650 GS Off road capabilities

[BLUEJAY]

I had a go on some rocky roads with some loose gravel at times but mainly "steady" stones (even big ones).

My first and biggest impression is that the 650 is a little too heavy for this kind of stuff.
I could really feel its weight, especially in front.

Handlebars are not too comfy while standing on the footpegs, as I needed to grab them too much while going up.
I guess they would need raisers and also to be adjusted more forward.

At low speed, engine expresses quite some roughness while operating the throttle.

On softer terrain the overall handling was much better.

Ohh...I must say I had normal road-like tyres (Metzeler Tourance) and thus I am sure there will be consistent improvements by using off-road ones.

Since I plan to use my bike on this type of terrain quite often, and I am convinced the bigger "butts" BMW's (1150-1200 GS) will be much worse on this side, I was wondering whether I should go "Orange" next time

I bought my bike 2 1/2 years ago and had no problems with it so far.
In my experience it's a very good bike for road trips, commuting (handles like a damn scooter... ) and easy trails.
Engine is quite powerful, handling is very good and fuel consumption is awesome.
I think brakes are not that great, though!

Again, what I will be looking for in a near future would be an "ultimate" and "complete" bike to do daily road and also off-road use.
Not looking to go through Mongolia, yet ....maybe just up to the cabin where the single-cylinder lighter 600's have no problems.
But then I also need my bike to commute and do occasional 300 miles trips.
Am I asking for too much?
I know I have to "compromise", just trying to get as closed as I can...

Btw: I am not spitting on the 650 at all; just trying to get closer to my "ideal" bike

Suggestions?

Your opinion and experience will be appreciated.

TY

 

[Timolgra]

I had a GS 650 Dakar, I fitted Renthal bars, lower pegs, TKC 80 tyres.....
I bought it with the intention of it being my more off road bike.

On tarmac it was uncomfortable, the engine despite having Remus exhaust etc was not as responsive as I hoped a 650 single would be. But in Blue and white it's a good looking bike.

Off road. Too heaving for what it is, forks need stiffer springs and I never trusted the front end.

In the end I sold it and bought a Suzuki DR 650 which although also has it's limitations is a far better all round bike, far better off road and far more fun to ride.
I think I deluded myself into the 650 dakar despite having ridden one off road on several occasions.

Having just slated it, I'm sure that with a few more upgrades (like differant forks) it could become half the off road bike a KTM is

 

[Mouse]

I've been riding a 650 (not dakar) off road for a few months recently. I actually think the 1200GS is better, but the 650 isn't bad. With 15psi in TKC80 tyres, it just climbs over rocks. But like all bigger bikes on dualsport tyres it's shite in mud.

As Tim says, it'll never compare to a "proper" trail bike. But a proper trail bike wouldn't be as comfortable on the tarmac.

If you want a mind boggling idea, I did a trial (admittedly an easy one) on the F650GS recently. I think I scored a 5 (ie worst score) on nearly every section

 

[BLUEJAY]

What I am really looking forward would be something still in the so-called "adventure-like" range.
Use will be mainly on roads, but also some good handling capabilities for tough terrain would be required.

Not a "pure" endure style bike then, but one with good attitude towards it.
I am prepared to "sacrifice" some confort in exchange of that, of course.

Was thinking about something like Ktm 640 adventure or 950/990 adventure LC8 could be the tool for the job!

Cheers

 

[VAL. H.]

I had a go on some rocky roads with some loose gravel at times but mainly "steady" stones (even big ones).

My first and biggest impression is that the 650 is a little too heavy for this kind of stuff.
I could really feel its weight, especially in front.

Handlebars are not too comfy while standing on the footpegs, as I needed to grab them too much while going up.
I guess they would need raisers and also to be adjusted more forward.

At low speed, engine expresses quite some roughness while operating the throttle.

On softer terrain the overall handling was much better.

Ohh...I must say I had normal road-like tyres (Metzeler Tourance) and thus I am sure there will be consistent improvements by using off-road ones.

Since I plan to use my bike on this type of terrain quite often, and I am convinced the bigger "butts" BMW's (1150-1200 GS) will be much worse on this side, I was wondering whether I should go "Orange" next time

I bought my bike 2 1/2 years ago and had no problems with it so far.
In my experience it's a very good bike for road trips, commuting (handles like a damn scooter... ) and easy trails.
Engine is quite powerful, handling is very good and fuel consumption is awesome.
I think brakes are not that great, though!

