ace supreme
Guest
i think 10000 miles is a fair distance. your chain looks very dry. what exactly does 'semi regularly' mean?
A quick query for my learned chums! I've ridden bikes for 30 years now, and have always lubed my chain as soon as I got home, whilst the chain was still hot. The theory being that as the lube hits the hot chain it would contract and suck the oil past the 'O' rings. However, in one of this months bike mags (Ride?), it says to always do it cold otherwise most of the oil just evaporates. Who's right? BTW, I'm about to fit an Acumen CL10 intelligent chain oiler, which seems to have many advantages over the Scottoiler, I'll take some pics and post it here.
ide508
Registered user
Lube it when it's warm 
lunchbox
Registered user
The whole point of O and X ring chains is that the rubber ring traps the grease in and keeps the shit out! As for sucking oil past the O ring..... the main cause of chain wear is friction between unlubricated surfaces and a by-product of friction is heat, so if the chain gets hot enough to expand the metal to that degree there is too much friction happening and that means a lack of lubrication. Also metal does not cool down so fast that a spray of cold liquid will cause immediate contraction, even if it did the chain roller and pin expand and contract together so no vacuum would be formed on contraction.
The grease trapped behind the O ring will lubricate the pins of the chain but the rollers need lubricating where they run against the sprocket and the sideplates where they move against the sprocket and each other. The main thing to watch is that the chain does not dry out. A spray of sticky lube contains a solvent which should carry the thick lube between the chains mating surfaces before evaporating - you can often see it fizzing on the chain as you apply it. Some say that sticky lube attracts particles that act as a grinding paste between the mating surfaces, so increasing wear, however this is likely to be minimal on-road with a good chain, regularly lubed.
Personally I prefer a Scotoiler because I am too lazy to lube my chain regularly and the Scotoiler does it for me constantly. Although there is a bit of throw-off onto the rear rim it doesn't bother me (and stops the spokes from rusting), also the thinner oil penetrates between the surfaces better that thick lube or grease. If the oil is throwing all over the place then the Scotoiler is turned up too high - the chain only needs to be damp, not soaking. The kind of oils used on bikes do not evaporate at normal temperatures so the magazine journalist is talking out his or her arse (not unusual), unless they meant that the solvent in the lube evaporates too quickly to carry the oil in between the mating surfaces properly, which is possible but unlikely.
Sorry for such a long post. Everyone has their favourite theory and method of lubing chains, and long may we argue and discuss, but the important thing is that what we do is based on good science and not on nonsense theories and old wives tales that still seem to abound. Happy riding!
chad
Registered user
For those of you who have been following my attempts to hold BMW to account for all these chain failures (see my previous posts), I have again spoken to Martin Ryder at VOSA (Vehicle and Operator Services Agency) who deal with safety issue and recalls etc. Apparently after telling VOSA that they would be acting on the chain failure issue, BMW UK sent BMW Germany a "stinking" (his words) email, which they copied to Martin, asking for direction about what to do.
I told him there are still failures happening and he again sent a very strong plea for all who experience this whilst riding to send a report to him. The form is simple and available on the VOSA website at:
http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/onlineservices/vehiclerecalls/vehiclerecalls.htm
Apparently I am still the only one who has done this and BMW have hardly any failure reports on their UK database (which means they are not being recorded as warranty failure issues). This weakens his case, so it is important to write to BMW Customer services as well as going to your local dealer.
We know the OE chains are crap - even the manufacturers CZ admit it (see my previous posts again). Unless we act BMW never will. Anyway, enough from me today!
Yeah, last year more people seemed interested in doing something about it but interest seems to have dropped off. Still it has been interesting, particularly the very honest responses I got from CZ about their crap chains, contrasted with the total denial from BMW of any problem, then of any responsibility for sorting it. I will probably follow up what happens with VOSA then give up and get a life!
I told him there are still failures happening and he again sent a very strong plea for all who experience this whilst riding to send a report to him. The form is simple and available on the VOSA website at:
http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/onlineservices/vehiclerecalls/vehiclerecalls.htm
Apparently I am still the only one who has done this and BMW have hardly any failure reports on their UK database (which means they are not being recorded as warranty failure issues). This weakens his case, so it is important to write to BMW Customer services as well as going to your local dealer.
