6 thou

[bustupbiker]

Service/12 months service, am i being ripped off here or has the service changed since my 05 1200!

My St ( dealer ) is telling me the 12 month service, (the bike only has 1699 miles on it ) contains within it the need to change the brake fluid ( ABS ) SO!
is he pulling my thingy and trin to get extra cash out of me. The last bike 1200
it was 3years before they changed the fluid. Anyone no please?
Cheers. Lyn.

 

[Greg Masters]

Have a look at the service schedule and see what it says.

The usual reason to change brake fluid is that it is hydroscopic - ie it absorbs water vapour over a period which lowers its boiling point and leads to brake fade. Normally a change every two or three years (NB time, not mileage) is fine.

Greg

 

[polecat]

The manual says it should be serviced once a year. It doesn't specify what should be done at the service. My understanding has always been every 12 months or 6000 miles whichever is the sooner. My first annual service was recently done with 3500 miles on the clock. They changed all the fluids and oil etc. They told me not to bother with a 6000 miles service as all they would really do is change the oil.

 

[Myke Rocks]

This thread has been done to death before.

Have a look at the service schedule and see what it says.

The usual reason to change brake fluid is that it is hydroscopic - ie it absorbs water vapour over a period which lowers its boiling point and leads to brake fade. Normally a change every two or three years (NB time, not mileage) is fine.

Greg

As previously asked: Just how and where does the moisture get into the brake fluid? Especially when bike is rusting instead of rotating?
Myke

 

[bustupbiker]

As previously asked: Just how and where does the moisture get into the brake fluid? Especially when bike is rusting instead of rotating?
Myke

****Especially when bike is rusting instead of rotating?****

Well thank you for the replies peeps, but why the snide comment Myke! it's
out of place. Pray you don't need treatment for the big C anytime soon.

PS: normal miles would be 25000 between three bikes, per year that is.

 

[veefour]

Changing brake fluid annually does seem a little over the top. Even on the cars the service schedule for brake fluid change is 2 years regardless of mileage.

I must confess on the VFR I had the brake fluid was 8 years old (assuming it wasn't chaged in the 18 months before I got it) but the brakes were still brilliant. It was on my list of things to do though

 

[GSmonkey]

Have a look at the schedule here.

Looks as though they're talking about the fluid in the control circuits.

 

[GSband]

Brake fluid is hygroscopic and picks up moisture if the bike rides or not.
You could do nought miles and it would still need to be changed after a a specific TIME has gone by.

 

[Schtum]

Have a look at the schedule here.

Looks as though they're talking about the fluid in the control circuits.

I think that may be out of date. My local dealership tells me that BMW now recommend a brake fluid change at the initial 12 month service and every 2 years thereafter.

 

[Myke Rocks]

****Especially when bike is rusting instead of rotating?****

Well thank you for the replies peeps, but why the snide comment Myke! it's
out of place. Pray you don't need treatment for the big C anytime soon.

PS: normal miles would be 25000 between three bikes, per year that is.

Not a snide coment. An honest question - Albeit a rhetorical one.
Myke

 

[Big Nick]

Not a snide coment. An honest question - Albeit a rhetorical one.
Myke

Doesn't sound much like an apology mate, you should hang your head in shame. There's a time to take the piss and this wasn't one of them

 

[Myke Rocks]

Apologise for what?

Doesn't sound much like an apology mate, you should hang your head in shame. There's a time to take the piss and this wasn't one of them

I stated I wasn't taking the piss. So he doesn't use the bike much.
I have a friend MOT'ed the 1150 gs 2 years running & put a total of 2 miles on it. (He lives 1 mile from MOT station)
No the question still remains valid:
How does this supposed moisture get INTO the brake fluid?
Myke

 

[GSband]

The only way air or water can get into the brake fluid system, is through openings in the brake fluid system.
Possibilities :

1) Air on top of brake fluid in brake reservoir.
As pads wear, brake fluid goes down in reservoir.
The GS has a membrane in the brake fluid reservoirs, on top of the brake fluid, that goes down as the brake fluid goes down, to allow for air intake. This membrane is an effective barrier between intake of air/water and brake fluid. Should the membrane be defective, then there's an opening.
2) Brake lines : rubber is porous. The rubber could allow air in.
3) Brake pistons : this is the most likely place where there's an opening allowing the brake fluid to have contact with air, and worse : direct contact with water (while driving in wet conditions, or even when cleaning the bike).

DOT4 requires brake fluid not to boil under 230°C. A small percentage of water in the fluid (3%) already lets the boiling point come down to 140°C-180°C. As you brake, these temperatures are reached, and the fluid starts to boil. As soon as you release the brake, the brake fluid turns partly into vapor, vapors can't be compressed, loss of brakes (in short).

Link : http://auto.howstuffworks.com/auto-parts/brakes/brake-problems/air-in-brake-line.htm

BTW I found all of this on the net. Why didn't you ?

