2nd bike nicked from H'row - immobiliser question

[skywalker]

Somebody's bent some where getting hold of a key that works your bike!!
Might be worth getting in touch with BMW who should be able to tell you if a key was ordered for your bike under the chassis number.
There's a series of protocols that have to be followed before a spare is issued by BMW, so I think that would be a good place to start.

 

[Hornet69]

Not sure you are going to get any joy asking BWM if they supplied keys for the bike. If they admit to supplying keys then it highlights problems with the issuing system. Would they really want the bad publicity. BUT saying that, if they say no they didn't supply a new key, then does this highlight bike security issues and would that not be worse publicity? I'd be interested to hear what they come back with if you do ask.

Maybe best to just pass the idea to the police and let them request the info officially?

Hope the insurance people don't keep you waiting to long for a payout.

Cheers,

H

 

[jeff]

BMW security

But then again if you know what you're doing you can immobilse a bmw in seconds without getting your hands dirty and no one will be able to ride it away.

But not much you can do about someone picking it up and putting it in a van.

Is this information you are willing to share with legitimate owners

 

[Steptoe]

Is this information you are willing to share with legitimate owners

Nope, otherwise it becomes pointless.

But I've told quite a few of my customers.

Call it one of the many perks of being a customer of mine.

 

[skywalker]

Not sure you are going to get any joy asking BWM if they supplied keys for the bike. If they admit to supplying keys then it highlights problems with the issuing system. Would they really want the bad publicity. BUT saying that, if they say no they didn't supply a new key, then does this highlight bike security issues and would that not be worse publicity? I'd be interested to hear what they come back with if you do ask.

Maybe best to just pass the idea to the police and let them request the info officially?

Hope the insurance people don't keep you waiting to long for a payout.

Cheers,

H

Like any system it works so long as its adhered to.
Unfortunatley like life it 'aint like that.
The point in question from what I know is that to obtain a spare key from your dealer certain documents have to be produced & photocopied etc etc to prove ownership of said vehicle & on producing said documents a spare key can be ordered via the normal parts ordering system.
To enable the bike to have been ridden off as posted either the previous owner has lost a spare key.
Somebody's obtained one through dubious means.
Or they had time to strip the bodywork of and replace the engine ECU.
If its an official key thats been used ( and there are 10 available per bike before an ecu has to be replaced) then there has to be an audit trail .

 

[jeff]

Nope, otherwise it becomes pointless.

But I've told quite a few of my customers.

Call it one of the many perks of being a customer of mine.

Fair. Might just do that when guarantee period expires

 

[GS TRV]

Sorry to hear that dude. Those are pretty special bikes to be commuting on - I presume you'll get something a little less desirable for the next time?

(would dread to see your insurance renewal )

 

[Deleted account 190920001]

I know you can buy spare keys for a bike but so far as I am aware they still have to be coded to your ecu. So even with a dodgy dealer supplying keys you would still need the electronics to code it to the bike. Even if the key had the same ID it still wouldn't work as the key and ecu swap codes when they are used. Simply putting a key in with the right id would still have the wrong code so would be rejected. Now I don't know if this is the case with BMW bikes but it definitely is the case with every other coded system I have come across.
Long story short someone has portable kit that can tell the ECU to accept a key transponder. It isn't inconceivable that the same kit would work on BMW cars so worth the investment. They can then either not have a key (just the transponder and keep it near the antenna) and smash the lock which is fairly easy to do or somehow have a key that works. Probably only takes a min or two with a key to get the seat off and reprogram.
Takes balls to do this but then so does whipping out an angle grinder to a big chain in Public. In this case, definitely a pro and at a guess the bike is long gone now.
Solution is as Steptoe said and or fit an after-market immobiliser. That way without intimate knowledge of the bike they will never get it going in a reasonable time. They can still lift it into a van though.

 

[(RIP) Miff]

Nope, otherwise it becomes pointless.

But I've told quite a few of my customers.

Call it one of the many perks of being a customer of mine.

You remove the FPC and take it with you, don't you???