We know the OE chains are crap - even the manufacturers CZ admit it (see my previous posts again). Unless we act BMW never will. Anyway, enough from me today!
if your the only one whose wrote inthen your kind of banging your head against the wall
Yeah, last year more people seemed interested in doing something about it but interest seems to have dropped off. Still it has been interesting, particularly the very honest responses I got from CZ about their crap chains, contrasted with the total denial from BMW of any problem, then of any responsibility for sorting it. I will probably follow up what happens with VOSA then give up and get a life!
Dean
Registered user
I'm in your chain gang
There seems to be a lot of confusion and talk about this, it is comon knowledge that there have been bad quality chains. My own case was before becoming a forum member it was pointed out to keep an eye on the chain by a fellow GSer. after getting a lot of chain noise i just did not want to wait took it of my own back to change to DID heavy duty (gold blingy).
with the view that at that point sprockets were fine and it's job done
I did not want to return it to BMW for them to either tell me all was OK or put exactly the same cheap quality chain on.
Thinking ahead April's copy of Visor Down (out now) where a large part of there survey was conducted here in the 650 and 800 twins section! of the 8 page warts and all (quotes from forum members printed ((so negative
i'm speeking about the 650 input )) .)
Anyhow page 115 Chains quotes " Chains some were part of a duff patch and wore very quickly or even broke. This is dangerous. A BMW dealer should replace any in the the affected frame number range"
So what is the frame range?
who quoted the frame range? are they saying the problem is now solved on newer bikes?
should not the frame range be recalled automaticaly as a problem has been identified and rectified. or are you sayin BMW are waiting for us to tell them that we know what they know
Dean
There seems to be a lot of confusion and talk about this, it is comon knowledge that there have been bad quality chains. My own case was before becoming a forum member it was pointed out to keep an eye on the chain by a fellow GSer. after getting a lot of chain noise i just did not want to wait took it of my own back to change to DID heavy duty (gold blingy).
with the view that at that point sprockets were fine and it's job done
I did not want to return it to BMW for them to either tell me all was OK or put exactly the same cheap quality chain on.
Thinking ahead April's copy of Visor Down (out now) where a large part of there survey was conducted here in the 650 and 800 twins section! of the 8 page warts and all (quotes from forum members printed ((so negative
i'm speeking about the 650 input )) .)Anyhow page 115 Chains quotes " Chains some were part of a duff patch and wore very quickly or even broke. This is dangerous. A BMW dealer should replace any in the the affected frame number range"
So what is the frame range?
who quoted the frame range? are they saying the problem is now solved on newer bikes?should not the frame range be recalled automaticaly as a problem has been identified and rectified. or are you sayin BMW are waiting for us to tell them that we know what they know
Dean
And another one....
Chain broke this morning as I was leaving the house. I was only doing about 5mph 'cos there's a right turn onto the road - chain broke and went under the rear wheel, rear wheel goes sideways and then everything stops except that the bike is now leant over and I can't hold it up so down we both go with me under the bike! Anyway, the nice whitevan-man who was hurtling up the road stopped and helped me up with the bike and putting it back in the drive. Then phone call to BMW Assist who recovered that bike which is now at Rainbow (who ,as always, have been absolutley superb) waiting for calls to BMW UK to check whether they WILL put on a DID chain.
Have downloaded the VOSA form and will write to BMW UK. Avmac and I have both had chains break in the last 3 weeks and are feeling like venting a bit of spleen. If we get any positive response we'll post it on here.
Be careful out there...
P
Chain broke this morning as I was leaving the house. I was only doing about 5mph 'cos there's a right turn onto the road - chain broke and went under the rear wheel, rear wheel goes sideways and then everything stops except that the bike is now leant over and I can't hold it up so down we both go with me under the bike! Anyway, the nice whitevan-man who was hurtling up the road stopped and helped me up with the bike and putting it back in the drive. Then phone call to BMW Assist who recovered that bike which is now at Rainbow (who ,as always, have been absolutley superb) waiting for calls to BMW UK to check whether they WILL put on a DID chain.
Have downloaded the VOSA form and will write to BMW UK. Avmac and I have both had chains break in the last 3 weeks and are feeling like venting a bit of spleen. If we get any positive response we'll post it on here.
Be careful out there...
P
GunZenBomZ
Registered user
Unlucky Harry, I was amazed at the good condition of your chain from Gregs maintenance day as it looked new. Didn't pay much attention to the side view.
