Advice required please...

[mark2jag]

Just been offered a R1200GS Black, which has had a problem with the "Gudgeon pin"?????? coming adrift and wrecking a 600 mile old engine. Would this require a complete new engine or not, and would you buy it if it was reduced in price from one that had no problems at all?? Would it have affected the warranty at all, and if there is a new engine in it, which I assume would have a different engine number what would happen if it came to making a claim on the warranty. If I remember correctly this bike is a 60 plate or possibly a 10 plate. Missing my bike having sold it to pay for a venture in Cyprus, which then collapsed anyway...... Hey ho such is life I guess.... Answers on the back of a tenner to the usual address,lol

 

[brassmonkey001]

Gudgeon Pin. Good one.

 

[mark2jag]

Gudgeon Pin. Good one.

what????? have i been misled??? is someone taking the piss??? does such a thing exist????

I take it from the tone of your comment that someone is taking the piss?? Is it you perchance??? I'm not terribly technically minded so when someone who works for a reputable BMW dealer gives me that information I have no option but to believe him. So come on brassmonkey whats the story.... HAVE i BEEN MISLEAD?? IF I HAVE THEN SAY SO, THANKS,rather than intimating that what ive said is complete bollocks, or have I got it and you wrong.

 

[brassmonkey001]

what????? have i been misled??? is someone taking the piss??? does such a thing exist????

I take it from the tone of your comment that someone is taking the piss?? Is it you perchance??? I'm not terribly technically minded so when someone who works for a reputable BMW dealer gives me that information I have no option but to believe him. So come on brassmonkey whats the story.... HAVE i BEEN MISLEAD?? IF I HAVE THEN SAY SO, THANKS,rather than intimating that what ive said is complete bollocks, or have I got it and you wrong.

No, it's me taking the piss.

The Gudgeon pin is the pin that goes through your Con rod and piston.

So what's the story? Has it had a new engine or has it been repaired?
It depends on the level of damage really. I should think it has only damaged the bore and a new piston & cylinder should have sorted it.

I assume it was repaired under warranty and therefore your warranty rights should be unaffected.

 

[bowser]

gudgeon pin aka the wrist pin in the US its the small bar of metal that goes through the small end of the con rod and the walls of the piston joining the two together.
Cant imagine why somebody would make a silly comment, except in order to take the piss !!

Couldn't guess what the problem with it was not how much damage was done nor what was done to correct it, however if the problem has been fixed why worry?

 

[brassmonkey001]

I guess an incorrectly fitted, or even omitted gudgeon pin retaining clip. Over the course of 600 miles the pin has worked it's way across and scored the cylinder bore.
Or possibly an incorrectly fitted small end bearing causing lack of oil flow to the small end thus causing the pin to seize and therefore causing the piston skirt to damage the bore.

 

[mark2jag]

gudgeon pin aka the wrist pin in the US its the small bar of metal that goes through the small end of the con rod and the walls of the piston joining the two together.
Cant imagine why somebody would make a silly comment, except in order to take the piss !!

Couldn't guess what the problem with it was not how much damage was done nor what was done to correct it, however if the problem has been fixed why worry?

apparently a circlip went missing wrecking the engine. If it has just had a new barrel(s)and rings and piston (would it not be better to replace them both???)then apart from having to run it all in again, then all is fine and dandy, BUT if its had a new engine as would possibly seem to be the case then i'm curious as to what happens when it breaks and i have to use the warranty. would they look at the engine number and see that its different and then try to find a reason to not touch it??

Thank you ALL FOR YOUR ADVICE AND GENTLE P*SSTAKING..............
Mark

 

[brassmonkey001]

apparently a circlip went missing wrecking the engine. If it has just had a new barrel(s)and rings and piston (would it not be better to replace them both???)then apart from having to run it all in again, then all is fine and dandy,

Why replace both? The other side hasn't sustained any damage. The only thing is one side will have run in 600 miles earlier than the other which shouldn't really be a problem I would have thouhgt.

BUT if its had a new engine as would possibly seem to be the case then i'm curious as to what happens when it breaks and i have to use the warranty. would they look at the engine number and see that its different and then try to find a reason to not touch it??

Thank you ALL FOR YOUR ADVICE AND GENTLE P*SSTAKING..............
Mark

I do admire your acceptance of the foibles of 1200 ownership though.

 

[mark2jag]

Why replace both? The other side hasn't sustained any damage. The only thing is one side will have run in 600 miles earlier than the other which shouldn't really be a problem I would have thouhgt.



I do admire your acceptance of the foibles of 1200 ownership though.

Remember the optimist invented the aeroplane, the pessimist invented the parachute and the realist went out and bought an extended warranty!!!!

