spots', so that spoiled the last day - anticipating it being ejected out the back and taking out one of my compadres - thanks to virtuallyeverywhere and shag from this forum for the encouragemnt and fortunately I manged to make the 600 mile trip home without incident. I told BMW about he problem and they told me this morning that they would adjust the chain
... As it happens they have replaced the chain but not the sprockets is this ok at 4k2. The fuel guage stopped working correctly - I have had the new Pressure sensor guage fitted today and all seems ok. I hadn't received a recall for it but the dealer kept refering to it as recall work so I guess they'll be doing what they normally do and just make the fix to bikes as they come in for servicing.
3. I had noticed a trace of oil on the outside of the offside barrel which I though was coming from the rocker cover gasket as reported previoulsy by people on this forum. I have been told today that it is actually a 'tell tale' weep hole in the water pump assembly that if it leaks either coolant or oil means one thing or the other (they weren't too specific). Needless to say it appears that mine is weeping both coolant and oil so they are having to take advice from BMW
- another day of work coming up I guess HAs anyone else had a weeping 'telltale' ???4. The garage loaned me a brand spanking new 1200GS for the day which I was both looking forward to but then again not... as I have been thinking of going over to the dark side and this had my wallet quivering all the way... But surprise of all surprises I actually thought the 1200 was a lumpy lumbering piece of junk! Now this is not like me at all... it's new, it's shiny, and it's expensive - so ticks all the boxes, but really... I though it was dreadfull and I couldn't wait to get me 800 back. Don't get me wrong, when you wind the thing up it pulls like a train and the electronically adjustable suspension kept me amused for all of... ohh... 5 miles but I guess it's got that many electrical gadgets on it that it doesn't feel like a riders bike... more of an excercise in over engineering... it's hard to explain but the 800 has you more involved and unless I was planning rider mega mileage then atually - no thanks. I actually feel deflated by the 1200 experience. The 800 is here to stay.
Again, apologies for the ramblings but I wouldn't mind hearing what you guys reckon about putting a new chain on old (4k) sprockets.???
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Nickp: You should never change a chain and leave the old sprockets. My chain was replaced under warranty at about the same mileage as yours and my sprockets were changed out.
My fuel gauge is also all over the place and I've been recovered off the side of the motorway when it prematurely ran out of fuel.
Yes, I've also had the leaking rocket cover gasket, as have others. It will need another day off the road to fix. Seeing as this will involve you in yet more hassle, they should agree to do the sprockets at the same time.
I still have my 1200GSA and I agree, it feels terrible after the turbine smooth F650/800GS.
My fuel gauge is also all over the place and I've been recovered off the side of the motorway when it prematurely ran out of fuel.
Yes, I've also had the leaking rocket cover gasket, as have others. It will need another day off the road to fix. Seeing as this will involve you in yet more hassle, they should agree to do the sprockets at the same time.
I still have my 1200GSA and I agree, it feels terrible after the turbine smooth F650/800GS.
ZZ10
Registered user
We had the CZ chains on the 650's and my original CZ chain on the 800 went 15,000 miles with very little adjustment. The next one snapped at 5,000 miles. No more CZ's for me, free replacements or not.
The CZ's have a habit of, if not broken before, doing some good mileage and then become knakt in a thousand miles. If your's hasn't let you down then great ... but be prepared
I fitted new BMW sprockets along with the chain
Ok, do you mean that great problems with the chain can appear in a short time even when running fine for 12k miles? that sounds no good.
Did you use the 800 chain for 15k miles without problems and replaced it at 15k and the new one snapped at 5k?
I will go for the DID chain but how soon is the question then...Is CZ the brand on the chain?
It really depends on how you've covered those 867kms. If they've been on the highway and the chain has been lubed then you'd be very unlucky if you've done any damage/wear to the sprockets. If on the other hand those 867kms have all been done offroad through dusty, gritty, stoney stuff, then there's a good chance you'll have worn the sprockets to a degree. It also depends on how gently (or not
) you roll on and off the throttle to load and unload the chain.Stick the bike on the centrestand or paddock stand and rotate the rear wheel looking at each tooth in turn - you'll fairly easily spot any hooking or chipping of the teeth. You'll have to remove the front sprocket cover (obviously) to check the front sprocket!!