 

[autogs]

I know you can buy spare keys for a bike but so far as I am aware they still have to be coded to your ecu. So even with a dodgy dealer supplying keys you would still need the electronics to code it to the bike. Even if the key had the same ID it still wouldn't work as the key and ecu swap codes when they are used. Simply putting a key in with the right id would still have the wrong code so would be rejected. Now I don't know if this is the case with BMW bikes but it definitely is the case with every other coded system I have come across.
Long story short someone has portable kit that can tell the ECU to accept a key transponder. It isn't inconceivable that the same kit would work on BMW cars so worth the investment. They can then either not have a key (just the transponder and keep it near the antenna) and smash the lock which is fairly easy to do or somehow have a key that works. Probably only takes a min or two with a key to get the seat off and reprogram.
Takes balls to do this but then so does whipping out an angle grinder to a big chain in Public. In this case, definitely a pro and at a guess the bike is long gone now.
Solution is as Steptoe said and or fit an after-market immobiliser. That way without intimate knowledge of the bike they will never get it going in a reasonable time. They can still lift it into a van though.

wrong im afraid,if you order a key when it arrives you just put it in and off you go.

 

[Keitht]

Hey all,

Thanks for the comments. True that it's a special bike to be commuting on, clearly too special in this day and age! Planning to look for something less eyecatching to provide smiles for me but less of a hard-on for the thieving scum out there.

Any ideas for a great 'Q bike' ? Seen a nice Tiger 1050 around that's been lowered, new exhaust etc that doesn't look much but probably plenty fun to ride. Anyone know of anything similar with a GS?

 

[Pauly S]

dvla link

After trawling the Internet there seem to be two possible ways.

1. Go to a dealer with the vin, key code (if available so not actually required) and title documents. Perhaps a dealer has to contact BMW to get the necessary info to program the key and lies about seeing the title docs. BMW might have a record of this.

2. I have seen companies offering a service where you send in your ecu and they will return it with two new working keys. The thief could use the same equipment at the bike if he can gain access to the ecu to create a new chip and then force the barrel.

This is supposition but it makes me wonder about how secure my immobiliser really is. Maybe we should put a tamper evident sticker over the vin to keep it secret.

Punch in the reg number into a dvla link and the vin is revealed...
clock the bike,get the reg number,go to the dvla and voila vin numbers all yours...
pm me your reg number and i'll tell you your vin number.

I used to fit security to motorcycles.If the system is original equipment,it will be bypassed, there will always be some fcuker who will get the key to the standard system.
The only way round avoiding a ride away is fit a non standard alarm system fitted by a quality installer,who takes the tiime and trouble to do virtually every bike differently.That way your theiving scumbag wont know what their up against,i used to even go to the trouble of changing the size and colour of the leds.never fit any sticker which tells the feckers what make of alarm you have either.
The unknown is the hardest thing to get round.Ive even fitted an alarm to a bike which did nothing, it was a decoy, the real alarm was hidden well out of sight.cunning is good.
If you fit an led,absolutely hide the led wiring big time,even down to the extent of putting the led wiring under the tape of the main loom, that way you cant follow the led wiring to the alarm location.

interestingly a number plate change causes some data loss from garage dvla systems.i'll try my bike reg on the dvla link tommoz.
edit i just tried it,the new reg number reveals no data,but punch in the old reg and its there.So change the reg number on yer bike,and they will have to look at the vin number on the machine.
Next hIde the vin number,perhaps fill in the numbers with body filler and spray paint over.It can be picked out with a pick if needed, but would be a real bugger to read .sorted.

 

[bmwrich58]

You remove the FPC and take it with you, don't you???

Nope...Easier than that..!
We did this as kids to one another for a joke!...

 

[MattW]

You remove the FPC and take it with you, don't you???

Just take the back wheel off - 10 minutes on a boxer (not so sure about those new fangled S100RR's though)

 

[derby dave]

i had 3 top blokes visit my garage few years ago trying to lift my harley it was wedged in the far corner it had a gsxr behind it, with a granite lock and chain front wheel to back the harley was alarmed so was the suzuki, they disarmed both alarms undid the lock and got the harley out of the side entrance door without putting a scratch on it they lifted the fence panel round the back and put chocks in place to stop the panel falling down i was so lucky they had to open the side gates i heard a noise looked out the window and there was this bloke with a mini maglite in his mouth forcing the main gate you can guess what happened next the harley was on the back lawn on its sidestand whew!! police were here inside 2mins but they were gone, went in the front of the garage had to unlock it thinking the suzuki would be gone but it was sitting there however my britool tool cabinet 4ft tall along with the top cabinet gone, the police traced the route over the rear of the house over a 6ft wall when i showed the copper the picture of the cabinet they lifted he was shocked and it was full! credit to my next doors son who was watching them jemmy the door and carrying off my kit mind he was only 8

 

[GS TRV]

Hey all,

Thanks for the comments. True that it's a special bike to be commuting on, clearly too special in this day and age! Planning to look for something less eyecatching to provide smiles for me but less of a hard-on for the thieving scum out there.

