A pair of idiots trying to use a home made manometer

You,ve done everything right

Looks a better setup than mine for sure. Which worked perfectly

However your oil is thicker than I used. I used ATF

It makes not one slight jot of a difference what lengths the tubes are on this type of manometer

It seems like your vacuums are well out.

Set yr brass screws to 2 turns out to start with and put some slack in your cables using the adjusters

Start it up and screw one of your brasses screws in or out to slow down the oil till it stops. Then adjust the cable again till it moves then you can keep swapping between them till your levels are right

One side cable adjuster is the master so shouldn't,t be adjusted
 
Is one take off a bit clogged ??? Left hand side if oily intakes oil residue settles when you leave them on the sidestand ??

The oil moves to the side with the MOST vacuum not the least as said in post One

What is marvellous is when you catch the bloody tube on one side and pull it off with the engine running and the fooker sucks in all your ATF before you can get the hose and close the end and the garage DISAPPEARS in white smoke

The lengths have to be equal because air is elastic and 6 inches extra one side will allow more stretch and show imbalance where there is none
 
Jaythro said:
The lengths have to be equal because air is elastic and 6 inches extra one side will allow more stretch and show imbalance where there is none
Click to expand...


yes and no

you're looking for a pressure difference - not a flow difference.

yes the air is elastic - ie has a density - but it will eventually settle to its pressure - it may take 0.02 of a second though - hardly worth worrying about.

However the relative densities of the air to the oil mean that the tube would have to be a mile or so long before it made any difference.

The thinner the oil, the quicker the reaction time of the fluid and the more effect the air will have.

But - in the real world, ATF and a bit of old tubing works perfectly :thumb2

keep calm and carry on.
 
I've figured it out;

Your Bike's haunted.
Exorcism is the answer. :thumb2

It's your own fault for fiddling with the CatO'Lic converter. :rob

:hide
 
A home made u-tube manometer works just fine with mine.

How could they not work? It's about as simple and fool proof a differential pressure gauge as is possible to make... I use water with red food dye in mine - the gear oil I started with was too viscous and took far to long to react to adjustments.

I suspect an air leak on yours Bill (or such catastrophically different vacuums that you'll never get balance with the brass air screws). Have your throttle stops been fecked about with? (You do know that the actual butterfly stops shouldn't be touched?...)
 
MattW said:
A home made u-tube manometer works just fine with mine.

How could they not work? It's about as simple and fool proof a differential pressure gauge as is possible to make... I use water with red food dye in mine - the gear oil I started with was too viscous and took far to long to react to adjustments.

I suspect an air leak on yours Bill (or such catastrophically different vacuums that you'll never get balance with the brass air screws). Have your throttle stops been fecked about with? (You do know that the actual butterfly stops shouldn't be touched?...)
Click to expand...

Yes, and we didn't touch them....factory set and all that :thumb2

Just been on the blower with Steve and we're both still puzzled why the oil didn't flow the OPPOSITE direction when we flipped the ends onto the opposite sides....that defies logic :nenau

Plan now is to take my injectors and bike to Seton racing who do an ultrasonic clean, spray test and refurb of an injector for £15 each, and maybe get them to do a balance/tune at the same time....I know for sure (after running both my injectors on Speggo's bike and his on mine) that my injectors are fekked, and given the history, the nature of the fekking is likely to be gumming or blockage rather than internal damage (I hope)

£30 is less than a single injector second hand anyway, so it seems the right way forwards......I've yet to speak to Setons, but they have a dyno and set bikes up for racing, so it'll be interesting to see how much they want for the setup after they do the FIs
 
ghiribizzo said:
Got to be an airleak Fanum - allowing the oil to be pulled to one side, irrespective of which cylinder it's attached to.
Click to expand...

The more I think about this, the more it makes sense. Bill, I suggest:

1. Rearrange the tubing to ensure there are no joins and equal lengths, checking for potential damage to the tubing.

2. Check carefully and maybe replace the thinner black tubing used to fit onto the vacuum takeoffs.

hopefully this will get us to a position where the oil movement reverses when connections are reversed, and more importantly, logic and sanity is restored!
 
Fanum said:
No, it's a sealed loop......

The oil will try and equalise to the level of gravity, plus or minus the suction (vacuum) on either side of it, which should be constant apart from the fluctuations caused as each cylinder fires in turn (hence the heavy oil)


Within reason, the lengths of tube either side should make no difference :nenau
Click to expand...

Dong!

Wrong!

You have also got to consider the reduced volume of the differing amounts of air in the tubes on each side of the manometer.

That it didn't reverse when you switched cylinders means that you have multiple feck-ups going on.

<strike>Buy</strike> Borrow a proper meter!

:D

Greg
 
Greg Masters said:
Buy a proper meter!

:D

Greg
Click to expand...

Or just make a decent u tube that isn't full of joints and other potential feck ups :D

It doesn't get much simpler than a few metres of tube with liquid in pushed onto the vacuum take-off's on the TB's. It should be impossible to cock this up!

B&Q sell the perfect tubing by the metre.
 
Speggo said:
The more I think about this, the more it makes sense. Bill, I suggest:

1. Rearrange the tubing to ensure there are no joins and equal lengths, checking for potential damage to the tubing.

2. Check carefully and maybe replace the thinner black tubing used to fit onto the vacuum takeoffs.

hopefully this will get us to a position where the oil movement reverses when connections are reversed, and more importantly, logic and sanity is restored!
Click to expand...

Adjust the angle of the manometer and the tubing lengths and leaks until the oil level in both tubes is equal when the engine is running.

Job's a good 'un!

QED

Saves messing with idles and throttle bodies!

:hammer

Greg
 
Greg Masters said:
Adjust the angle of the manometer and the tubing lengths and leaks until the oil level in both tubes is equal when the engine is running.

Job's a good 'un!

QED

Saves messing with idles and throttle bodies!

:hammer

Greg
Click to expand...

Mine works loverly, but thats cos its got mercury in it:ronno
 
Have you considered using fish tank airline? It's 6mm I think so should seal round the take offs nicely. The silicone variety is about 50p per metre.
As stated before there are lots of points for error with joins etc using one piece of line should sort that or if you have to join get some good sealant and try that if you didn't already.
 
Only possible answer ..... and I reeeealy had to think about this.

One of your cylinders/piston, has been replaced by a cylinder/piston from an 850gs.
Probably done by a mischevious tosser after copious amounts of alcohol at a recent event.
This is creating a difference in the swept volume of air/vacuum, hence , more airsook on the big side.

I'm afraid its , heads off and out with the measuring stick mee lad.

Alternatively, you could put very small restrictors in the tubes and use thicker oil.
 
I know you said, "
And no, before some smartarse says 'go buy a twinmax or a harmoniser'....I can't.

I don't want to borrow one either, I just want to understand WTF we were doing wrong, and be able to fix it so I can balance my TBs from here onwards"

But how about borrowing a Twinmax and Morgan Tune to get to grips with what,s happening so your manometer works for you in the future.
I have both, brand new, that you could use/borrow to get you along the right path, would be pleased to post them to you.
 
Nippy Normans supply Touratech, Wunderlich, Desert Fox and many other makes of accessories.
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