PJ1 chain oil! The mofo baddest you can get...I'm told & telling you now
I'd get yourself a DiD chain from motorworks ILMV & whats your name tag actually stand for bud? Some sort of blue rinse..
Got myself the heavy duty jobbie myself & I can not forget about my chain as it were, even though its oiled every evening.
PJ1 chain oil! The mofo baddest you can get...I'm told & telling you now
I'd get yourself a DiD chain from motorworks ILMV & whats your name tag actually stand for bud? Some sort of blue rinse..
Got myself the heavy duty jobbie myself & I can not forget about my chain as it were, even though its oiled every evening.
santrix
Registered user
I suggest everyone fills that form in... i am doing it now...
am i right in thinking the form is this one?
http://www.vosa.gov.uk/vosa/repository/vehicle safety defect report.doc
and should be filled in and mailed to;
[email protected]
am i right in thinking the form is this one?
http://www.vosa.gov.uk/vosa/repository/vehicle safety defect report.doc
and should be filled in and mailed to;
[email protected]
Dean
Registered user
report your faulty chain
Hi Harleyquin,
Sorry to hear about your off, due to your chain hope all is ok with you and your bike. Reading your post made my cringe with how much worse it could have been all due to a allegedly dodgy chain.
I decided to get off the fence and complete and sent the Vosa form, there must be riders out there of F800 and F650 who are not members of this forum and who also have not read Visor down or anything about the "dodgy chains" and they deserrve a notification from BMW. Before they have a serious off
By filling out the form you tick the box that you agree that what you write is usable as evidence and presented to BMW so by notifying VOSA at the same time you are writing to BMW
http://www.vosa.gov.uk/vosa/reposito...t report.doc
I have just downloaded the VOSA form and emailed it on it’s so easy to do word format so did not need to print it off just save and email!
Mayby it takes so many hundred or thousands of vosa formr to flag up a recall lets hope it does not lead to a death before this point.
there is a box for additional information and in the hope that BMW do read it i wrote:
The chain on my motor bike was defective, but due to hearing this before many times by fellow riders of the F650GS and F800GS. I did not want BMW to fit another of the same sub standard chain under the warranty so opted to fit a heavy duty chain of my choice!
I consider myself lucky that my chain gave out at a convenient moment in a safe environment just by chance, and not at higher speed or in traffic.
I do not have photographic or the original parts as evidence but I do have an independent witness to the original chain and rectifying work carried out.
I would also add that it becoming more and more wide spread news between owners of the F800GS and F650GS that there is a serious problem .
So much so that a recent article in the April addition of the motor cycle magazine visor down wrote 8 pages on these bikes and as regarding chains they printed and I quote –
" Chains some were part of a duff patch and wore very quickly or even broke. This is dangerous. A BMW dealer should replace any in the affected frame number range"
I’m very disappointed that BMW have not addressed this issue by writing to owners and recalled the affected frame number range as this problem is wide spread and known to many.
safe riding, Dean
http://www.vosa.gov.uk/vosa/reposito...t report.doc
Hi Harleyquin,
Sorry to hear about your off, due to your chain hope all is ok with you and your bike. Reading your post made my cringe with how much worse it could have been all due to a allegedly dodgy chain.
I decided to get off the fence and complete and sent the Vosa form, there must be riders out there of F800 and F650 who are not members of this forum and who also have not read Visor down or anything about the "dodgy chains" and they deserrve a notification from BMW. Before they have a serious off
By filling out the form you tick the box that you agree that what you write is usable as evidence and presented to BMW so by notifying VOSA at the same time you are writing to BMW
http://www.vosa.gov.uk/vosa/reposito...t report.doc
I have just downloaded the VOSA form and emailed it on it’s so easy to do word format so did not need to print it off just save and email!
Mayby it takes so many hundred or thousands of vosa formr to flag up a recall lets hope it does not lead to a death before this point.
there is a box for additional information and in the hope that BMW do read it i wrote:
The chain on my motor bike was defective, but due to hearing this before many times by fellow riders of the F650GS and F800GS. I did not want BMW to fit another of the same sub standard chain under the warranty so opted to fit a heavy duty chain of my choice!
I consider myself lucky that my chain gave out at a convenient moment in a safe environment just by chance, and not at higher speed or in traffic.
