ABS OR NO ABS...that is the question....

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1) Book a test ride (on an ABS bike)

2) Carry out an emergency stop (in a safe place)

3) Swith off ABS, repeat 2) above

4) Go with your preference:beerjug:
 
riverking said:
1) Book a test ride (on an ABS bike)

2) Carry out an emergency stop (in a safe place)

3) Swith off ABS, repeat 2) above

4) Go with your preference:beerjug:

Wise words :)
 
ABS......as you can turn it off if you want to, and you won't lose the money in the long run, you've got nothing to lose.

PS Only riding Gurus who absolutely know they won't ever have an unexpected panic moment should get the ABS-less version IMO ;)
 
Like Nadeen, just this morning, greasy roads , in half light, a myopic driver pulled straight out of his drive just as I took a quick check over left shoulder.
The ABS allowed me to panic break & manouver around the front of the car in total control of the situation (just), and at least I was still around to allow the idiot to wave an appology!
Who knows, with powerful servo brakes available with only 2 fingers needed to give forearm popping deceleration, the once the ABS has been needed in the time I,ve had the bike they must be worth every penny IMO.

See ya soon

Shep :jibberbig
 
Jimbo.

Guess it's a case of 30 years experience,(gulp!), that,on a dry road,your experience just takes over.
Plus,if the front does lock,it is possible to release the brake fractionally and re-apply it.
Human ABS?
I agree,if you've any doubts,go for it.
Interesting that race bikes don't use it!
Also interesting that,in England especially with it's overcrowded roads and bad surfaces,the idiot MCN journos praise any power increase yet there are an increasing number of riders who can't stop their bikes safely without outside assistance.
I can't bear to think about what would happen to a rider who pulled away using to much throttle on a greasy surface,spun up the back wheel and ended up on his bum!
Hello,is that BMW? Could I order Traction Control on my new bike,please?
:D
 
Interesting that race bikes don't use it!

But the big difference between race bikes and road ones is that racers can usually plan ahead where they need to brake.

I've got over 34 yrs of bikin experience and if I'm perfectly honest in an emergency I'm not sure thatI wouldn't slam em on like any other person faced with that situation.

I think ABS is good for real life stuff.

Servo assist? It works really well on the 12 but why the bother with the weight, start up process and complication when the modern sportsbikes can get there without it and therefore save the heart stopping moment if it fails.
 
Agreed,as before,in real life,if you've any doubts,go for it.
Has anyone with ABS braked proressively harder in the dry until the ABS has finally kicked in and felt just how much grip the front tyre gives?
I know that it the wet it can come into it's own,however,when the ABS is working it is constantly braking/releasing/braking and so on.
With the ABS,does the rider just continue squeezing the lever or is it progressively released until the brake is in constant use,hence decreasing the stopping distance further?
I know theoretically someone's going to say there isn't time to think,I appreciate that,but if no-one does,I won't ask 'why were you going so fast....? :D
The question's entirely out of interest,not to annoy anyone!
 
I try to practice emergency stops every time I ride my bike, wet or dry. I have ABS. I do this so that I can feel how the bike behaves when braking hard.

You can get the ABS to kick in on a dry surface. There is a set of traffic lights I approach at about 80 km/h. After checking there is nothing behind me, I slam the anchors on. I just squeeze as hard as I can. The brakes react by slowing the bike, then you will feel the ABS kick in and the front slip forward slightly, and then the ABS stops and full braking returns. The BMW system is not very smooth (tends to be pretty lumpy), but works well enough.

I got ABS so I could just grab a handful, without having to think about what the road surface is like. In emergency situations, I believe it will be a life saver.
 
For a wee while I had a bike with, and one without ABS, asides from that pretty much the same machines. No doubt that I could stop sooner on the bike without ABS - but only when doing a test on purpose (prepared to brake, specifically choosen surface etc.).

On road riding with your mind switched sort-of off, or even in hoon-mode I reckon ABS will always come up tops?

Saying that though I'm still getting my next bike without ABS - for simple reason of dirt riding, and "less is best" as concerned over complexity of bikes (gettign scary to even look at the things with maintenance in mind!). :moped:

Like Wraithwrider said: "I think ABS is good for real life stuff."
 
Just re-read the post about the BM outbraking the R1,GSXR1000 etc,doesn't quite conform to the laws of physics,however,they are journos so we've got to believe them. :D
As I asked before,if the BM system is really that good,why haven't race bikes got it?
It's not just a case of predicted stopping,but also the quickness excess speed can be lost,if a BM is quicker than the thou's at this,have the journos been feeding us rubbish about the thou's one-finger braking being enough?
 
I too have nearly 40 years experience on many varied bikes some with bad brakes ( old Brits & Harleys mostly) some with great brakes (Hondas Ducati's etc) I've never felt you could have too good a set of brakes, and if all my riding was in good conditions, dry with a good surface. I wouldn't feel the need for ABS at all.

Unfortunately Car drivers are more aggresive, road surfaces are less predictable now (in my area anyway) I ride all year round on a daily commute (70 mile round trip) in all weathers except snow & black ice if I can avoid it. ABS is just another tool to make life a little safer for average riders like myself.

Of the last two months riding (4500 miles) only a handful of days have been dry (maybe 1000 miles) The rest were crap conditions.

