1150GS ABS issues

[bimmerboxer]

I am certain that this has been covered before but I think I need some advice.
With a new battery (BMW 0riginal), bike on a battery tender most all the time, ABS resetted (I'm now pretty good at that procedure with the Brown/Blue wire ground), the ABS comes on fine when I ride off.

Stop at the shops for 10 minutes, start the bike fine, and the ABS lights stays on, flashing alternately, signifying that the ABS is off.

My setup is as original (ie running lights on with the ignition switch) and I have no accessories plugged in.

I've heard that disconnecting the headlamps helps but isn't this veering from the design of the highly praised BMW engineers??

Any help please??

 

[Packer]

What year is your bike? Are the brakes the servo variety or not?

Is there a reason why you have the battery on a "tender" most of the time?

The battery may still be knackered even though it seems OK as a result of being constantly on trickle charge.

 

[MattW]

My guess would be the battery, 11xx's are demanding of batteries and ABS issues are often a sign that it's on it's way out. How old is the battery? Bear in mind that battery tenders or smart chargers aren't very clever - they will often say you've got a healthy battery even if it's lost a load of capacity.

The other thing it could be is the started motor - another 11xx issue. The magnets can come unglued and cause very high starting currents which pull the battery voltage so low that the ABS fails the startup diagnostic. Do you have the facilities to measure the starter current? See here for how to strip the starter to check the magnets (quick, easy job if you're reasonably confident taking stuff to bits):
http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php?t=207984

 

[bimmerboxer]

These are excellent questions prompting me to go back a few months.
One day on a planned 3 day tour, stopping for lunch, the Bike refused to start up again and I obviously damaged the starter (falling magnets). Cut my trip short and limped backed some 300km after a push start.

Have a new starter now (rebuilt) and a brand new "outoftheboxhitmywalletsohard" BMW sealed battery. Because of this experience, I keep the battery 'conditioned' for I get out maybe once in 2 weeks.

Was fine for a while but now acting up again. Will look at the current drawn from the rebuilt starter but wonder if I dare leave the battery without a trickle for long periods, this time not wanting to damage it.

 

[bimmerboxer]

Sorry, the GS is a 2001, non servo.

 

[DrFarkoff]

Rules for an Oilhead !!! Don;t keep using a schit battery You WILL knacker the starter or the Electronics its a false economy Odysey PC680 is best but maybe you cant afford that much I isntalled a PC545 for a friend as thier bike was suffering It's a shorter battery but the extra cappacity means it spins the 1150 over easy!

Anyway back to ABS issues I make the mod to remove the ABS from the initial starting circuit

Basically I use the load shedding relay (the one that makes your lights go out when you push the start button) as a feed for a relay

The Yanks use the alternator wire But it's Your call I prefer mine as all it does is shut down the ABS system when you press the starter and then it reinitialises After the big current draw is finished

Info Here

The other thing is you can fit a switch on the dash and break the abs circuit on the run

I had a problem where i was in a muddy lane on an 1100RS and I COULDN'T get stopped in the end I used the kill switch and clutch and gears

After I did the mod there was a switch on the instrument area that said ABS ON / OFF road and I tried it a couple of times A very satisfying mod

and To turn on Stop the bike flick the switch and ride off


As to leaving the bike get a short length of battery cable and two cable lugs

Connect one end to the battery and the join the bike negative lead and the short lead at a place that is accessible and when You leave the bike just disconnect the battery negative and it's isolated and can't run down Only thing is this way you need to reset the clock on the info display each time you reconnect

 

[bimmerboxer]

Jaythro's probably right in that installing a relay will offer a better stable voltage to the ABS during start up test.

However, its a bit too complex for me and I would think of it as a last resort.

The battery is fine as seen during start up and I think I need to get the lights from drawing current during that stage.

Any help is appreciated.

 

[bimmerboxer]

Had just changed my starter to a Valeo original and the ABS seems to go on fine after diagnostics and vehicle moving off after a number of times stopping and turning the engine off. Seems to have done the trick but really have to try this out on a longer ride.
If this doesn't work, then its time for a relay to be installed.

Thanks to all for your help.

It seems that the 1150 is particularly plagued with this issue and it usually starts with a weakening battery, that then affects your starter and your ABS.

 

[davegs]

Relays?