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Ghostrider
Registered user
Up until today I have not really had any problems with the F800. Minor oil leak which was fixed under warranty at the service.
Even been to Istanbul and back on it without incident.
But today on the way back from town just after completing an overtake the chain failed. A knocking noise started so stoppped and checked everything couldn't find a problem. Carried on for another mile (Intermittent noise) and then it started again, stopped this time spotted a broken link.
Rear sprocket is shagged. Pushed the bike home for the last 3/4 mile. Not a happy bunny I expect better from a quality manufacturer such as BMW.
Will contact BMW(SLM) first thing in the morning.
Heres a picture of the knackered chain.
Ghostrider AKA Geoff
Mine lasted 6300miles
and scottoiler from new
Ghostrider :mad
Even been to Istanbul and back on it without incident.
But today on the way back from town just after completing an overtake the chain failed. A knocking noise started so stoppped and checked everything couldn't find a problem. Carried on for another mile (Intermittent noise) and then it started again, stopped this time spotted a broken link.
Rear sprocket is shagged. Pushed the bike home for the last 3/4 mile. Not a happy bunny I expect better from a quality manufacturer such as BMW.
Will contact BMW(SLM) first thing in the morning.
Heres a picture of the knackered chain.
Ghostrider AKA Geoff
Another one bites the dust.
What mileage had that chain (& bike) done ?
Least you escaped without incident (and got some good exercise for free) . That's what's most annoying about this chain failure issue, and BMW's non-acknowledgement of it. Having a chain snap is a complete roll of the dice. You can end up anywhere from Dead to Crippled to just Pissed Off. This really should be treated as a top priority safety issue; if it was brakes suffering this percentage of premature total failures, it would be. It just seems that dodgy chains are seen as merely an inconvenience.
Mine came back from its initial service with about an inch of slack taken out of the vertical free play. I'd mentioned I thought it was a bit slack, even considering initial stretch, but this didn't prompt him to volunteer any anecdotes about F800GS chains in general. Not that I'd really expect them to.
As regards the GS12 vs GS8 , I test rode the 12 (not the GSA) and wasn't taken by it at all. Very competent, and I had no probs with the engine or vibes, but I just didn't gel with it. Couldn't be bothered
Mine lasted 6300miles
and scottoiler from new
Ghostrider :mad
Deleted account AWRT
Registered user
I know this might sound abit obvious, but all of the people that have had chain failures, have you all written to BMW HQ regarding the failures and quoting this site as reference. I believe alot of the info that is passed onto local dealers stays within their own shop / networks. You must ALL make the effort to write to the big man at BMW.
I pray it won't happen but before long if something is not done we could be discussing a more serious incident or even worse
Tim,
Thank you for taking the time to explain, however i am still fairly new to the club and don't really know what level of support / admin takes place on here. Do we have someone who can write to BMW collectively on behalf of the GS8 Community or is this just a place to browse when people have some slack time. Even though i am only suffering (at the moment
) with a chain that has more stretch in it than an elastic band, i would be more than happy if nominated and agreed with to write to BMW on everybodies behalf. I don't mean to step on anyones toes, just an offer of assitance really.
I pray it won't happen but before long if something is not done we could be discussing a more serious incident or even worseI've given thought to this especially over the fuel pump controller issue on the 1200GS. When a dealer replaces a chain (or FPC) under warranty the labour and parts costs get charged back to BMW. And when people buy spare FPCs 'just in case' BMW has data available when the dealer restocks on the item.
So the information IS available within BMW. Either they are not bothering to monitor it, or they are taking the beancounter view of looking at the costs (to them) of failure vs the cost (to them) of putting the problem right by fitting better quality components or reengineering the parts, and effectively saying, "Well we've only had 50 chain failures in the UK and the cost of recalling the bikes to fit a decent chain is too high." If this is the case it's an extremely shortsighted view as the public perception of BMW Motorrad is that quality is halfway out of the window and about to take the jump into the void.
