Come-on there's a huge difference between off road and a Surrey grass verge
I'm no offroad riding god like some on here, but quite enjoy taking it down the odd green lane & fire track.
1290 Super Adventure v 1200 GSA test ride
- Thread starter dsb79
- Start date
I'm no offroad riding god like some on here, but quite enjoy taking it down the odd green lane & fire track.
Deleted account 190920001
Registered user
- Joined
- Oct 15, 2009
- Messages
- 3,368
- Reaction score
- 0
Don't know if a 1290r would be bigger and heavier other than say the 2kg of the heavier crank. No idea if they will but I see a 1290r as the same bike but with the 1290 engine it it. Agreed though, why other than another model to sell. Or maybe they will all be 1290. 1290R, A and SA, KTM's MM, GS and GSA...... Kinda.
Really can't see KTM turning out a 1290 R, I'm sure that they would be smart enough to recognise it would be a step too far to try and make something with no real niche to fill.
I think it's pretty safe to say that the 1290 SA is a response to a market driven brief that simply was not there 10-15 years ago, but which is a money spinner right now.
If anything I can see things going into reverse in the next 5 years with engine sizes getting smaller as we start to realise that a sledgehammer is not always the best tool to crack a nut.
Anyone remember how everyone was in awe of beasts like the Z1300 or Honda's six cyl CBX? That was until we worked out that no matter how drool worthy they were they were actually out performed by smaller lighter machines in the areas they were supposedly designed to operate in.
There's plenty written on here very deservedly giving high praise for what the 1190 R can do in an awfull lot of environments and conditions but there's not a lot of people who could realy use it to full effect off road in anger, and a 1290 R would move that ability even further out of reach for all but the likes of Chris Birch and Co.
I'm putting a bet on us all sitting here in 7-8 years time seeing most adventure bikes being 600-800cc and talking about those crazy 1190's that KTM no longer make and how we were one of the lucky few to have experienced ownership of them
I think it's pretty safe to say that the 1290 SA is a response to a market driven brief that simply was not there 10-15 years ago, but which is a money spinner right now.
If anything I can see things going into reverse in the next 5 years with engine sizes getting smaller as we start to realise that a sledgehammer is not always the best tool to crack a nut.
Anyone remember how everyone was in awe of beasts like the Z1300 or Honda's six cyl CBX? That was until we worked out that no matter how drool worthy they were they were actually out performed by smaller lighter machines in the areas they were supposedly designed to operate in.
There's plenty written on here very deservedly giving high praise for what the 1190 R can do in an awfull lot of environments and conditions but there's not a lot of people who could realy use it to full effect off road in anger, and a 1290 R would move that ability even further out of reach for all but the likes of Chris Birch and Co.
I'm putting a bet on us all sitting here in 7-8 years time seeing most adventure bikes being 600-800cc and talking about those crazy 1190's that KTM no longer make and how we were one of the lucky few to have experienced ownership of them
Davy F
Registered user
Attachments
Striker
Registered user
- Joined
- Apr 15, 2003
- Messages
- 358
- Reaction score
- 0
Maybe Honda have already started to roll that ball........
or KTM with its 1050....................
Davy F
Registered user
They all need to work on (and I'm sure they already are) innovative ways to get the engine and chassis weights down. Think first Fireblades compared to GSXR 1100 of the day and how that moved things on.
I'm predicting smaller engines, perhaps up to half the cc but without loosing the whole 50% of the power/torque, and composite frames, maybe thin walled steel or aly tubes wrapped in carbon fibre?
There are already some smaller capacity bikes out there as you've all pointed out but I reckon the reason they don't sell in the numbers of the bigger bikes is because (apart from popular trend) most still have pretty much the same wieght as the larger engined bikes but don't offer anything more on the road but more importantly don't offer much if anything more off road?
I'm predicting smaller engines, perhaps up to half the cc but without loosing the whole 50% of the power/torque, and composite frames, maybe thin walled steel or aly tubes wrapped in carbon fibre?
There are already some smaller capacity bikes out there as you've all pointed out but I reckon the reason they don't sell in the numbers of the bigger bikes is because (apart from popular trend) most still have pretty much the same wieght as the larger engined bikes but don't offer anything more on the road but more importantly don't offer much if anything more off road?
Deleted account 211025001
Registered user
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2005
- Messages
- 8
- Reaction score
- 10
Don't forget though that proper Dual Sports are a very small, niche market and not one that volume manufacturers would be much interested in for sales (prestige maybe, but not direct sales).
GS's are sold to people that want a tourer but don't want a 'tourer' (eg RT or similar). They may have once been bought by people that wanted an off road capable bike but that's long gone. That's not to say that some people don't take them off road of course..................
The 1190R though is, I think, quite unique in so much as it is actually a good off road bike (as opposed to just capable), has blistering on road performance and handling and will do a two up tour, not as well as a GS, but more than adequately. That said, it still appeals (in this country) to people who want it solely or mainly for the road (myself included).