How will a relay make any difference? it's the voltage from the BATTERY that's
the problem a relay wil make no diffrernce at all.

 

[MattW]

How will a relay make any difference? it's the voltage from the BATTERY that's
the problem a relay wil make no diffrernce at all.

I believe the relay referred to is the relay mod described by Jaythro above which holds off power to the ABS unit until after the engine is started (and hence gets round the low voltage ABS self test failure due to the battery voltage being pulled low by the starter).

 

[davegs]

Relays?

How will a relay make any difference? it's the voltage from the BATTERY that's
the problem a relay wil make no diffrernce at all.

 

[Stewart H]

How will a relay make any difference? it's the voltage from the BATTERY that's
the problem a relay wil make no diffrernce at all.

I think the relay is switched by the alternator light circuit, that way when the ABS "looks" at the battery voltage the engine will be running, the alternator will have started charging so the battery voltage will be 13/14 volts, no ABS problem.
Stewart

 

[MattW]

How will a relay make any difference? it's the voltage from the BATTERY that's
the problem a relay wil make no diffrernce at all.

Bloody 'ell Dave - have you actually bothered to read the rest of this thread (including the links in Jaythro's post above)?

Let me summarise it for you The theory goes that the ABS low voltage self test fails due to the BATTERY (we appear to be shouting battery at the moment) voltage being pulled low by the starter motor. Unless you wait a while after turning the ignition on but before pressing the button, the ABS completes its self test before the engine has started (but doesn't finally initialise until you ride off and get the 'clunk'). A slightly dodgy battery can also produce a low voltage fail even if you do wait before pressing the starter button.

The relay mod adds a relay which holds off power to ABS (and hence stops it self testing) until the engine has started. This means that it will see the full voltage from the alternator, not the battery voltage and hence wont fail the self test on low battery voltage.

Edit - Stewart beat me to it.#

Mine is mostly fine but every now and again it fails to initialise (usually after a night out in the cold) - As Jaythro has done, I think I'll just add a switch which allows me to manually interrupt the power to the ABS for the odd occasion that it fails (and if I ever need to kill the ABS on the move).

 

[Packer]

Check that there isn't an earth leak through the alternator. Failure of alternator diodes is common and can flatten a battery quickly.

If you are still having intermittant problems on longer runs after it's started properly you are looking at some other issue, possibly worn wiring, alternator failure or possibly dirty, maladjusted abs sensors.

 

[bimmerboxer]

Its been months but I think what I can report now can be beneficial to others. Here goes.

The Story before
ABS (not servo) reset, battery charged. Ignition on, engine starts..Lights blink in Unison as it should. Move off, sometimes the test runs successfully i.e. lights go off, or it starts to blink consecutively i.e. test failed. Even during the ride, the ABS lights will start flashing (consecutively) after hard braking.

Removed the friggin bulbs as I can't ride with the distraction and learnt to live without ABS.

Sometime ago, I have read this link (advwisdom.hogranch.com/.../BMW%20ABS%20II%20D&A.pdf) but kept it at the back of my mind trying other 'easier' solutions like flushing the fluid, checking the sensor gaps and scouring the web for a used unit.

Finally, a week ago with the tank off, I set to work according to Terry at Advrider. Had to grind down a 1/2 inch socket wrench to fit but other than that, it wasn't difficult. A lot of clean rags and an airgun really helps.

I couldn't replace the washers and seals as I didn't have spares. They were in fairly good order. The plungers/pistons were fine (see page 10 of the pdf), save for some almost unnoticeable stains. Took a fine grit sandpaper, kinda oiled it and tried to clean the plungers as uniformly best I can.

Cleaned with lint free cloth each and every component.

Reassembled, flushed out with fresh Dot 4 and took a ride round the block.
Wonders!!!

I just went on a 1000 mile trip and the ABS II checked out like clockwork, lights going out every time I started to move off.

You must understand that I was feeling nothing short of elation at having solved this problem after such a long period. I have just saved $$$ at a replacement unit. More so I now have peace of mind on my rides which is so so important.

Please note, that my ABS showed "plunger fault" on diagnosis thus this may not work for other issues. The bike is a 2001 1150GS with 85K on the clock, the last 30k ridden with the ABS working intermittently.