It's almost as if BMW doesn't give a toss about the cost to us, the customers, in terms of inconvenience and spoilt biking holidays (and of course the safety issue). I'd love to know whether anyone in BMW UK is charged with quality assurance as one of their areas of responsibility.
Tim,
Thank you for taking the time to explain, however i am still fairly new to the club and don't really know what level of support / admin takes place on here. Do we have someone who can write to BMW collectively on behalf of the GS8 Community or is this just a place to browse when people have some slack time. Even though i am only suffering (at the moment
) with a chain that has more stretch in it than an elastic band, i would be more than happy if nominated and agreed with to write to BMW on everybodies behalf. I don't mean to step on anyones toes, just an offer of assitance really.
lunchbox
Registered user
I know this might sound abit obvious, but all of the people that have had chain failures, have you all written to BMW HQ regarding the failures and quoting this site as reference. I believe alot of the info that is passed onto local dealers stays within their own shop / networks. You must ALL make the effort to write to the big man at BMW.
Tim,
Thank you for taking the time to explain, however i am still fairly new to the club and don't really know what level of support / admin takes place on here. Do we have someone who can write to BMW collectively on behalf of the GS8 Community or is this just a place to browse when people have some slack time. Even though i am only suffering (at the moment
It is important for everyone to write to BMW who, as Tim says, will palm you off with a "there is no problem f**k off" letter from someone in customer service who has never been near a bike in their lives. Also write to as much of the bike press as you can manage with links to this forum. I have emailed the manufacturers direct but without reply so far.
http://www.czretezy.cz/obecne/manageme_a.php
I will keep at them because it is their shit we are suffering from. Also write contact VOSA (google it) as they investigate safety issues and send them this form if you have had a chain failure.
http://docs.google.com/Edit?docid=dg4d3k68_8fk3swwfq
If we keep at it we may just get somewhere!
All this scaremongering, thought I better change the chain just in case the inevitable happens, 8k in must be about due to snap. Anyhow D.I.D. vm bought and fitted, photo below shows the difference in links between the old and new. I can now ride with confidence.
Bye the way the old chain looked in pretty good nick..
Jimmy
Bye the way the old chain looked in pretty good nick..
Jimmy
Attachments
Got my 800GS back from Coopers following the chain failure and it has a new chain that is much heavier duty than the original.
Thanks Coopers
happy again
Hey Ghostrider, what chain did they put back on?
lunchbox
Registered user
CZ the response
I have had an interesting email from the MD of CZ in response to my query about F8GS chain failures. It clearly shows that BMW knew about the chain quality problem from the start, but have been denying it to customers and continuing to fit potential rubbish until the replacement was ready. In a letter to me in July BMW customer service, having denied there was a problem in June, now say there is an upgraded chain available to purchase and give themselves a pat on the back for responding to worldwide customer feedback - incredible!!
I am attaching my email correspondence with Frantisek Marek as a Word doc, if that doesn't work I will try a jpeg.
I have had an interesting email from the MD of CZ in response to my query about F8GS chain failures. It clearly shows that BMW knew about the chain quality problem from the start, but have been denying it to customers and continuing to fit potential rubbish until the replacement was ready. In a letter to me in July BMW customer service, having denied there was a problem in June, now say there is an upgraded chain available to purchase and give themselves a pat on the back for responding to worldwide customer feedback - incredible!!
I am attaching my email correspondence with Frantisek Marek as a Word doc, if that doesn't work I will try a jpeg.
nikp
Registered user
Top work Graham
I wonder if they will be issuing a recall, or doing what they seem to do with most things and just do them when the bikes are brought in for routine service?
I took mine in for the fuel guage fix recently and I mentioned the chain issue which was taken without any enthusiasm - all they siad was that they had 'looked at it'. Whilst riding it home the whole bike felt very different and when I got home realised it had got a new chain on. A lot of vibration had also dsaapeared and I'm sure the mapping has been altered also.
Once again - top work. I feel this letter could bevery useful for forum members.
