1200 final drive failure poll.

[Stretchamus]

Having looked at a K1300 the other day it would seem that the FD is a mirror image of the R1200. Internal parts including bearings and seals have the same part numbers so to all intents and purposes they are one and the same. Although there are far more Rs than Ks, I am not aware of any issues with the K bikes. I would guess that the power delivery of the twin gives the FD a harder time than the fours so if the design is marginal to begin with then this may be a significant factor. Anyone else have any experience or knowledge of the Ks?

If you look on a Performance BMW Forum and go to the 12/1300 K section you will find they are having trouble with their final drives and winging as we are

Best regards Stretch

 

[Pauly S]

Have you gorra linky

If you look on a Performance BMW Forum and go to the 12/1300 K section you will find they are having trouble with their final drives and winging as we are

Best regards Stretch

for the site?

Edit...
there are quite a lot of sales figures for the 1200gs here
It also lists 9 recalls via vosa, could be wortha read to ensure you are all repaired fully.

 

[TeaPig]

The survey is a nice idea but key will be a large data set if anything conclusive is to come from it as there are many variables. If you are keen to progress this you could do worse than try to integrate the data collected by others including the large thread on this topic that already exists in UKGSER.

There even used to be a website dedicted to the FD (www.bmwfinaldrive.com) with many reports from GS riders but it seems to have gone the same way as the FD's themselves

The FD's from 1100 to present have changed very little internally (I've been inside to fix them) with examples of reported failures going way back in the forums (look in the 1150 section of UKGSER) as they have been consistently a weak point. Similarly the FD's of RS/RT/K series bikes have experienced failures. Check out places like the avdrider site for pages and pages of FD woe.

I wish you well in your quest for the truth but it may be worth your while doing a search on t'internet for what's already been said and analysed so you don't spend your time duplicating effort.

Punters have been complaining about FD failures for years with no clear resolution from BMW other than occasional tinkering with the design which has yet to be shown to be effective.

 

[Dannorpower]

Recently had my 2008 GSA in for first MOT and annual service. Not happy to get an advisory on the first MOT about free play on the rear wheel at 3,500 mile of light use from new. Dealer says it is OK but I reminded them on the last service at the end of the warranty at the 2010 service when I complained of a noise and loose sensation when travelling across cats eyes. Really Pi**ed off to find that this is a well documented issue. The delaer told me it was less that the permissible 0.5mm at the rim cold and when I asked what the free play on my bike was they stated that they have not measured it. I will take the bike to the dealer in a month or so when I get back kto the UK and wait for the impending argument that will no doubt commence. I am more unhappy that I felt something was wrong last year and it is documented on the delaer system. If this issue was known by the dealer they kept quiet and said that they were unable to find any problem in 2010. Lets see what happens.

 

[[email protected]]

2008 GSA

with 18554 miles on the clock, took it in for its 18000 miles service after having ridden it 2 up fully loaded around europe and a furter 600 miles when I got home. I did not think anything was wrong, but as I ride nearly every day maybe I got used to it, it still went no loss of power and no extra noise ect.
Astle service manager siad it was truly shot to bits with bits floating in the oil, they replaced under warranty and charged me less for a service, okay second one ive had go my 2004 gs went as well. My question is when this happens its there any chance the back wheel will lock up rather like a 2 stroke seizing??? if so then BMW really should sort it out.

Has this been address on the water cooled GS which has had its shaft drive moved????

And finally can someone explain in very simple terms with the aid of a diagram what goes wrong so that my very none mechanical brain can understand cheers Neil ( i just ride em and fuel em)

 

[(RIP) Bin Ridin]

Neil unlike a 2-stroke seizing, this will not free off if you pull in the clutch.....Bin

 

[Sgt Bilco]

I'm gonna ask a dull but serious question here. What is the reason for this poll and will it serve any good purpose?

We all know there is an issue with some FD's but the vast majority sail along to high mileages without any issues. BMW acknowledge this and change them under warranty. After warranty, you can get a rebuild for around £350 tops which I will do this winter for the sake of good order. That to me is OK as I would have nearly spent that on chains and sprockets with a Varadildo or the like. The biggest issue in even of failure is they aren't easy to fix but that's the same with any major item on a bike.