If you look at the number of people on here who comment when their bike breaks something then you would be of the opinion that they are inherenetly unrelaible, howevere there are LOTS AND LOTS of people on here who've never even had to claim on warranties, so i guess im just being careful, in case i do decide to shell out my hard won compensation and buy the bloody thing!!!.......

 

[brassmonkey001]

As I said, your warranty should be unaffected. BMW will have a record that this engine failed because of this problem and this is what remedial action was taken. If anything, they might give the full warranty term (3 years/3000 miles? I don't know. ) from when the engine was rebuilt/replaced.
Assuming the repair was carried out under warranty of course.

 

[bowser]

apparently a circlip went missing wrecking the engine. If it has just had a new barrel(s)and rings and piston (would it not be better to replace them both???)then apart from having to run it all in again, then all is fine and dandy, BUT if its had a new engine as would possibly seem to be the case then i'm curious as to what happens when it breaks and i have to use the warranty. would they look at the engine number and see that its different and then try to find a reason to not touch it??

Thank you ALL FOR YOUR ADVICE AND GENTLE P*SSTAKING..............
Mark

I would guess that if the engine was replaced then somthing broke off and went further into the engine and did the crank/big end/oil pump etc (any combination off) and a new engine was the cheaper option to striping and fixing, especialy if the engine came from BMW as a warrenty replacement. I had a camshaft bearing go and they repaired it, however with all the bills in and a four week loan of another bike to take on holiday it ended up costing more than a replacement engine !!!
If the engine has been changed it will all be on the service record of the vehicle which is maintained by BMW anyway so you wouldnt have a problem.

 

[trainman]

apparently a circlip went missing wrecking the engine. If it has just had a new barrel(s)and rings and piston (would it not be better to replace them both???)then apart from having to run it all in again, then all is fine and dandy, BUT if its had a new engine as would possibly seem to be the case then i'm curious as to what happens when it breaks and i have to use the warranty. would they look at the engine number and see that its different and then try to find a reason to not touch it??

Thank you ALL FOR YOUR ADVICE AND GENTLE P*SSTAKING..............
Mark

If it was repaired as opposed to new, I would want both pots done or at the very least stripped and inspected, the thought of various bits of metal floating around the engine when it blew up does not impress me.

 

[Deleted account 190920001]

the circlip is a small wire clip that if it came out would score the bore and then fall into the sump. The pin would score the bore a bit more but the amount of debri in the oil should easily be taken out by the filter. So given that information why on earth would you demand both pistons, barrels and heads be replaced? If any other damage was done then it would be to the crank which you are quite happy to accept! There is no reason what so ever to replace the other side. Even after many miles if a valve drops they still don't replace both sides and that causes far more damage.

To the OP, go and ask BMW what was done. As said before it will be recorded in the service history and they will be quite happy to supply you with the details.

 

[VAL. H.]

If it was repaired as opposed to new, I would want both pots done or at the very least stripped and inspected, the thought of various bits of metal floating around the engine when it blew up does not impress me.

Sounds very much like you don't really know what goes on with a gudgen pin, or indeed inside an engine.

As has been said already. If any broken bits have been recovered then there is no reason at all to replace any other internal parts.

It's technically a simple job to do (pull and replace the barrel, replace piston, gudgen pin, circlips. Drop the sump and inspect the crank/bigend for possible 'though unlikely' damage. Recover broken circlip bits and reassemble. Simples). However with these modern engines it could well be cheaper (for BMW dealers) to simply replace the whole engine 'cassette fashion'.

Only way to find out is to ask the dealer who did the job


Val.

 

[trainman]

Sounds very much like you don't really know what goes on with a gudgen pin, or indeed inside an engine.

As has been said already. If any broken bits have been recovered then there is no reason at all to replace any other internal parts.

It's technically a simple job to do (pull and replace the barrel, replace piston, gudgen pin, circlips. Drop the sump and inspect the crank/bigend for possible 'though unlikely' damage. Recover broken circlip bits and reassemble. Simples). However with these modern engines it could well be cheaper (for BMW dealers) to simply replace the whole engine 'cassette fashion'.

Only way to find out is to ask the dealer who did the job


Val.

equally simple to check the other side,

as i have seen it happen on another bike, if its someone else's cost I would insist, rather than risk

 

[cookie]

you do realise that rasher is now going mention this issue in every single one of his posts for ever more don't you?

 

[solidstate100]

Jeez if you are in this much doubt, just dont buy it - I doubt you will ever relax/be happy with it !!

 

[WindyChuffer]

mark2jag - if its been repaired at BMW dealer under warranty then you'll have nothing to worry about.

That said, what I would do is ask for a print out of all the warranty work performed on the bike, including list of parts etc., then at least you'll know the full story. This is a reasonable question and the dealer should be more than happy to provide it. Either way, share the findings on here...