Advice about rejecting 1250GSA

[TheStammeringBiker]

Hi all, I've commented a bit on the 1250 Recalls thread but I'm getting to the end of my tether now. I realise some may read this and be of the opinion, "just ignore the noise, ride it, it's under warranty and if it blows up they'll sort it". I totally get this mindset but at the moment with the problems I've had it doesn't sit right with me to accept that on such an expensive machine.

So a short timeline of where I'm at with it:

1. Purchased the bike (7th Dec 2019) with 685miles on from Marshal BMW Grimsby.
2. The day after I noticed a rattle/tap/ticking from LHS cylinder head.
3. Bike booked in with Williams BMW Manchester for 4th Jan with 816miles on.
4. Piston slap was diagnosed as well as gear backlash, engine replacement recommended by BMW.
5. Picked bike up 18th Jan and noise is still present, but even louder. Advised to run the engine in.
6. Bike returned to Williams for oil swap at 1267 miles and told that although they can hear the noise (again on LHS) they think it's normal and in some cases some "just sound like that". They started 2 other 1250's and neither sounded even remotely similar. Advised they couldn't investigate further.
7. Bike washed for first time since engine swap and a big chunk of the frame powdercoat had been chipped off on one of the engine mounts. Reported to Williams.
8. After various conversations with Marshal about rejecting the bike they asked me to book it back in with Williams.
9. Bike was collected by Williams 12th Feb.
10. 12th Feb Williams advised me that on the LHS cylinder that both the inlet and exhaust valve clearances were so far at the upper end of the tolerances they were borderline out of spec so new shims were installed. Also frame has been painted but you can still see the indent of the chip out of it.
11. Bike still exhibits a loud pronounced ticking/rattle from LHS which is unexplained and I'm told it's the decompression valve even though it's coming from further in towards the centre of the engine than the top of the head.
12. More conversations with Marshals who have been speaking with BMW UK who suggest they get one of their own guys to come out and inspect the bike.

Currently I'm waiting on a date for this to happen but they can only do week days and they would like me to be present. Unfortunately I cannot be there on a weekday so I'll be unable to talk to the guy himself.

I'm told that "if", he agrees that the engine isn't right, they will go down the rejection route. There was an inference that if he deems the bike to be healthy then they will not allow rejection, I'm currently waiting for someone to confirm my understanding of this comment.

I've got 3 friends all with the 1250 who have mileages exceeding 10,000 miles in some cases and none exhibit this noise. I feel almost silly for being so hung up on a noise that doesn't seem to affect performance but after the issues I've had my faith in the bike isn't exactly great.

I know noone can really tell me what I should do, but I'm curious what people think. As I said above I know some people will think I'm being melodramatic but for me this feels like I'm being fobbed off with a "oh they all do that" excuse.

Thanks

 

[JJH]

I’d give them one more chance to fix it properly. Don’t listen to what BMW say about rejection. They might not agree with you but it’s up to you to pressure them. If they can’t fix it they haven’t got much choice. JJH

 

[wileeeeeey]

Do you have it on finance? If so BMW FS might be able to force a rejection. Back in the paint chip days a lot of the engine swaps were owned outright and the a lot of the rejected bikes were on PCP.

 

[TheStammeringBiker]

I’d give them one more chance to fix it properly. Don’t listen to what BMW say about rejection. They might not agree with you but it’s up to you to pressure them. If they can’t fix it they haven’t got much choice. JJH

Thanks JJH!

 

[TheStammeringBiker]

Do you have it on finance? If so BMW FS might be able to force a rejection. Back in the paint chip days a lot of the engine swaps were owned outright and the a lot of the rejected bikes were on PCP.

Bike is on PCP yeah, I've already spoken to BMW FS who basically said they couldn't give a toss, and that they "just provide the finance for the bike" and directed me back to the retailer.

 

[malcopopolo]

You have alot of rights. PCP finance is just finance and the same rules apply.

The finance company is who u should be talking to about rejecting the bike imho.

You do not need to be there when bmw inspect.

I would write to the finance company and supplying dealer giving them one more chance to rectify. Then I would return the bike to the supplying dealer even if it meant you handing the keys back in an envelope.

It might be worth talking to trading standards.

At the end of the day both the dealer and finance company will resist in agreeing a rejection. It is in their interests.
Take some professional advice

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[TheStammeringBiker]

You have alot of rights. PCP finance is just finance and the same rules apply.

The finance company is who u should be talking to about rejecting the bike imho.

You do not need to be there when bmw inspect.

I would write to the finance company and supplying dealer giving them one more chance to rectify. Then I would return the bike to the supplying dealer even if it meant you handing the keys back in an envelope.

It might be worth talking to trading standards.

At the end of the day both the dealer and finance company will resist in agreeing a rejection. It is in their interests.
Take some professional advice

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Thanks mate, to be fair the dealer who sold me the bike seems perfectly happy to progress the rejection route, he also seems extremely keen on finding a resolution that doesn't end that way for me. I'll write to BMW FS about it and see what they say, the last conversation with them wasn't fruitful.

 

[spoonz]

I would see what the bmw tech says. He may well solve your problem for you and reject the bike.

No harm in investigating your options in the meantime in case though.

 

[RedRick Esq.]

Thanks mate, to be fair the dealer who sold me the bike seems perfectly happy to progress the rejection route, he also seems extremely keen on finding a resolution that doesn't end that way for me. I'll write to BMW FS about it and see what they say, the last conversation with them wasn't fruitful.

My experience with Marshalls is that they are genuinely helpful and the service manager i dealt with ( cant remember his name now) was just brilliant. He may not still be there of course as its been a while since i used them....