It seems to me that some bikes are just prone to FD fails which would suggest something as well as the FD.

Will BMW take any notice of this navel gazing...?? Nope is the answer and they will carry on changing with warranty if they go.

My opinion is you budget for a rebuild at 3/4 years and don't wory about it.

 

[Neil W]

I would have no problem with a large capacity chain driven bike budgetting for a new chain and sprockets every three or four years ( maybe £150 or so),
but you shouldn't have to on a shaft drive and then pay a damned sight more to do so.

FD failures appear to be a contunuing fault that has run on from the 1150's into the 1200's and should have been sorted by the manufacturer.

When the bevel box was redesigned in 2004 it should have been a number 1 priority by BM to get rid of this fault once and for all.

 

[Pauly S]

Neil..

Here here.
The reason for the poll was to find some info to the latest status on the damned things.
If enough people vote on the poll and it gathers enough momentum,maybe bmw may put there hands up and offer a cut price replacement as a gesture of goodwill, irrespective of the state of the warranty.
The price could be varied relative to the mileage of the machine.
For the price of the bike and the problems it causes i think its disgusting.
Its all very well budgeting for the impending doom, but it will go when you least need it to.
Pound to a penny it will fail whilst on a trip because most of these machines are used for leisure mileage.
Also if bmw changed the price of the fd worldwide, if it did fail in say turkey, having not to fork out a thousand dillion reubles is an added plus.
So come on BMW lets have some customer service round here,
PUT YOUR HANDS UP AND OWN THE PROBLEM.

 

[Neil W]

IMHO as much of a problem are the owners who cann't see anything wrong with forking out to fix things that should not have gone wong in a relatively short period of time. They will vociferously defend any faults on the bikes 'because they are the best in the world' and things like exploding gearboxes on 1100's, FD failures on 1150's and various 1200 relatedfaults are acceptable.

If a BMW 530 lunched its diff at sub 10,000 miles I doubt the owner would be happy to pay for it, infact as car drivers we expect and rightly so that such an item will last the life of the car.

If a number of them did and kept on doing so over a couple of production years it would be all over the motoring press and something would be done about it.

As an aside when we first got the R1100 RT's at work in the 90's they were eating clutches every 3 to 4000 miles or much less in some cases , when a number of agencies started whinging to BM and threatened to look elsewhere for bikes it was sorted PDQ.

 

[Sgt Bilco]

Here here.
The reason for the poll was to find some info to the latest status on the damned things.
If enough people vote on the poll and it gathers enough momentum,maybe bmw may put there hands up and offer a cut price replacement as a gesture of goodwill, irrespective of the state of the warranty.
The price could be varied relative to the mileage of the machine.
For the price of the bike and the problems it causes i think its disgusting.
Its all very well budgeting for the impending doom, but it will go when you least need it to.
Pound to a penny it will fail whilst on a trip because most of these machines are used for leisure mileage.
Also if bmw changed the price of the fd worldwide, if it did fail in say turkey, having not to fork out a thousand dillion reubles is an added plus.
So come on BMW lets have some customer service round here,
PUT YOUR HANDS UP AND OWN THE PROBLEM.

Good points and well made but will BMW actually listen to a poll on a GS website? They aren't dummies and I suspect they know there is an issue with some final drives so are prepared to change under warranty if a problem happens whilst working in the R&D to correct it. The vast majority sail throgh their life with no problems.

I think the biggest issue with an FD is the fact that it's a potential show stopper when it goes. If was a simple problem easily cured at the roadside no one would really bother. It also seems to happen early in the bikes life when you would expect everything to be fine. Mine's done 67k with no issue.

I'm not saying that they shouldn't try to resolve the issue but if you, as the owner, know there is a potential problem, you can go someway to stopping it happening which surely is sensible. I've got around 25k to do on mine next year so it's having a rebuild at Scrimmiger in the winter. I would rather head the problem off at the pass than just wait for it to go bang in the arse end of nowhere.