 

[Bryn]

Doesn't sound much like an apology mate, you should hang your head in shame. There's a time to take the piss and this wasn't one of them

I've heard a lot worse .. and not everyone knows everyone elses personal circumstances on here....

I'm sure Myke meant it as a tongue in cheek comment that could be read in to more due to Lyn's situation...

Letting it drop is the best way forward... and Lyn's question has been answered

 

[Myke Rocks]

Agreed.

The only way air or water can get into the brake fluid system, is through openings in the brake fluid system.
Possibilities :

1) Air on top of brake fluid in brake reservoir.
As pads wear, brake fluid goes down in reservoir.
The GS has a membrane in the brake fluid reservoirs, on top of the brake fluid, that goes down as the brake fluid goes down, to allow for air intake. This membrane is an effective barrier between intake of air/water and brake fluid. Should the membrane be defective, then there's an opening.
2) Brake lines : rubber is porous. The rubber could allow air in.
3) Brake pistons : this is the most likely place where there's an opening allowing the brake fluid to have contact with air, and worse : direct contact with water (while driving in wet conditions, or even when cleaning the bike).

DOT4 requires brake fluid not to boil under 230°C. A small percentage of water in the fluid (3%) already lets the boiling point come down to 140°C-180°C. As you brake, these temperatures are reached, and the fluid starts to boil. As soon as you release the brake, the brake fluid turns partly into vapor, vapors can't be compressed, loss of brakes (in short).

Link : http://auto.howstuffworks.com/auto-parts/brakes/brake-problems/air-in-brake-line.htm

BTW I found all of this on the net. Why didn't you ?

No, I knew the answer, but it is still not quite correct, because rubber brake lines have a polysomething liner wiich means no moisture can ingress via this route.
So: bike is parked. Seals are not moving. I would humbly suggest the brake fluid change because of moisture ingress is garbage in these circumstances, and in most others on motorcycles, because of the membrane in the reservoir.
No, this is why I stated it was a rhetorical question. Just wanted to see if anyone bit!

Myke

 

[arrybash]

Just had mine 6,000m/1 year serviced on Saturday.

The front brake fluid was changed. Logically there is no reason to change the fluid as it should last 2 years.

What I think BMW are doing is rather than have a low cost service in year 1 and then a bigger one in year 2 by alternating the fluid changes it levels the service charges out (so they are expensive every year!!!!!!!!!!!)

I negotiated with my dealer. I supplied the oils he supplied the brake fluid and charged me £158.

Chris

 

[Metisse]

No, I knew the answer, but it is still not quite correct, because rubber brake lines have a polysomething liner wiich means no moisture can ingress via this route.
So: bike is parked. Seals are not moving. I would humbly suggest the brake fluid change because of moisture ingress is garbage in these circumstances, and in most others on motorcycles, because of the membrane in the reservoir.
No, this is why I stated it was a rhetorical question. Just wanted to see if anyone bit!

Myke

If anyone is unsure may I suggest they read these articles and make up their own minds:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brake_fade

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brake_fluid.

Water molecules easily find their way past piston seals, whether they are used or not, and around the membrane in the master cylinder reservoir. These seals are not that good, water molecules are very small and brake fluid sucks them in!

Riding a heavy and powerful machine like a GS asks a lot of its brakes to stop, especially in an emergency.

You may think its garbage but please don't suggest that changing brake fluid is not necessary because the bike hasn't been used.

Yes I know I've bitten but rest assured I would not want anyone to experience brake fade of ANY kind especially on two wheels.

If your brake fluid boils it will do more that bite you on the a**e

 

[Myke Rocks]

If anyone is unsure may I suggest they read these articles and make up their own minds:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brake_fade

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brake_fluid.

Water molecules easily find their way past piston seals, whether they are used or not, and around the membrane in the master cylinder reservoir. These seals are not that good, water molecules are very small and brake fluid sucks them in!

Riding a heavy and powerful machine like a GS asks a lot of its brakes to stop, especially in an emergency.

You may think its garbage but please don't suggest that changing brake fluid is not necessary because the bike hasn't been used.

Yes I know I've bitten but rest assured I would not want anyone to experience brake fade of ANY kind especially on two wheels.

If your brake fluid boils it will do more that bite you on the a**e

I have boiled fluid in many race and rally cars over the years, but only in race conditions.
I have yet to boil the fluid on a motorcyle in road conditions.
No, I have never changed the fluid in a motocycle. No I never will, except accdentally whilst dismantled.
Race cars: I would change occasionally if suspension were not ripped out regularly.
I am not recommending this course of action. It is a personal decision, made in the knowledge of knowing what boiling brake fluid does to the brakes, & the unlikely event of it happening on a relativley light machine like an R1200 & how overbraked it is (relative to a car)
Myke