Too true, there can be over 10% discrepancy between torque wrenches (even when new) and at only 25Nm dirt and grit can affect the tightness achieved. I've just checked mine and they are certainly not loose and I've just come back from a 4000mile French trip.harry said:Just checked mine, upper fastener each side about 22Nm,lower ones about correct. There can of course be disparity between Torque wrenches
(RIP) Bin Ridin
Registered user
Loctite...
If you find the bolts are below the correct torque, i.e. if they move when tested, I think they have to be removed, cleaned and re-loctited.
Not a good idea just to tighten them, imho.
If you find the bolts are below the correct torque, i.e. if they move when tested, I think they have to be removed, cleaned and re-loctited.
Not a good idea just to tighten them, imho.
Triple
Guest
I hope I didn't start any GS bashing off!! Not the intention of this thread.
No news from the dealer yet although they said they are going to give the bike quite high priority just in case it is an issue that needs resolved.
No news from the dealer yet although they said they are going to give the bike quite high priority just in case it is an issue that needs resolved.
Mouse
Registered user
Well I don't have any torx drivers for my torque wrench yet (!) but I checked my bolts and they felt tight to my precision calibrated right arm 
Deleted account 211025001
Registered user
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Triple said:
Not at all!
Thanks for bringing it to the groups attention - I hope your mate has the issue reolved asap.
Andres
(RIP) Geriatric Germ
Registered user
Gecko said:Trailwings.....also known as 'Deathwings' although I have never tried them myslef - see FAQ section on tyres.
Glad to hear your mate survived to tell the story - very very scarey
FWIW, My bikes have been fitted with Trailwings, and apart from rapid wear (my riding style?) found them to be grippy in the wet and dry and real confidence enspiring.
On a different tack, the mind boggles, having had at least two previous problems with Handling on the same trip, why the Pilot still rode at around the Eighties. I would have dumped it and got BUM to recover and Fix.
AZDrifterus
Guest
Torque Values
As these bolts are providing a "pinch" to the fork tubes, the pinching tension should keep the bolts tight.
Someone should check the depth of the threaded hole versus the length of the bolt.
If the bolts are bottoming in the holes, the torque values are not correct and are not applying enough "pinch".
As these bolts are providing a "pinch" to the fork tubes, the pinching tension should keep the bolts tight.
Someone should check the depth of the threaded hole versus the length of the bolt.
If the bolts are bottoming in the holes, the torque values are not correct and are not applying enough "pinch".
Doodie
Guest
Well I guess this problem isnt specific to you all over accross the pond. My two top bolts were at 8NM and the bottom two were completely different values of 15NM and 18NM. I tightened them down to spec, and will hope for the best. I guess, I will have to check on them periodically. Kind of scary if you ask me.
ktmmark
Registered user
you may find when you tighten the first pinch bolt & then the second on the same leg the first bolt will be below torque again & need tightening again (this is normal )
hope this is of help
hope this is of help
Cestria
Registered user
ktmmark said:you may find when you tighten the first pinch bolt & then the second on the same leg the first bolt will be below torque again & need tightening again (this is normal )
hope this is of help
That is a good point.
Checked mine yesterday just before an evening trip to the pub to meet a couple of fellow GS'ers, all four of the bolts took a bit of a nip up with the wrench set to 25NM.
If the torque setting is specified for a clean dry bolt and hole, remember that loctiting them would essentially lubricate the threads as they are tightened and effectively give you a tighter bolt than is specified.
Will keep an eye on them.
All four of mine needed a slight nip yesterday, and my Torque wrench is a professional one and is in date for calibration. I would estimate they were probably at 20Nm before tightening them correctly. Something to keep an eye on methinks. I will fit Wunderlich steering lock protectors this month and use loctite.
pogo
Registered user
hello my friends,
to my opinion it is not a good idea to check with the dynamo tool if they are tightened at the right torque,because the locktite works a a glue,and after a while,gets dry,so if you moove the bolt,you just break the seal and the locktite is not working well anymore.
the best thing to do to prevent any unscrewing surprise is to put a mark on the head of the bolt,and the frame,so whith a quick check before riding you can see if it was moving
See you on the road, pogo
to my opinion it is not a good idea to check with the dynamo tool if they are tightened at the right torque,because the locktite works a a glue,and after a while,gets dry,so if you moove the bolt,you just break the seal and the locktite is not working well anymore.
the best thing to do to prevent any unscrewing surprise is to put a mark on the head of the bolt,and the frame,so whith a quick check before riding you can see if it was moving
See you on the road, pogo
(RIP) Bin Ridin
Registered user
Torque and Loctite
Threads Locked by Adhesive
http://www.boltscience.com/pages/quality.htm
It has been shown by extensive test work that locking the male to female thread by means of adhesive gives the fastened assembly excellent resistance to vibration loosening. The adhesive may be applied in liquid form at the assembly stage, or the threads may have been coated previously with an anaerobic adhesive which cures when the parts have been assembled.