I do not have photographic or the original parts as evidence but I do have an independent witness to the original chain and rectifying work carried out.
I would also add that it becoming more and more wide spread news between owners of the F800GS and F650GS that there is a serious problem .
So much so that a recent article in the April addition of the motor cycle magazine visor down wrote 8 pages on these bikes and as regarding chains they printed and I quote –
" Chains some were part of a duff patch and wore very quickly or even broke. This is dangerous. A BMW dealer should replace any in the affected frame number range"
I’m very disappointed that BMW have not addressed this issue by writing to owners and recalled the affected frame number range as this problem is wide spread and known to many.
safe riding, Dean
http://www.vosa.gov.uk/vosa/reposito...t report.doc
VOSA form submitted
Thanks to Lunchbox and Tim for the VOSA form. I have now completed and submitted mine and Harleyquin is about to do the same for his recent 09 650GS chain failure (at 3,500 miles).
Despite having bought a DID chain from them, following my CZ chain failure, Rainbow were instructed by BMW Head Office that they were not allowed to fit the DID under warranty (not OE). I was refunded the cost without question
but I am not feeling confident in the replacement CZ as it was showing signs of surface rust 3 days after leaving the dealership & when correctly lubed.
Has anyone had a failure of the supposedly improved CZ chains?
Despite my frustration, I still love my 650GS
'cos she's such great fun.
Thanks to Lunchbox and Tim for the VOSA form. I have now completed and submitted mine and Harleyquin is about to do the same for his recent 09 650GS chain failure (at 3,500 miles).
Despite having bought a DID chain from them, following my CZ chain failure, Rainbow were instructed by BMW Head Office that they were not allowed to fit the DID under warranty (not OE). I was refunded the cost without question
but I am not feeling confident in the replacement CZ as it was showing signs of surface rust 3 days after leaving the dealership & when correctly lubed. Has anyone had a failure of the supposedly improved CZ chains?
Despite my frustration, I still love my 650GS
'cos she's such great fun.Somebody is telling porkies as I completed the form a few days after my chain snapped at the end of January and have received an acknowledgement from VOSA.
lunchbox
Registered user
Apologies to you Sharik, I was referring to a conversation with Martin Ryder of VOSA before Xmas. Thanks to all you others who are reporting in, hopefully we will be in time to get some acknowledgement and action from BMW on those chains that are still fitted, and if we persist maybe some retrospective satisfaction for those of us who have fitted non OE replacements at our own expense. I think it is still important for those affected to write to BMW customer service and to insist our dealers report failure as a warranty claim, not a service item, otherwise the true stats are not available to VOSA when they investigate.
As far as the new "improved" CZ chains are concerned Avmac7, I would want some kind of assurance that what has been fitted is a new improved chain, many of us have had replacements break as well as the original. Surface rust was a noticeable feature of the original, faulty CZ chain - I do not know about the improved ones (I think Tim had one fitted?). Surface rust itself will not cause failure in the short term but in the long term it will cause the pins and plates to corrode and weaken. This indicates poor material composition and should not be acceptable on a modern chain (or a modern anything come to that!)
everywherevirtually
Registered user
Word on the street is "Yicker" from these ere parts has had a chain failure in Augsburg, Deutschland . On a Sunday morning too
Stevie73 is with him but as all shops are closed I would think BMW Assist is the only option.
We plan to meet up but I think their plan to camp in Slovenia tonight is kaputt as we say in Austria
will let you know the outcome either later on or tomorrow
Stevie73 is with him but as all shops are closed I would think BMW Assist is the only option.
We plan to meet up but I think their plan to camp in Slovenia tonight is kaputt as we say in Austria
will let you know the outcome either later on or tomorrow
GringoRojo
Registered user
another one
the chain on Mrs Gringo's* 650 went bang this afternoon (Sunday) with no notice. the bike is a July 09 ex demonstrator that we bought last October (2009) and only has done around 2000miles. I've fitted a Scottoiler in January and if anything it's still set too high.
to say I'm pi$$ed off is an understatement as when we bought the bike I asked the salesman at Bishopbriggs about the various problems these bikes have had including chains and the reply was very noncommital.