I wouldn't not buy a bike just because it didn't have ABS but if its an affordable effective option as is the BMW set-up I wouldn't hesitate.

Roll on the Spring

See ya soon,
Shep
 
Le singe said:
Just re-read the post about the BM outbraking the R1,GSXR1000 etc,doesn't quite conform to the laws of physics,however,they are journos so we've got to believe them. :D

Don't believe journos.. :D :D :D

The problem with the modern sports bikes isn't that the brakes aren't good enough - it's the size, and more importantly, the lenght of them.

The Beemer is longer, and it's got forks that doesn't dive, so the COG is further back, which basically means shorter stopping distance...

Can't get around the laws of physics... Now if the Beemer were equipped with the same awesome brakes as the 999R... :D
 
Joker,

C of G,interesting...yes,if the bike was a metre long and 2 metres high you'd have a problem,but if the bike was 1 metre high and 3 metres long,there would be less front biased weight transfer which would result in the front wheel being more inclined to lockup due to there being less 'weight' on it.
I feel both the BM and the thous would fall into an 'optimum' length/height ratio,accepting that the front tyres of all the bikes on test gave an almost equal level of grip,therefore could have an almost equal level of braking force applied to them,the BM's extra mass would enter negatively into the equation.
If the BM gave less front end dive,therefore less forward weight bias,the front tyre would be more inclined to lockup earlier than the thous.
But,the ABS would compensate for this.
It would have been interesting to have included a non-ABS BM as a comparison.
 
Le singe said:

As I asked before,if the BM system is really that good,why haven't race bikes got it?

Not weight......Rules.

Same reason F1 cars have had rules banning turbos, under-body vaccuum creating fans etc etc that enable them to go faster....anything that is considered a 'driver aid' tends to be banned.

Shame in a way.....top level racing has always brought huge steps forwards in vehiclew safety....If racing bike teams and developers were allowed to have ABS, we'd probably have much more sensitive and lighter ABS systems on our own bikes by now.
 
Well Matron...when ARE you getting this red (the best colour!)R1200 GS with abs then ?:D
 
Le singe,

"Just re-read the post about the BM outbraking the R1,GSXR1000 etc,doesn't quite conform to the laws of physics,however,they are journos so we've got to believe them"
.. it can because the telelever means the front end isn't being pushed because the 'forks' don't dive, the telelever shock takes 98% of the movement, meaning the tyre has to do less; plus the brakes are power and ABS assisted, and the bike is additionally helped slow down by the heavy turning engine and power zapping gear/shaft arrangement - so not only is the rider applying braking pressure faster (pas), but also with optimum power and confidence (abs/power-train) - fancy locking up a Gixer thou at a ton during max braking testing - no, doesn't fill me with any confidence either.

"As I asked before,if the BM system is really that good,why haven't race bikes got it?"
... because ABS works fantastically on 'road' bikes. i.e. in a straight line / emergency type situation. By contrast racers have to have lighter kit (abs is a heavy addition to a 'race' bike) and be able to partially brake right up to the apex of a bend as necessary - and non-pas/abs undoubtedly provides better fingertip feedback to those riding gods - which neither of us are, but if were, then BMW wouldn't need to invent and refine ABS for bikes natch :D

"It's not just a case of predicted stopping, but also the quickness excess speed can be lost, if a BM is quicker than the thou's at this, have the journos been feeding us rubbish about the thou's one-finger braking being enough?"
... Mick Doohan used four fingers for the front brake, and he wasn't that bad a rider as I understand it (ahem!) It's not the number of fingers that you use but the speed, control and pressure applied. If Mr journo can lock the front with one finger well woopee, I'm seriously unimpressed. Have you braked 'really' hard on a modern sports bike? I have on track days and what happens is the back wheel physically begins to lift off the ground and it begins to hop skip and jump about the place, which doesn't have you stopping particularly quickly (you just crap yourself as the hairpin approaches too fast); whereas the lardy arse GS is nice and planted giving full grip front 'and rear'. However, this weight bias doesn't help a 'race' bike steer, particularly under heavy braking.

There's always too many dependencies and influencing factors when it comes to bikes geometric variances and their affects on the bikes ability to brake and turn under control. Racers and road riders have much differing requirements to some extent, so it's probably innapropriatte to compare the two. We hear that superbikes are tuned production bikes, but the reality is we're talking a ten grand bike with a quarter of a million pounds of 'tuning' thrown at it. Production sports bikes are great, within their brief, and if you want your bike to act like a ZX10R, then buy one - they're cheaper than a 12GS.

The bottom line is that most of us will brake faster, most of the time, under most conditions on an ABS fitted bike. Even quicker than on a sports bike without it fitted ;-D Add the panic of braking for a child that's just run out from between two parked cars in the slashing rain on a dark winters late afternoon and there's simply no comparison of benefit to both rider and others.

Anyway if anyone disagrees, then fair play, it's just my personal 'view'; maybe it'll be worth waiting untl BMW produce a non ABS version, but then again if they thought that would be better than an ABS version then perhaps they'd of brought that out first and then applied a premium to the 'fools that want to pay extra' for it? Personally I'm not convinced BMW will begin to sell non ABS versions, I mean - what's the point? Food for thought! :D
 
Just read all thr stuff about ABS and wondered why you are better switching it off when you go off road. surely if you are slipping on mud etc having ABS helps?
 


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