Most thread locking adhesives tend to display a thread friction coefficient which is higher than what is normally present in the threads, also, a slight prevailing torque characteristic will be present. By the correct specification of tightening torque both these effects can be accounted for accurately. Full cure of the adhesive is normally achieved within 24 hours but is dependent upon the finish applied to the fastener, the bond gap and ambient temperature. With the liquid applied adhesive an activator can be used to improve curing time.
Measuring the assembly torque, dynamically, at the assembly stage does not present any problem when using adhesive to lock the threads together. Problems are present however when the assembly torque is required to be checked after assembly. The use of any of the three methods for torque auditing of threads which have been bonded by adhesive does present problems. If the cured bond is broken to check the torque, the vibration resistance of the fastener assembly may be impaired. Secondly, the hardened adhesive in the threads increases the thread's friction characteristics so that on re-tightening less torque goes into achieving preload and more in overcoming friction. Due to these reasons any of the three methods for post assembly torque auditing are unsuitable for threads which have been bonded together by adhesive.
A common method of checking that the specified assembly has been achieved is to re-tighten the joint up to the specified torque whilst checking that the male relative to the female member does not move. The effect of the adhesive is to augment the assembly torque so that the breakloose torque is some 10% to 30% above the value of the assembly torque. Hence if the torque specification was correctly achieved, no rotation of the male relative to the female member should occur at the assembly torque value.
Threads Locked by Adhesive
http://www.boltscience.com/pages/quality.htm
It has been shown by extensive test work that locking the male to female thread by means of adhesive gives the fastened assembly excellent resistance to vibration loosening. The adhesive may be applied in liquid form at the assembly stage, or the threads may have been coated previously with an anaerobic adhesive which cures when the parts have been assembled.
Most thread locking adhesives tend to display a thread friction coefficient which is higher than what is normally present in the threads, also, a slight prevailing torque characteristic will be present. By the correct specification of tightening torque both these effects can be accounted for accurately. Full cure of the adhesive is normally achieved within 24 hours but is dependent upon the finish applied to the fastener, the bond gap and ambient temperature. With the liquid applied adhesive an activator can be used to improve curing time.
Measuring the assembly torque, dynamically, at the assembly stage does not present any problem when using adhesive to lock the threads together. Problems are present however when the assembly torque is required to be checked after assembly. The use of any of the three methods for torque auditing of threads which have been bonded by adhesive does present problems. If the cured bond is broken to check the torque, the vibration resistance of the fastener assembly may be impaired. Secondly, the hardened adhesive in the threads increases the thread's friction characteristics so that on re-tightening less torque goes into achieving preload and more in overcoming friction. Due to these reasons any of the three methods for post assembly torque auditing are unsuitable for threads which have been bonded together by adhesive.
A common method of checking that the specified assembly has been achieved is to re-tighten the joint up to the specified torque whilst checking that the male relative to the female member does not move. The effect of the adhesive is to augment the assembly torque so that the breakloose torque is some 10% to 30% above the value of the assembly torque. Hence if the torque specification was correctly achieved, no rotation of the male relative to the female member should occur at the assembly torque value.
Cestria
Registered user
Anyone got a definitive BWM manual to see if these bolts should be loctited or not ?
The info I have seen on this site does not indicate the use of loctite and a tightening torque of 25NM is specified.
The info I have seen on this site does not indicate the use of loctite and a tightening torque of 25NM is specified.
Doodie
Guest
pogo said:hello my friends,
to my opinion it is not a good idea to check with the dynamo tool if they are tightened at the right torque,because the locktite works a a glue,and after a while,gets dry,so if you moove the bolt,you just break the seal and the locktite is not working well anymore.
the best thing to do to prevent any unscrewing surprise is to put a mark on the head of the bolt,and the frame,so whith a quick check before riding you can see if it was moving
See you on the road, pogo
I agree to a point...but if the bolts were torqued to the proper specs when the lock tite was originally applied, and now the end result is 50% less the spec, then it means that the lock tite was probably compromised from the get go. I agree the best thing to do would be to remove the bolts one at a time apply lock tite and re tourque to specs. I however just tightened mine and will keep an eye on them as they are marked like you suggested, if they back out I will do the above mentioned process of removing each and re-applying new lock tite.