we were bimbling along some backroads west of Glasgow and as we rounded an uphill lefthander at about 30-40 max I saw something hanging from the right rear of her bike which as it kicked out I realised was her chain. luckily she coasted to a junction a few yards uphill. she says it just suddenly went as she was changing down a gear with no warning knocking or anything. just a thump as she changed down then a horrid noise that would be the chain spitting out. I don't really want to imagine what might have been if that had happened on the motorway (we almost took the bikes last night to head through to Edinburgh, but decided to go in the car instead thankfully)
my Fazer thou has done 97,000 miles and is on it's 5th/6th chain - all HD. but even the OE chain lasted 20k so there's no excuse for using cheap and dangerous parts on what is definately not a budget bike!
her bike has been recovered by contractors via BMW Assist and will be at the dealer on Tuesday (as they shut Sunday Monday). I've printed the VOSA form and will be emailing both the dealer and BMW to politely ask that an HD chain is fitted under warranty.
*she doesn't do forums
the chain on Mrs Gringo's* 650 went bang this afternoon (Sunday) with no notice. the bike is a July 09 ex demonstrator that we bought last October (2009) and only has done around 2000miles. I've fitted a Scottoiler in January and if anything it's still set too high.
to say I'm pi$$ed off is an understatement as when we bought the bike I asked the salesman at Bishopbriggs about the various problems these bikes have had including chains and the reply was very noncommital.
we were bimbling along some backroads west of Glasgow and as we rounded an uphill lefthander at about 30-40 max I saw something hanging from the right rear of her bike which as it kicked out I realised was her chain. luckily she coasted to a junction a few yards uphill. she says it just suddenly went as she was changing down a gear with no warning knocking or anything. just a thump as she changed down then a horrid noise that would be the chain spitting out. I don't really want to imagine what might have been if that had happened on the motorway (we almost took the bikes last night to head through to Edinburgh, but decided to go in the car instead thankfully)
my Fazer thou has done 97,000 miles and is on it's 5th/6th chain - all HD. but even the OE chain lasted 20k so there's no excuse for using cheap and dangerous parts on what is definately not a budget bike!
her bike has been recovered by contractors via BMW Assist and will be at the dealer on Tuesday (as they shut Sunday Monday). I've printed the VOSA form and will be emailing both the dealer and BMW to politely ask that an HD chain is fitted under warranty.
*she doesn't do forums
It took me a while, but...
I finally got round to filling in the VOSA form and sending it off...
My chain broke with just 139 miles on the clock.
I now have a DID x-ring chain fitted with a Scottoiler and 2500+ miles without any issues. Like many on here, the idea of letting BMW fit another crap chain was just too much of a risk, although they did replace the rear light lens which was broken when the chain came off (and had the chain grease embedded in it to prove it!).
Still love the bike, though
I finally got round to filling in the VOSA form and sending it off...
My chain broke with just 139 miles on the clock.
I now have a DID x-ring chain fitted with a Scottoiler and 2500+ miles without any issues. Like many on here, the idea of letting BMW fit another crap chain was just too much of a risk, although they did replace the rear light lens which was broken when the chain came off (and had the chain grease embedded in it to prove it!).
Still love the bike, though
Blobby
Registered user
139 miles! Is that a record for the shortest surviving chain?
I went to NOG today, and although they won't say it, I think they are as frustrated as us with BMW over this kind of issue. I asked about the chain recall, and although they are aware of it, they do not know of any specifics. There were two interesting points though:
1; One of their customers is soon off touring, and has ordered spare sprockets. When the order was placed with BMW, he noticed that they had over 600 in stock, which might give a clue to the number of bikes being recalled.
2: Whilst I was there, I saw an AA lorry unloading an F800GS who's chain had just snapped. It was an 08 plate, just like mine. Unfortunately I didn't get to speak to the rider.
mr badger
Registered user
Had a look at Madame's chain on her 800 yesterday. It looks terrible, Slappy and jerky with one distinct 'limp' where there is clearly a sticking link. I can't imagine what could happen if it goes bang, especially if we're in the wilds of Scotland.
Can't wait for a recall/warranty sort out so will be shelling out for a DID later today.
The only issue is getting someone to fit it. Local BMW dealer will only fit 'proper' BMW parts.
Will try local specialist KRF if they ever answer their phone.
Can't wait for a recall/warranty sort out so will be shelling out for a DID later today.
The only issue is getting someone to fit it. Local BMW dealer will only fit 'proper' BMW parts
.Will try local specialist KRF if they ever answer their phone.