 

[Pauly S]

good points

My gearbox is getting a renovation over the winter, as you say heading it off at the pass.
new bearings seals all the bizz.
Still keep reporting lads.

 

[roadrunnert509]

No problems with mine...... so far!

 

[Rasher]

IMHO as much of a problem are the owners who cann't see anything wrong with forking out to fix things that should not have gone wong in a relatively short period of time. They will vociferously defend any faults on the bikes 'because they are the best in the world' and things like exploding gearboxes on 1100's, FD failures on 1150's and various 1200 relatedfaults are acceptable.

BMW now rely heavily on a reputation of reliability they no longer deserve and the loyal blinkered owners who pay whatever their stealer demands for sub-standard machines / parts / servicing.

Just got back from my Alps tour and the bike has a knackered clutch, warped discs and leaking fork seals - at 14k.

Surprisingly (well to me anyway) the FD is still running OK and I did not need to deploy my spare FPC - but I don't want to risk another tour on the bike next year when it will have a rather high mileage of 20k on it as it is falling apart like a cheap watch at 15k.

The rebuild option, although financially viable does not get around sods law, which is that it will fail on the first day of your once in a lifetime trip - who is gonna rebuild before every holiday

A cut price deal for p/x old for new by BMW would be excellent, if they offered a £500 upgrade from older to newer types I think most owners would be happy, can't see them doing it though.

I personally am not convinced the rest of the bike is durable enough anyway, and with the prevailing attitude of paying any price to have a BMW badge I can't see BMW doing anything to improve the situation or even make the next GS any better - they know tens of thousands of owners will trade up regardless of how crap the new model is.

I met a German chap on tour who came over as I was waiting fot eh Mrs to get some stuff from a supermarket, he thought I had broken down, I explained the bike was runnign, but with a few ailments, he told me the cluthces are weak and the fork seals always leak.

He had just bought a new model and seemed almost impressed at the fact the last one buggered an FD, Gearbox and had leaking fork seals the dealer refused to fix as they said "they all do that sir" and they "don't do anything so there is no need to worry"

After that why on earth did he buy GS number four It is these people that keep BMW going in the direction they are and continually lowering quality - they will continue to do so until the sales drop.

 

[Sgt Bilco]

I met a German chap on tour who came over as I was waiting fot eh Mrs to get some stuff from a supermarket, he thought I had broken down, I explained the bike was runnign, but with a few ailments, he told me the cluthces are weak and the fork seals always leak.

Oh dear Rasher, you seem to want to believe any old bollox. My clutch is original and good at 68k and only had one fork seal go in over 120k on GS's. Anyway, how hard is to change a fork seal on a GS? !0 mins

Mate, your bike has performed faultlessly since you had it and transported you and Mrs Rasher around Europe yet you still want to knock it because something MAY go wrong.

Why is it falling apart like a cheap watch? What's happened to it now?

 

[autogs]

the fork seals always leak do they? never heard you moan about that before,
ive had several 1200's 000's of miles,i like many many others on hear have never had a clutch go a fpc an ews etc etc.please sell your bike,the record is definatly broken now.

 

[Deleted account 190920001]

Well look on the bright side, least you have something to officially moan about now. Cant help but think that it would be better for you and everyone else to sell it and move on to another manufacturer/forum though.

 

[dadster]

Cant help but think that it would be better for you and everyone else to sell it and move on to another manufacturer/forum though.

FFS don't say that to him, where else can you get this kind of entertainment for £12

Dave,

 

[Stretchamus]

I agree with Rasher, one of the reasons my 2010 twin cam GSA has gone is because I didn't want to keep it out of warranty, it will be out next April so I flogged it whilst it was still worth a bob or two.
Also before I came to GS's I'd never even thought of extended warranty

Rasher dya wanna buy some FS365 and ACF 50 somthing else I'd never purchased previously

Best regards Stretch
PS I'll keep the WD for around the house and garage

 

[cookie]

FFS don't say that to him, where else can you get this kind of entertainment for £12

Dave,

odd that he's gone all coy about telling us what actually has gone wrong. he's usually so keen to tell us what might fail