1200GS bits made in china?

[Johnny Davies]

Why on earth are folk even surprised/worried, you can't change the high volume/80:20 rule of production! BM are now high volume - face it!!!!

Fact of the matter is, no matter where you make your parts, bikes, cars, systems, packaged chillers or arse paper; if your quality controls are not met then you don't pass it fit for use.
It is quite clear that BM aren't QA'ing all of the parts, engines and systems being made all of the time - as they might have done back in Berlin i.e. tough in house standards. They are reliant on deals done with 3rd party manufacturers to deliver and that is never plain sailing, particularly in China and especially when left to their own devices.

Not that I'm saying this is right, because quite often it isn't. However, you need a real relationship and understanding with your suppliers to deliver the best results, be it here in the UK or in China!

Jap bikes are certaoily not immune from this, hence why your R1, Gixer Thou or ZX10 will corrode at the first sight of a proper UK riding season.

Peace
Johnny

 

[Devon]

Why does it matter?

I put my money down on an expensive German m/c. If a large proportion of the machine is cheap Chinese, I would expect the cost of the machine to reflect the fact.
I suppose I am getting pished off with being conned. For example, a couple of years ago I paid a premium to have a load of furniture from a local company: Devonshire Pine. Turns out the company have gone from employing skilled local peeps to make the furniture to being a giant warehouse selling Chinese Pine. Excellent deal for the Aston driving owner of the company but not what I paid a premium for. It would be the same for me with a Chinese BMW.

 

[Brian ROSEN]

I put my money down on an expensive German m/c. If a large proportion of the machine is cheap Chinese, I would expect the cost of the machine to reflect the fact.
I suppose I am getting pished off with being conned. For example, a couple of years ago I paid a premium to have a load of furniture from a local company: Devonshire Pine. Turns out the company have gone from employing skilled local peeps to make the furniture to being a giant warehouse selling Chinese Pine. Excellent deal for the Aston driving owner of the company but not what I paid a premium for. It would be the same for me with a Chinese BMW.

Come on now; you really are out of date! If your company owner is driving an Aston his company is still running and successful and you can still buy your furniture from him - you have not said that the quality has diminished.
I buy shoes that were produced in a local factory here near Lyon. The 35 hour week finished that off and the company moved their production to Portugal. However the 'factory shop' is still able to sell the same shoes at the same prices. (Does the British shoe trade still produce mainly in Nortampton? I doubt it!)

 

[Dahoum]

Turn you keyboard over! Odds are that its made in china! pretty much everything is nowdays!

Oy! have you been in my office

 

[Devon]

Come on now; you really are out of date! If your company owner is driving an Aston his company is still running and successful and you can still buy your furniture from him - you have not said that the quality has diminished.
I buy shoes that were produced in a local factory here near Lyon. The 35 hour week finished that off and the company moved their production to Portugal. However the 'factory shop' is still able to sell the same shoes at the same prices. (Does the British shoe trade still produce mainly in Nortampton? I doubt it!)

I guess I am getting to the stage where I don't buy into this sort of deal. The Devonshire Pine example: I could have purchased similar furniture of the same quality (reasonably good) for 25% of the price. Why would anyone want to pay 4 times as much just because a local bloke calls the same product 'Devonshire'. IMHO it's bollox. I am uncomfortable with paying a premium for what amounts to a company's endorsement. I guess the question is: if BMW, Harley and Triumph stopped production in their home countries and shifted their manufacturing base to China, would consumers still be happy to pay premium prices to importers?
Plus I don't rate Chinese quality control for premium quality products.

 

[Brian ROSEN]

f BMW, Harley and Triumph stopped production in their home countries and shifted their manufacturing base to China, would consumers still be happy to pay premium prices to importers?
If Norton, Tiumph, Villiers,BSA, AJS...had 'stopped production in their home countries and shifted their manufacturing base to Japn would consumers still be happy to pay premium prices to importers? Well, if they still buy Royal Enfoields anything is possible!

 

[Gizmo]

I guess I am getting to the stage where I don't buy into this sort of deal. .

+1

I guess the question is: if BMW, Harley and Triumph stopped production in their home countries and shifted their manufacturing base to China, would consumers still be happy to pay premium prices to importers?
Plus I don't rate Chinese quality control for premium quality products.

Triumph are now producing in Thailand, it will be interesting to see if the "Brand" image is damaged by this. Is "made in Britain" an integral part of the choosing Triumph decision process.I guess the parallel is "is my BMW German?"

I work in Pharma, and the chinese response to quality issues, some of which have led to hundreds of fatalities, has been to jail the QA manager and thats it. No six sigma analysis, process development, nada.

Like you I dont rate chinese quality control or trust the supplied certification.Many western companies are now locating QA specialists in Chinese manufacturing sites to tackle the whole credibility issue.

IMHO We are selling ourselves short in the long term by this race to the bottom .

 

[GSband]

... I am uncomfortable with paying a premium for what amounts to a company's endorsement. I guess the question is: if BMW, Harley and Triumph stopped production in their home countries and shifted their manufacturing base to China, would consumers still be happy to pay premium prices to importers? ...

+1

 

[GSband]

... IMHO We are selling ourselves short in the long term by this race to the bottom. ...

+1

 

[kiwiAdventure]

I guess I am getting to the stage where I don't buy
Plus I don't rate Chinese quality control for premium quality products.

Agree as well who would trust any food out of China. I would rather pay a little more for good quality goods and food.

