1200 GSA discounted Prices and Dealers
- Thread starter Rusape
- Start date
I think the residual theory is bollix!
I was offered £7.5k for my 11 month old GS cos the mileage was too high (it had just under 9,000 miles on the clock)
But in support of earlier threads I really struggled to buy it as the dealer (who are no more - south coast) wasn't really interested, there I was wedge in hand and keen as mustard and I struggled to get anyone to have a serious conversation with me.
I guess the best time to order/buy is at the end of the month or before a significant date like easter or xmas as they may want to achieve bonuses and thats the usual cut off dates/start of the new period.
I was offered £7.5k for my 11 month old GS cos the mileage was too high (it had just under 9,000 miles on the clock)
But in support of earlier threads I really struggled to buy it as the dealer (who are no more - south coast) wasn't really interested, there I was wedge in hand and keen as mustard and I struggled to get anyone to have a serious conversation with me.
I guess the best time to order/buy is at the end of the month or before a significant date like easter or xmas as they may want to achieve bonuses and thats the usual cut off dates/start of the new period.
4k per year is average for a bike. Do more than that, you get clobbered, like it or not.
How much do you think a 19month old 40,000 mile R1 would be worth as a % of initial cost? (just checked on MCN, highest mileage 2006 R1 is 8500miles)
How much do you think a 19month old 40,000 mile R1 would be worth as a % of initial cost? (just checked on MCN, highest mileage 2006 R1 is 8500miles)
The 1200 GS and ADV are amongst the best selling bikes in the UK over the past few years. Far more sold than the previous 1150, 1100 or airhead versions = more supply & choice for buyers and lower residual prices.
Whilst there may be more people buying BMW bikes many are reluctant to buy used bikes which have been used. Add in the various ownership stories which you read in this website and many would avoid used bikes just in case they have expensive problem to fix outside the warranty period.
With the updated 2008 models available and also the 800GS tempting some buyers the myth of solid BMW residuals is just that.
Whilst there may be more people buying BMW bikes many are reluctant to buy used bikes which have been used. Add in the various ownership stories which you read in this website and many would avoid used bikes just in case they have expensive problem to fix outside the warranty period.
With the updated 2008 models available and also the 800GS tempting some buyers the myth of solid BMW residuals is just that.
Mutley
Registered user
Why are you surprised? 
It's a very popular bike. The dealer can sell every one he gets. Why would he discount? You are clearly not as clued up on economics as you would first appear
Go and buy a Honda
It's a very popular bike. The dealer can sell every one he gets. Why would he discount? You are clearly not as clued up on economics as you would first appear
Go and buy a Honda
Why are you surprised?
It's a very popular bike. The dealer can sell every one he gets. Why would he discount? You are clearly not as clued up on economics as you would first appear
Go and buy a Honda
Come Come Mutley,
My original post was to express my surprise at the lack of enthusiasm I was greated with, when I went to a dealer to enquire about buying a GSA... Why am I surprised???
Ok here goes...
I fully appreciate that the new GSA is a motorcycle that is in high demand and that whilst demand outstrips supply the basic ecomomics model will apply, that was not my point....
For many purchasers a motorcycle is not their first mode of transport and certainly for most it would probably not be a motorcycle costing £12k+... One would harazrd therefore, that those that choose to purchase a BMW motorcycle, do so not as a necessity, but in the most part as a "toy".
"Toys" are the first things to go when money becomes an issue, and any dealer with half a brain, must surely realise that the current worldwide economic climate is not one that engenders confidence in the short to medium term. Why therefore show so little interest in potential customers who clearly demonstrate an interest..... by all means don't offer a discount, but as has been pointed out, the ruse of high redisuals is a red herring.
I was again astounded on Saturday when I went to yet another dealer, kept waiting 25 mins to speak to the sales man(who happened to be the showroom manager), who after shuffling paperwork looked up and greeted me with "yes"? Not a word of apology that I stood for so long while he chatted on the phone about BMW F1, the weather and his up comming holiday to his buddy...
Told that ALL GSA's are to order and can have one at the end of April beginning May... pointed me to a brochure, told me I could find out more on the MOTORRAD web site and promptly sloped off to answer his mobile phone.
Now that doesn't sound like demand outstripping supply to me!!