As for being there when the BMW bloke inspects the bike i would take a days holiday and insist on being there that way there can be no stitch ups and if you tell them about the cost to you to be there i am sure they will look kindly upon you as they do have a budget for stuff like that

My problems heated grips on the XR were all resolved very satisfactorily and i was sent out to dinner at their expense as i had traveled to and fro several times

 

[TheStammeringBiker]

My experience with Marshalls is that they are genuinely helpful and the service manager i dealt with ( cant remember his name now) was just brilliant. He may not still be there of course as its been a while since i used them....

As for being there when the BMW bloke inspects the bike i would take a days holiday and insist on being there that way there can be no stitch ups and if you tell them about the cost to you to be there i am sure they will look kindly upon you as they do have a budget for stuff like that

My problems heated grips on the XR were all resolved very satisfactorily and i was sent out to dinner at their expense as i had traveled to and fro several times

Dean Spencer is the sales manager at Marshals and to be fair to him he's been brilliant the whole way through this

I've been dealing with the Service Department at Williams as they've done all the work on the bike so far.

 

[Davel]

I rejected an R1200GS some years ago after almost 12 months of an unresolved issue.

It was well documented on here at the time.

Have to say that Ben was brilliant.


BMW Group
United Kingdom
Ben Perry
Customer Service Manager – BMW Motorrad UK
Customer Service
Summit ONE
Summit Avenue, Farnborough
Hampshire, GU14 0FB
Tel : +44 (0) 1252 920 000
Email: [email protected]
Web : http://www.bmw.co.uk

 

[TheStammeringBiker]

I rejected an R1200GS some years ago after almost 12 months of an unresolved issue.

It was well documented on here at the time.

Have to say that Ben was brilliant.


BMW Group
United Kingdom
Ben Perry
Customer Service Manager – BMW Motorrad UK
Customer Service
Summit ONE
Summit Avenue, Farnborough
Hampshire, GU14 0FB
Tel : +44 (0) 1252 920 000
Email: [email protected]
Web : http://www.bmw.co.uk

Apparently Ben is who Dean at Marshals have been speaking to, and it was him that suggested getting their guy out to look at it. Dean at Marshals seems to have alot of faith in Ben

 

[Nobby]

I rejected a Gsxr back in the 90s, I send two letters one to the dealer and one to the finance company laying out the fault with the bike,
this was after the dealer wanted to strip down my week old engine to sorted the noise out within the week a new bike was dropped off and the old one collected. I did quote some legal shit to them after seeking advise, don't give up.

 

[the woodster]

All the above seems like sound advice. Can I also suggest that you consider identifying an independent BMW mechanic and have them listen to/look at the bike. If they don't think it's right you may want to consider paying for a written report. Just keep this in your pocket in case it is not resolved to your satisfaction.

Dealers will rarely want you to be unhappy with the bikes as it reflects badly on them. And I don't think you are being unreasonable. I would be exactly the same.

I would agree with making sure that you are present when the bike is inspected. You want to know exactly what was said by all parties. I would consider recording this as well, just to ensure there is an accurate record of the inspection and comments made.

I feel for you mate. Good luck.

 

[Neil W]

Get in touch with your local Consumer Advice Bureau first and they will have an expert who will advise you regarding rejecting a vehicle and raise a case number for your case .
Full advice will include what you need to put in your communication to the Supplying Dealer and what options you have to give them.
From there if you go by the book and the dealer has failed to correct the issues then reject it, however, it may muddy the water sligjtly as you took the bike to a different dealer rather than the supplying one to try to make good the problems.
You will probably be advised to give the supplying dealer (with whom your initial sales contract was with ) the chance to fix the issue

 

[Tetley]

Check this out, I deal with caravan dealers and this is the legislation that they come up against all of the time when customers are unhappy.

https://www.moneyadviceservice.org....ur-car#problems-with-cars-bought-from-dealers


C

 

[Hairyweasel]

Don't feel silly in the slightest being hung up on a noise, when a mechanical item makes an abnormal noise its because something is wrong.
At the moment it might be a minor thing but noises tend to develop and what is minor today may be major tomorrow or even worse once the warranty has run out.

 

[stanley]

I realise that you have already had a replacement engine, but a quick question about the first one...
This bike had only covered 685 miles. Who was the first owner? Had it already been rejected by its former keeper?

Regarding William's... my 1200 made a dreadful racket from the left hand cylinder head. It was 100% the decompression mechanism. William's continually fobbed me off. I eventually suggested to them that I would wait for a busy Saturday and leave the bike ticking over outside their showroom entrance. I asked them what they thought potential customers might think of this bike making a very "non-BMW noise".
They made the decision to fix it asap. Also, William's always seem keen to blame BMW for "not allowing them to change things."

I think you may need to lean on them. Or Marshalls?

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[TheStammeringBiker]

Thanks all, I'm going to try and get the day off as annual leave but I've got to save as much as I can as my wife has been poorly and is needing ongoing procedures so could do without using this up.

I'll see what they come back with and take it from there. I'm at the point where I'm sick of the sight of the thing. I've ridden it only once for pleasure and it's spent over a month at the dealers so far.

 

[wessie]

It seems you have agreed to a 3rd party (the BMW GB technician) to inspect the bike. You need to allow due process and see what this person recommends.

Ultimately, the contract is between you and the selling dealer with the finance company also having liability. The BMW GB chap can only make recommendations on a way to proceed but he is not part of a formal arbitration process so the advice is not binding. BMW GB have no liability to you so any comments they make about your rights should be treated as biased towards the advantage of their dealer.

After the inspection, if the selling dealer does not proceed as you would like then seek advice from Citizens Advice. There's a letter template here, to reject a vehicle https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-ri...ecting-a-second-hand-car-bought-from-a-dealer
You may wish to adapt the last paragraph to say you feel you have given them ample opportunity to fix the problem. Seek advice, though, as I am not a lawyer.