 

[Aggy]

i dont know why you are worried - look at your offside front engine case its stamped Gilardoni which although I cant find the website I have found many references to them being an Italian company (well I never) that has a lot of dealings with motorbikes, castings, nikasil plating, Moto Guzzi, Lambretta and Ducati.

So the Bavarian Panzer GS is already not as tuetonic as you think... wasn't the telelever a British invention?

 

[Aggy]

f BMW, Harley and Triumph stopped production in their home countries and shifted their manufacturing base to China, would consumers still be happy to pay premium prices to importers?
If Norton, Tiumph, Villiers,BSA, AJS...had 'stopped production in their home countries and shifted their manufacturing base to Japn would consumers still be happy to pay premium prices to importers? Well, if they still buy Royal Enfoields anything is possible!

Triumph already has shipped out some of its manufacturing in that direction. The frames used to be made in the town I used to live in and my old next door neighbour worked producing them (Mormet Alloys Tamworth) right up until they ceased UK production and went east. Its the same with the engine cases. Look deeper, past all the glossy marketing covered with little union jacks and in reality a very large proportion of any modern Triumph is made abroad. IIRC the looms are Italian as is the switch gear (My Speed triple had the same ignition barrel as an Aprilia) and lets face it if anyone mentions Italian and electrics int he same sentence then the motoring world shudders.

The only reason that we think a vehicle is 100% German, American, Italian, Japanese (delete where applicable) is because their marketing companies want us to.

Lets face it we are all guilty of this. Badges sell.

But I cant get my head around Royal Enfield

 

[Brian ROSEN]

I agree

I have to agree with you; In my young days (a long time ago) there was a huge choice of BRITISH bikes but the one that nobody wanted, at least amongst all my friends, was the Royal Enfield. The Army models were even worse (impossible to imagine) than the big side valve BSA's and Nortons with whjich we were issued.
Now people buy Enfields (I suppose) because they think it is/was a classic British bike!
( Wavering off thread - i was parked this morning alongside a 400cc Piaggio three wheel device. I could not help wondering if I would not soon be ready for this' bath chair') After talking to the rider and his wife it seems certain that pretty well all my journies could be done on this machine. It will go well over the maximum autoroute speeds, carries enough luggage, really goes round corners! but the image, Oh dear. I suggested we swop for a day. He looked at my bike - 'i haven't a licence for that, i have never ridden a motorbike' he replied;

 

[Aggy]

( Wavering off thread - i was parked this morning alongside a 400cc Piaggio three wheel device. I could not help wondering if I would not soon be ready for this' bath chair') ;

NEVER too old. My Uncle is 71 and last year he road a round trip of 700 miles on a 42 year old Triumph Trophy to do the Manx TT on the Isle of Man. He was there for 10 days under canvas as well.


Ooops, off topic . Errrrr, yeah Chinese bits nasty grumble mumble winge winge winge damn Johnny foreigner never catch me buying one moan winge moan winge grumble bleet .........phew I think I got away with that one, can't risk stepping out of line here without a flameproof suit on

Mind you I bet the Chinese would make a far better FPC

 

[DutchBryn]

Hardly anyone works directly in manufaturing in GB.
Ergo, few care where stuff is made. HP sauce - Birmingham? Nope,
made in NL. Queen MaryII? Well, France, obviously.

Next phase of credit crunch lies ahead. Then service jobs will feel it too.
Difference between (say) a chemicals works and a Dixons / office complex, is that when an industrial plant is gone, it's gone.

Don't get me wrong. I worked in manufacturing and sourced components made in China. Quality / price = V. good
But the longer this imbalance goes on, the more painful the correction is likely to be.

 

[cherokee]

Build quality!

I think that the original post was about build quality,BMW charge a shed load of money for their bikes,buying one no mater what you guys will say is about the badge,you expect the same kind of quality as the cars and to be honest why shouldnt you.This is a motorcycle we are talking about something that if you choose should be able to be ridden in all weathers and conditions,without paint flaking off frames,FD leaks and failures,fuel pump,etc etc etcOf course mechanical things break down,but for me anyway when you look real close at the gs models and i mean close the quality of the build is not upwards of £10,000.The paint on the frame looks like it was put on by the wind,and the stevie wonder school of welding were let loose on the bike,i love the Gs bikes,cool looking, functional but when i sold my 1150gsa which was real tough to keep looking nice and was looking for a new bike to spend my hard earn cash on, as much as i wanted, and i really did want to buy a 1200gsa when i looked at them at the nec,excel shows up close they just didnt look well built cosmeticaly sure some here will say im to fussy there meant to be a rugged bike maybe a bit rough around the edges but ffs you could buy a jap trail bike/tourer for a fraction of the cost of a BMW and if your honest you'd be hard pressed to fault it for the money so the bottom line i think is you buy a Gs because its an iconic bike it as the blue propeller badge and as long as the german guys can churn em out they'll build them in germany,china,thailand india borneo,or anywhere they can get cheap labour and big profits.........

 

[Brian ROSEN]

OAP's on bikes!

"... My Uncle is 71 and last year he road a round trip of 700 miles on a 42 year old Triumph Trophy to do the Manx TT ..." 700 miles on a Triuph Trpphy is an achievement even for a relatively young man. I last rode around the TT course in 1947, the first post war TT, on my 1947 BSA A7 twin.and decided to 'do' the Clubmans the year after BUT I soon found myself on an Army motorcycle and that wad the end of my racing ambitions!
Not really too far off thread when you realise what happened to the wonderful British motorcycle industry.