I now firmly believe that BMW UK is (like so many other retailers) riding high on the wave of charging the British public top dollar for goods that really are overpriced in the first place... why offer a discount when you don't have to? why try to sell one when you don't have to????
Porsche did this in the early 90's after riding the wave of the heady 80's boom, and nealry bankrupted themselves before realising and correcting their stance.
The GSA is undoubtedly a great machine, but they will shortly find that as the financial crisis begins to really be felt, house values fall, lending criteria tightens, job lossess, and a recession bites, the buying public that they so desperately need,(and treated with disdain), start to feel less well off and will very quickly tighten thier belts and drift away.....
Thats why I'm surprised that dealers seem so disintersted in courting interested customers!
R
A 19 month old bike would have it's book mileage set in the region of 6-7000 miles, so one that has done 40000 miles is going to get hammered when it comes to what the dealer will offer.
I would have expected a fine langer such as yourself to come up with something better than that Pat.
It doesn't?
For each person who wanders in looking for a discount, I expect there are several who know what they want, don't need to be "sold" anything, and simply fill in their order and write the deposit cheque.
kokoro
Guest
hi mate get yersel a ktm 990adv s model.It will hammer thse gsa hands down,£8500 with panniers the lot.Think of it this way; is the 1200gsa £4000 better than the ktm,i think not.
Nice argument which taken to its logical conclusion leaves us all riding Honda C90shi mate get yersel a ktm 990adv s model.It will hammer thse gsa hands down,£8500 with panniers the lot.Think of it this way; is the 1200gsa £4000 better than the ktm,i think not.
How are negotiations coming along Rusape??
SonicTheHedgehog
Registered user
Yep - after BVM got hold of my GS, they said they weren't worried if I actually wanted it or not; if I didn't want to take it, they'd have a queue of people who'd bite their hands off to get hold of a well-specced one without having to wait for it.
The Bede
Registered user
... Herein lies one of the dealer myths.
... Average bike mileage may well only be 4,000 miles per year and this is quoted to you at trade-in time
... I'll bet average BuMW mileage is higher. Sure amongst the newer GSers there will be some weekend warriors and summer only riders, but amongst our number are plenty of riders covering much higher mileages (I do min 12000 p.a. assuming I'm away for 6 months!)
... At trade-in time dealers will naturally try to bamboozle the punter with the figure most advatageous to their business. You (or the collective 'we'), as punters, need to be holding out for a bit more and pointing out the discrepency.
... Unfortunately the popularity of the 1200GS is probably attracting more fair weather bikers, so 'our' average mileage will be dropping. Perhaps we should be encouraging a few of the fair weather aspirants to buy Honda
(Go on you know you DON'T want one!)... Incidentally, rumours that BuMW and their dealers aren't interested once they have your cash are largely untrue. I have never been so well treated in my bike buying experiences than I have by both BuMW the manufacturer and BuMW the dealer. A lot of that depends on how you approach any situation where you feel you need their support.
...
Kudos to North Oxford Garage BMW for looking after me and many others superbly 
Not really a myth though is it? It is how your bike will be judged by all when you come to sell, like it or not. When I'm buying a second hand bike I also use this rule of thumb when judging a bike's value against book price.
I do over 15k/yr so am always getting clobbered for mileage related depreciation, so I'm certainly going to use it to my benefit when buying.
You may be buying a bike with the image of one that can go around the world, but nobody will want to buy it for top money if you actually do!!!
R
In response to your original question - yes you can get discounts from BMW dealers but it may prove difficult. I totally get what you are saying as I have a similar outlook to dealers and if they display a poor attitude then they don't get my business AND I tell the dealership manager exactly why before I leave.
I wouldn't put up with some chap talking on his phone whilst I am waiting to be served, he is at work for goodness sake and should be earning my money. If any of my staff did likewise I would roast them. I particularly like it when they go on about service and loyalty etc and try and use this to justify paying full or a higher price than another dealer.
I was looking at a new GS1200 earlier in the year and found two brand new of the pre face lift models in my local dealers fully specced up and with a retail price of about £10,800 or so. Initially the dealer looked at the trade in which was an 05 GS1200 with 15K in a very nice condition. We sat down and talked and got close to a deal but not quite the deal I wanted, I suggested to him that his margin on the bike was 10%, but that this did not include any quaterly bonus for making sales targets, nor any additional incentive from BMW to sell off the last of the current models.