Again, what I will be looking for in a near future would be an "ultimate" and "complete" bike to do daily road and also off-road use.
Not looking to go through Mongolia, yet ....maybe just up to the cabin where the single-cylinder lighter 600's have no problems.
But then I also need my bike to commute and do occasional 300 miles trips.
Am I asking for too much?
I know I have to "compromise", just trying to get as closed as I can...

Btw: I am not spitting on the 650 at all; just trying to get closer to my "ideal" bike

Suggestions?

Your opinion and experience will be appreciated.

TY

I've just been on the BMW level 1 off road corse. I was very suprised just how capable the 650 was, Hill climbing, decending, in ruts and on faster gravel roads.

However I agree the steering was too heavy IMO, I felt the bars should have been further forward and lighter. 'But then I do ride a 12GS and they have wide bars and light steering'
I couldn't help being amazed at how easy the 650 was to actualy ride off road (I haven't ridden a motorcycle off road for 15 years or so 'a 250 KTM in 1992' but I have done quite a lot of mountain biking) It went everywhere I pointed it and was much more capable than I was.

It is heavy though, once it's going it's gone. But not too bad to pick up 'as long as you don't drop the thing in a tree'

I agree with Mouse, I think the 12GS is much better off road, better balence more stable, lighter steering with more standover space. But it's much heavier and if you aren't careful your on the floor and have a 200 kilo bike to recover.

I had a couple of gose on the 12adv and found it to be even more caperble off road than the other two, though the seat hight was just too high (even on the low setting) for my 33in inside leg.

I guess I would plump for the 12GS with whire wheels TKC's and engine bars, along with the low seat and a couple of strong mates to ride with.

Better on the road than the 650 and better off road than the 650 But thats just my opinion.

 

[Blue Sweeper]

I think they make good flying machines.

 

[dotcaf]

Adventure bikes are all about compromise, I think. Personally I went for the Dakar. I'm planning a ride from London to Oz next year on it.

For me, an adventure bike should:

- be able to carry sufficient luggage (i.e. a decent subframe)
- realistically be set up for 70% road and gravel and 30% max full off road
- be a bike for taking it easy on the speed front (what's the adventure in rushing)
- be simple to maintain
- have a decent range in the fuel tank

So, on the luggage front, that's going to increase weight by at least 30kgs anyway, taking away the lightness benefit of most trail bikes, which would be unlikely to have a decent enough subframe anyway. Both the KTMs and GS/Dakars are probably better on this front. Japanese ones would also be good.

On the road focus, I think that the KTM is much more off road than on. The BMs seem to have a good balance between the two. The KTM is meant to vibrate a lot on road and be less comfortable.

Speed wise, I think that in most random countries, 600 plus is massive and plenty to pass, but will take 'racing' out of the equation. The police in most of these countries will have plenty of reasons for pulling you over already without the speed factor. If you're after a bike that you can use for great weekend blasts, then a 1000 would be handy too (personally, I have a separate bike for that). Also, cost wise, if you have to get a carnet, which can be 2-3 times the value, you could end up travelling effectively with a £25k bike! An expensive looking bike also 'smells' like money for both thieves and border police.

Maintenance is much easier on the Japs and BMs than orange ones. Would go for 650 simplicity in random countries over complex 1150s any day. Too many electronic gizmos for my liking. I hear that for the 950 adventure, they're so difficult to service that KTM dealers are not all authorised to service them! They need special training first (may be wrong on this one, but read it somewhere)

On the fuel front, most 600s are going to have a range of 220 miles plus. A 10l jerry can may take that as far as 400 miles. Any trail bike is going to need 10l extra just to get to the 220 mark. I get up to 260 out of my Dakar. I expect that Japs and BMs would all be similar or better.

If you want more info on practical bikes that you can use on trails, go to www.horizonsunlimited.com Best site for it!

On a trail or off road where I was miles from home and on a longer trip (weeks plus), I'd rather be on a bike that I knew was reliable and serviceable and that I wouldn't be too upset about if it came back covered in scratches etc.

Hope this helps!
Charles

 

[Timolgra]

I think they make good flying machines.

Great photo

 

[Mouse]

I hear that for the 950 adventure, they're so difficult to service that KTM dealers are not all authorised to service them! They need special training first (may be wrong on this one, but read it somewhere)

I've just done a basic service on mine, oil, filter, brake fluid, clutch, that sort of thing. Nothing out of the ordinary, although changing the oil involves removing the fuel tanks! Valve adjustment looks like it could be time consuming (lots of stripping down to be done) but again nothing too tricky.