Likely that the bike sits in the garage over long periods causing the brake fluid at the plungers to 'muck' up causing it to stick during the ABS test.

Thank you Terry and Thank you UKGSer.

BTW my oil filler cap leaks now.

 

[(RIP) DitchWater]

BTW my oil filler cap leaks now.

Well done.

The O-Rings need replacing on your oil filler cap. I found it was the one below the insert and not on the the cap itself. Just change both. The one on the cap is 18 x 4mm but I don't have any dimensions for the lower.

Remove the cap and gently lever out the insert and inspect the O-Ring. It's probably flat around its' perimeter.

 

[bimmerboxer]

Here's what really happened.
I did an oil change and couldn't find Castrol GTX 20w-50 as it had been replaced by a 15w-50. In Indonesia, I would prefer to have something that I can find easily even in the more remote areas.

Used the new Castrol 15w-50 and the engine was terribly loud at start up. I know I need a cam tensioner replacement soon. Switched to another brand, Motul 3100, still a 15w -50 but this time it started less noisy.

The problem was that some IDIOT mistakenly filled up more than the required 3.5 litres!!!!

Once I learnt my mistake I thought that it would just spill off into the breather case or burn off. I am assuming that this excess engine oil caused the seals of the oil filler caps to be constantly immersed and thus failing due to the heat.

Teflon tape used sparingly got me home without further issues and my left boot looked all shiny and gleaming. Will get new seals pronto.

I have just added toilet roll to my checklist for trips.

 

[Bumfluff]

The Yanks use the alternator wire But it's Your call I prefer mine as all it does is shut down the ABS system when you press the starter and then it reinitialises After the big current draw is finished

Info Here

I just finished installing this mod to my new to me r1150gs and it was a doddle to do if you arnt bothered about doing all the work getting the relay into the fuesbox. I couldnt add it to the fuse box as there is already extra relays there and i cant work out what they are for
so its just a case of taking the ABS plug appart or cutting through the protective sleeve and cutting the ABS control wire. The small blue wire on the altinator is right next to the ABS plug when you look through the frame and then you just need an earth..... 30min and all done.

No more running the bike for a few min to get enough charge to start the abs!

 

[bimmerboxer]

I am now expanding from just ABS issues but hope to keep all updated.

On a ride next to a R1100R, my bike sounded like a tractor next to a bentley. How could it be? I've kept to regular oil changes, valve adjustments, left cam chain tensioner and what.

There was a clackety sound from the front of the engine, but had checked the bearing (alternator) and belt.

Browsing through Motorworks, I saw the front crankshaft timing chain and rails listed as parts on their online catalog
No I am not working for Motorworks as these are pretty much genuine OEM parts. But having them listed aroused my curiosity and I decided to get the crankshaft cover off.

I was having mixed feelings as I discovered my suspicions were right. The timing chain tensioner spring housing (part #5) had broken through, the spring still in place but showing. In essence, it was still performing its function, but not optimally or as designed.

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/diagrams/e/h/6.png

Replaced the tensioner spring housing, spring, rails, chain and finally the seal.

I now do not winch each time I start the motor. Its a world of difference. a good analogy is having two guys run a race. They keep the same pace but one just keeps coughing every now and then. You know, the whooping kind you get some mornings.

I know many 1150GS owners just swear by the durability of their bikes despite the noises, but I would avoid a squeaky supermarket trolley with one wheel refusing to stay aligned. BTW this is on a '01 1150GS at 79,999km mileage (or rather thats what's been showing since a year ago).

So hope this helps.

 

[bimmerboxer]

Now back to the ABS. As mentioned earlier in this thread, I sorted out the ABS II by getting to the parts, with special reference to the plungers, cleaning them out and reinstalling them.
It worked................................................................................for a while.

Got so irritating, I had a wire installed and left dangling out of the right side for a quick ABS reset without even getting off the bike. Finally took off the ABS fuse and the bulbs in the instrument cluster for good effect.

ABS did save me from a few close calls in the past so I knew I still wanted it working.

Finally, I sent the whole unit to Moscow, Idaho of the US of A. Module Masters did a quick job and sent the unit back. www.modulemaster.com/





Has it installed a couple of days ago and went for a ride.

ITS BACK and WORKING WELL again.

Yeeeeha!!!