Nik
I wonder if they will be issuing a recall, or doing what they seem to do with most things and just do them when the bikes are brought in for routine service?
I took mine in for the fuel guage fix recently and I mentioned the chain issue which was taken without any enthusiasm - all they siad was that they had 'looked at it'. Whilst riding it home the whole bike felt very different and when I got home realised it had got a new chain on
. A lot of vibration had also dsaapeared and I'm sure the mapping has been altered also.Once again - top work. I feel this letter could bevery useful for forum members.
Nik
lunchbox
Registered user
Thanks Nik, I feel like I have been obsessed by this issue since April when I bought the bike and the chain snapped as I rode it home from Newcastle to Bristol - I'm sure it's not healthy! So far I have written 3 letters to BMW, sent a report to VOSA and emailed Marc Potter and Laura Kennerly at MCN, as well as the CZ emails. It would have been a lot easier to have just paid the £170 the new chain and sprockets cost me and forget it, but I am a stubborn SOAB sometimes (ask my wife!).
I have attached the latest BMW reply scanned as a JPEG and, apart from the fact that customer services don't know a chain from a chain tensioner, I think it shows that BMW have been deceitful to all of us who have reported problems and intend to carry on in that vein hoping the problem will go away without a fuss. I guess it is bound to eventually as all the crap chains are replaced, but I certainly intend to continue making a fuss in an attempt to get recompensed for my loss. If we all do this we may get somewhere.
If anyone is interested I will post the rest of my correspondence with BMW here, it might be useful for anyone planning their own campaign!
I have attached the latest BMW reply scanned as a JPEG and, apart from the fact that customer services don't know a chain from a chain tensioner, I think it shows that BMW have been deceitful to all of us who have reported problems and intend to carry on in that vein hoping the problem will go away without a fuss. I guess it is bound to eventually as all the crap chains are replaced, but I certainly intend to continue making a fuss in an attempt to get recompensed for my loss. If we all do this we may get somewhere.
If anyone is interested I will post the rest of my correspondence with BMW here, it might be useful for anyone planning their own campaign!
Attachments
Graham,
Congratulations on pursuing this issue and getting some answers! I think I am more inclined to blame BMW now than the maker of the chains.
BMW's spin department would do our government proud!
Congratulations on pursuing this issue and getting some answers! I think I am more inclined to blame BMW now than the maker of the chains.
BMW's spin department would do our government proud!
santrix
Registered user
You know, i always read these threads of doom and gloom with a pinch of salt, my bike has done a shade under 12k miles in all conditions, but no off roading and no wheelies lol. Oct 08 bike, scottoiler etc. Just been to have an oil leak fixed and the petrol guage recall and had to come home on a courtesy bike as they deemed my bike un-roadworthy. Why? a massive kink in the chain which they and I am amazed hadn't jumped of the sprockets. So there's another one to add to the count. Infact they took a photo of it as they hadnt had one like that before, and from their attitude im inclined to beleive them.
Up untill they said this i was pretty much of the opinion that these doom and gloom threads were just isolated. Thankfully they noticed where i had not, wether it happenned on the way to the dealer i don't know, and don't care, i'm just glad it wasnt at 70 on the M-way.
Wont mention the dealer but apparently BMW buy and sell the chains to dealers for 28 quid. Go figure. Anyway getting a non BMW part put on. I know we should all check our bikes over before we ride them but i dont wanto have to spend 5 mins every time i get on it checking the chain and to be honest you might check it, and its fine and in 20 miles, it goes.
My advice, change it.
Up untill they said this i was pretty much of the opinion that these doom and gloom threads were just isolated. Thankfully they noticed where i had not, wether it happenned on the way to the dealer i don't know, and don't care, i'm just glad it wasnt at 70 on the M-way.
Wont mention the dealer but apparently BMW buy and sell the chains to dealers for 28 quid. Go figure. Anyway getting a non BMW part put on. I know we should all check our bikes over before we ride them but i dont wanto have to spend 5 mins every time i get on it checking the chain and to be honest you might check it, and its fine and in 20 miles, it goes.
My advice, change it.