Any ideas for a great 'Q bike' ? Seen a nice Tiger 1050 around that's been lowered, new exhaust etc that doesn't look much but probably plenty fun to ride. Anyone know of anything similar with a GS?

A 2nd hand Transalp would do the trick

 

[(RIP) Miff]

Nope...Easier than that..!
We did this as kids to one another for a joke!...

Superglue the ignition barrel up???

 

[hughguzzi]

simple immobiliser

On my MG 1100sport inj I fitted a simple rally car / tractor cut off switch to the earth line direct to battery - (hidden) simples ! - I want to do the same on my 1150 gs but can anyone tell me if anything other than the clock needs electric when engine off and key out ? Can you take a line just to the clock so all appears normal and dont have to reset ? In the absence of the trade secrets mentioned previously is this a feasable / cheap option ?

 

[Deleted account 190920001]

wrong im afraid,if you order a key when it arrives you just put it in and off you go.

Well if that is actually the case and I am not convinced it is then BMW has no security. You should not be able to buy a key from anywhere that works without programming. Even my old Ford Focus needs a new key programmed!

 

[Neil W]

Car manufacturers/ Insurers got together in the late 90's and from 97 ALL cars sold in the UK /EU were fitted with manufacturers immobilisers keyed to the ecu.

Car thefts of newer vehicles plummetted , the only way to get newer cars is with the keys unless it is uplifted on a low loader/ spec lift.

That is why so called two in one burglaries have gone through the roof , they break into the house to steal the keys and then nick the car off the driveway/street. DO NOT LEAVE VEHICLE KEYS IN HALLWAYS ETC next to letter boxes/open windows and FF sake lock your doors at night.

Unfortunately bike manufacturers did not get onboard with this scheme and very few have standard security features keyed to the ECU and ignition.

If they want it they will go to extraordinary lengths to steal it.

I've seen them in one case disable a commercial premises alarm system, knock a hole in a double brick wall then enter the place and using oxy acetylene cut into a secure security container to steal a mates new suzuki 450 MX bike.

As for parking on the street use locks etc and make it as time consuming and awkward for the thief BUT the problem is bikes being small are notoriously difficult to alarm and keep the boxes hidden and so can be quickly overcome.
You can fit a Tracker etc on a car/commercial vehicle and it may take thieves hours to find it , which increases the likelyhood of them being caught .

The public also tend not to be bike aware and look the other way rather than collar two or three gorillas lifting a bike into the back of a van . They would ring in if someone popped the window of a car in front of them.

Or even worse they will wait hours before phoning in. This usually happens when they see a neighbours shed being screwed at 2am and ring in at 9am as they don't want to disturb anyone.

Bit of a pain BUT if your bike is regularly left in one place in the public domain (ie outside a house/ flat or at a place of work) it will be vulnerable. You have to make it as difficult as possible for anyone to steal it and unless it is a highly professional gang stealing a specific bike to order they will go for an easier target.

Use the old advice.
1. Use the bloody ignition lock, it will at least stop some 15 year old scrote wheeling away the bike.
2. If you have a decent lock use it, and if possible lock the bike to something substantial.
3. Consider and alarm/immobiliser , it may give you that extra couple of minutes which prevent the theft.
4. If you leave the bike on the street/ in a works car park use a cover, it might be a pain BUT it draws attention if people remove the cover .
5. Keep car park attendant/ work security sweet, chat to them and if they know you they are much more likely to keep an eye on your bike.
6. Consider a pager type alarm, it may give you the chance to catch them !!!.
7. Similarly consider where CCTV is located and park in an area that is covered, again it may be a deterrent.
8. DO NOT for one minute think that an up and over garage door is a deterrent, especially if you do not lock it ? Alarm garages and sheds and in the case of sheds and detached garages fit an internal siren inside where it cannot be tampered with.
9. Be aware of scrotes following you home to find out where your bike is kept, they stand out like a sore thumb and if you use a bit of observational sense you will spot them, if you think you are being followed don't turn into your street go past it and then park up and see where they go.
10. When at home put your bike away out of public site. it is amazing how many people leave garage doors open for hours on end so that everyone walking/driving past can see what's inside , same as people leave the bike parked on the drive for hours after washing it. Next time you're going about your daily business as decent law abiding citizens see how many bikes you can spot in similar circumstances.

The above IS NOT a comprehensive list but just some working experience gained over the past twenty odd years.

I myself prefer large GSD's which are taught to bite, unfortunatley they will not fit in a top box.