Once he realised I was a serious buyer/negotiator we sat and talked straight without the usual bull and I left knowing what I could and could not do. I then had a base line for the value of my bike and bearing in mind that this was in Feb and values were low, I sold it within a day to a colleague for more, as it was a very nice example. I then phoned the dealer and offered him the equivalent cash deal which he said he would not now do as he was hoping to make money on the PX side of the deal. Fair enough, being honest as he had been, however the end of the month was near and he then reconsidered and I was then offered the bike at £9,700 all in OTR.
However at this point, as I was a cash buyer now, I enquired about the new 1200 as it was launch week and did not expect much for obvious reasons. The dealer told me straight that it was no discount at all! But other dealers, had who I had also been making enquiries with, had got back to me and they were prepared to do a deal.
I went back to the original dealer and explained that I had been impressed with his sales manner and up front approach to our negotiations and would he ask his SM to reconsider a discount. The answer was the same 'no way'. This was a real shame as I was happy to do business with him, but he was honest to concede - when I asked him whether he would buy the last of the old model at £9,700 fully loaded or a brand new GS same spec apart from an alarm (wasn't bothered about) and TPC for the same money OTR what would he do?
He told me to go to the other dealers and good luck to me for getting a cracking deal!
So I did and purchased a new GS 1200 from elsewhere and can report that the dealer at this location was equally good, honest up front negotiations (including spare key, first service costs, etc etc) and the follow up service has been very good including first service etc.
So as you can see not easy but can be done, but luck and timings play a part in this, so research is vital. Good luck and consider speaking to Graham at Coopers TW or Alex at Vines Guildford.
In response to your original question - yes you can get discounts from BMW dealers but it may prove difficult. I totally get what you are saying as I have a similar outlook to dealers and if they display a poor attitude then they don't get my business AND I tell the dealership manager exactly why before I leave.
I wouldn't put up with some chap talking on his phone whilst I am waiting to be served, he is at work for goodness sake and should be earning my money. If any of my staff did likewise I would roast them. I particularly like it when they go on about service and loyalty etc and try and use this to justify paying full or a higher price than another dealer.
I was looking at a new GS1200 earlier in the year and found two brand new of the pre face lift models in my local dealers fully specced up and with a retail price of about £10,800 or so. Initially the dealer looked at the trade in which was an 05 GS1200 with 15K in a very nice condition. We sat down and talked and got close to a deal but not quite the deal I wanted, I suggested to him that his margin on the bike was 10%, but that this did not include any quaterly bonus for making sales targets, nor any additional incentive from BMW to sell off the last of the current models.
Once he realised I was a serious buyer/negotiator we sat and talked straight without the usual bull and I left knowing what I could and could not do. I then had a base line for the value of my bike and bearing in mind that this was in Feb and values were low, I sold it within a day to a colleague for more, as it was a very nice example. I then phoned the dealer and offered him the equivalent cash deal which he said he would not now do as he was hoping to make money on the PX side of the deal. Fair enough, being honest as he had been, however the end of the month was near and he then reconsidered and I was then offered the bike at £9,700 all in OTR.
However at this point, as I was a cash buyer now, I enquired about the new 1200 as it was launch week and did not expect much for obvious reasons. The dealer told me straight that it was no discount at all! But other dealers, had who I had also been making enquiries with, had got back to me and they were prepared to do a deal.
I went back to the original dealer and explained that I had been impressed with his sales manner and up front approach to our negotiations and would he ask his SM to reconsider a discount. The answer was the same 'no way'. This was a real shame as I was happy to do business with him, but he was honest to concede - when I asked him whether he would buy the last of the old model at £9,700 fully loaded or a brand new GS same spec apart from an alarm (wasn't bothered about) and TPC for the same money OTR what would he do?
He told me to go to the other dealers and good luck to me for getting a cracking deal!
So I did and purchased a new GS 1200 from elsewhere and can report that the dealer at this location was equally good, honest up front negotiations (including spare key, first service costs, etc etc) and the follow up service has been very good including first service etc.