The 1290 is a tourer, in the same mould as the GS Adv. Better in some respects, less good in others but on balance very similar.
So, what I'm babbling on about is I'd be surprised if bikes like these will get any smaller as they are sold as tourers, not Dual Sports. Any reference to Dual Sport is purely in the Marketing Departments hyperbole. The only exception is, maybe, the 1190R but even that is bought by people that want a tourer that can off road as much for the image as the reality.
Anyway, just to prove that any bike can go anywhere and that it's all a matter of attitude here's the same lane, a couple of years apart. The KTM is obviously far superior as it's on road tyres, the GS was on TKCs
Oh, and BTW Nutty...........whilst fire tracks, gravel tracks are great fun on a bike they are NOT 'off road'. An R1 could tackle a fire track quite successfully
Come up to the Peaks this winter for some proper muddy fun
Andres
GS's are sold to people that want a tourer but don't want a 'tourer' (eg RT or similar). They may have once been bought by people that wanted an off road capable bike but that's long gone. That's not to say that some people don't take them off road of course..................
The 1190R though is, I think, quite unique in so much as it is actually a good off road bike (as opposed to just capable), has blistering on road performance and handling and will do a two up tour, not as well as a GS, but more than adequately. That said, it still appeals (in this country) to people who want it solely or mainly for the road (myself included).
The 1290 is a tourer, in the same mould as the GS Adv. Better in some respects, less good in others but on balance very similar.
So, what I'm babbling on about is I'd be surprised if bikes like these will get any smaller as they are sold as tourers, not Dual Sports. Any reference to Dual Sport is purely in the Marketing Departments hyperbole. The only exception is, maybe, the 1190R but even that is bought by people that want a tourer that can off road as much for the image as the reality.
Anyway, just to prove that any bike can go anywhere and that it's all a matter of attitude here's the same lane, a couple of years apart. The KTM is obviously far superior as it's on road tyres, the GS was on TKCs
Oh, and BTW Nutty...........whilst fire tracks, gravel tracks are great fun on a bike they are NOT 'off road'. An R1 could tackle a fire track quite successfully
Come up to the Peaks this winter for some proper muddy fun
Andres
I crapped myself on this in the Taffy Dakar!! Now imagine doing it on something even bigger ... !!
its been a while since I did it but this looks remarkably like the run down sarn helen to the river, south to north...much entertainment on the return, popping the front wheel up in the river to get up the first rock step....ah, those were the days
Andres, your right about the 1290 SA remaining large capacity as I think that's what people want. As you say it's an alternative tourer that doesn't follow the design/look of the previously recognised continent crossing pigeon holed tourers.
My prediction for smaller engines was aimed at the 1190 R.
I bought mine because it "had the look and style of an off-roader" that I wanted but could still boogy more than just a bit on tarmac, was comfortable for me, would be able to take me anywhere I chose to tour and was something different after owning a few GS's.
The fact that it does off road so well was simply an added bonus for the likes of me, and I suspect most other people who buy them.
I reckon that the people who do buy it primarily for its off road ability to suit the environments they ride in (read Australia/Africa/the America's) dirt roads won't be seeking what the 1290 engine in an 1190 R chassis would be offering.
I suspect over time more people who ride predominantly roads will drift towards the Super Adventure reducing the demand for the R spec bikes which then takes me to my point.
i.e Fewer people asking for a bike with a bonkers engine and 200++ kilo's for off road use.
In the mean time just enjoy it while it's here
,I actually hope my prediction is way off the mark as we need these sort of bikes to rise above what the sensible people would have us all riding
I'll look out for the cheque from the KTM Marketing Dept in 7 years time
My prediction for smaller engines was aimed at the 1190 R.
I bought mine because it "had the look and style of an off-roader" that I wanted but could still boogy more than just a bit on tarmac, was comfortable for me, would be able to take me anywhere I chose to tour and was something different after owning a few GS's.
The fact that it does off road so well was simply an added bonus for the likes of me, and I suspect most other people who buy them.
I reckon that the people who do buy it primarily for its off road ability to suit the environments they ride in (read Australia/Africa/the America's) dirt roads won't be seeking what the 1290 engine in an 1190 R chassis would be offering.
I suspect over time more people who ride predominantly roads will drift towards the Super Adventure reducing the demand for the R spec bikes which then takes me to my point.
i.e Fewer people asking for a bike with a bonkers engine and 200++ kilo's for off road use.
In the mean time just enjoy it while it's here
,I actually hope my prediction is way off the mark as we need these sort of bikes to rise above what the sensible people would have us all riding I'll look out for the cheque from the KTM Marketing Dept in 7 years time
I'm starting to develop an unhealthy desire for one of those new fangled 1290 SA's for year round commuting & touring, may need to get a cost to change quote and test ride sorted out....
Similar threads