So as you can see not easy but can be done, but luck and timings play a part in this, so research is vital. Good luck and consider speaking to Graham at Coopers TW or Alex at Vines Guildford.
Clive,
I hope for their sakes then, that people keep flooding through their doors and fill out order forms and keep paying deposits ad nauseum!
I know exactly what I want, however, I want to know that I am getting the best deal I can when I buy, beacuse I sure as hell will not be offered the best deal when eventually I come to sell!
JH.....
Thanks for your input.. Will let them know you sent me!
R
The Bede
Registered user
... Perhaps I didn't explain this well.
... When trading in any bike average annual mileage is 4,000-4,500, undeniable fact. Average BuMW mileage is higher.
... My quick scan of used bike adds showed an effective minimum mileage of 4,000 for GSs. There are a few examples with lower mileage and lots with significantly higher distances recorded. I reckon the GS average will be nearer 7,000 miles, perhaps higher. I also suspect low mileage BuMW owners hang on to their machines for longer than the average rice-rocket owner.
... BuMW dealers obviously quote the lower figure in order to discount their TI offer. By accepting this on face value we are being judged against a baseline for all bikes, not for BuMW bikes, nor for GSs.
... BuMWs, boxers and GSs are still a bit of an acquired taste, despite the current GS12 LWD fad. Of all the potential GS buyers scanning forecourts for a used machine, only a relatively small proportion are likely to be looking for GS or A.N.Other. I'll bet a pint to a pinch of pig-shit most are looking specifically for a GS, perhaps vacillating between a GS and an ADV.
... When trading a GS, or any BuMW, 'we' sellers must collectively haggle harder with the dealer on mileage. From the dealer perspective no TI, no new sale ... ahem ... no non-discounted new sale
... Scan the forecourts for GSs, there a plenty of 2 year old machines at £7K+ with 20,000+ on the clock. Dealers have no problem selling them on and 'low-mileage' sub 10,000 milers are punted at a premium ... FFS a sub 10,000 mile boxer ain't even run in!
Rusape said:
... And they do.
... Expecting a dealer to beg and haggle for your wad of grubby tenners in spring/early summer, when demand is matched or even outstripped by demand, is naive in the extreme. Have you considered a Caponord?
On that point I'll agree, BMW bikes do have higher than average mileage as a brand. The dealer will obviously use the most favourable figure for him, which is overall.... BuMW dealers obviously quote the lower figure in order to discount their TI offer. By accepting this on face value we are being judged against a baseline for all bikes, not for BuMW bikes, nor for GSs.
I haven't traded a bike in for years, I always sell privately then do a cash deal. I only really want to allow a dealer to make profit on one part of the sale...
... When trading a GS, or any BuMW, 'we' sellers must collectively haggle harder with the dealer on mileage. From the dealer perspective no TI, no new sale ... ahem ... no non-discounted new sale
Trading in is a mug's game.... ...
... Expecting a dealer to beg and haggle for your wad of grubby tenners in spring/early summer, when demand is matched or even outstripped by demand, is naive in the extreme. Have you considered a Caponord?
Now you wouldn't be trying to infer that I'm just a "fair weather biker" by any cahnce, suggesting I look at a Caponord are you!!!!! And any way, what's wrong with my wad of grubby tenners????
Seems to me that naivety is walking into a dealer and paying your deposit and walking out again!!
Still to each his own.... still doesn't excuse the surly disinterest I've experienced.
The Bede
Registered user
... No such personal inference should be drawn and there's nowt wrong with your wad of grubby tenners at all, but at current market timing a BuMW dealer is going to be able to sell the same new GS to another punter for a larger wad.
... Caponords however aren't on quite the same part of the supply and demand curve.
Rusape said:
... You pays your money you takes your choice, which includes the right to not pay a deposit and not take delivery. I am surprised at the surly disinterest, most BuMW dealers seem extremely interested (and adept) in swapping shiney baubles for your hard-earned.
The Bede
Registered user
... On that point I'll agree
... But why the dealer shouldn't profit from selling your bike to another punter as well as profitting from selling you your new machine, should you chose the trade-in route? They have the same working capital, overhead, commissions and risk considerations on both transactions, plus they have to include a hefty chunk for BuMW for the warranty extension.
