AF-XIED for a standard bike?

[oldnfat]

Much like the rest....I have had the AF units on my stock TC for about 6k and now wouldn't be without them. I have also had a couple of remaps from Geoff on both a single cam and TC.

The Remap in my view gives a bit more punch but the AF units do give a much smoother ride and go some way to getting rid of the 4500rpm emissions hole.....I would also say there is more low down grunt than stock. I have also noticed much less discolouration of the headers and less oil use....no doubt due to cooler running.

Fell in love with the bike all over again....be warned however, it does take a few tankful for the bikes trims to have been comprehensively reset.

Overall.....I would go for the AF units over Decat headers, posh end cans and probably the remap (based on smoothness and ability to reuse). In terms of servicing through BMW...no problems although I am out of warranty so no experience here.

 

[Bendy toy]

Use Xieds on my standard single cam. Like someone else said they made it the bike it should've been. Easy to fit/remove. Got mine from beemer boneyard, very helpful people who answer e mails very quickly. Had them posted but luckily they weren't stopped at customs and ended up in my letterbox.

Not noticed more outright power, just a noticeable amount of low down grunt. Immediate pick up from low revs and just generally a lot smoother.

I got mine to improve the pick up and like yourself I was concerned about the exhaust valves, mainly for future mods I intend to carry out.

It interesting what you say about outright power. Ive not had mine dyno'd with the PC-V but it certainly feels a lot more powerful. Mid range I pull a higher gear even for quick overtakes. In fact I'm obliged most of the time to short shift because it takes off faster than people expect (including me sometimes). Its all too easy to run into problems because people don't expect you to arrive so quickly. That applies to any big bike but the GS with PC-V really shows how the OEM map strangles the bike. It's quick to 5000rpm but OMG quick above that. I'm sure the Akraprovic system is part of the story but that top end can gets seriously addictive. Thankfully for my licence, most of the roads I use don't allow such shenanigans.

Brother has a standard setup with a Remus header and Hexacone exhaust. His bike feels strangled everywhere and above 5000 rpm has to be thrashed to make it get a move on. Stop thinking "Powaar" for a moment and it will soon be below 5K to where it's more comfortable. Overtakes I hardly need to think about just don't get done on his bike.

 

[MattW]

Much like the rest....I have had the AF units on my stock TC for about 6k and now wouldn't be without them. I have also had a couple of remaps from Geoff on both a single cam and TC.

The Remap in my view gives a bit more punch but the AF units do give a much smoother ride and go some way to getting rid of the 4500rpm emissions hole.....I would also say there is more low down grunt than stock. I have also noticed much less discolouration of the headers and less oil use....no doubt due to cooler running.

Fell in love with the bike all over again....be warned however, it does take a few tankful for the bikes trims to have been comprehensively reset.

Overall.....I would go for the AF units over Decat headers, posh end cans and probably the remap (based on smoothness and ability to reuse). In terms of servicing through BMW...no problems although I am out of warranty so no experience here.

Great to hear - thanks.

 

[Andy63]

+1 for Hilltop I'd go that way every time

 

[Mistacat]

With Living in Jersey you could go and knock on the door of Jersey Harley Davidson as they have been the distributors of XIED units for Harleys for many years.
Would be nice if they could import and distribute the BMW units as well.

 

[oldnfat]

+1 for Hilltop I'd go that way every time

Why...what didn't you like about the AF units?

 

[Rockred]

I have just fitted them to my WC, its early days yet, but the early signs are looking good. Has any bods fitted them to their WC and if so what setting are you running them on, and do you remove them for a dealer service ?

Thanks in advance. Ian.

 

[Andy63]

Why...what didn't you like about the AF units?

Had mine hilltop'd a couple of years ago cost me £300 bike felt so much better afterwards I was so glad I had it done.

Never used AF so cant compare but for the difference in price may as well take it to Hilltop.

 

[Andy63]

With Living in Jersey you could go and knock on the door of Jersey Harley Davidson as they have been the distributors of XIED units for Harleys for many years.
Would be nice if they could import and distribute the BMW units as well.

Bikers (Jersey Harley Davison) I rarely go in there its all Harleys and KTM!

Didn't know they distributed XIED why not give them a call see if they are willing to import the BMW units?

 

[Roger 04 RT]

Matt, To your initial question, is there any point in lambda-shifting a bog standard bike, the answer is a strong: yes. When I did the initial research on lambda-shifting my R1150RT it was because it was stock but I felt the overall fueling was anemic. My first go was to shift lambda a mere 4% richer and I was quite pleasantly surprised by the improvement. Over the five years I've been riding and logging, I've settled on lambda=0.92, which is 8% richer. I give up one or two MPGs but feel I'm riding the bike that BMW's engineers would have delivered if they could.

Regarding the question, can the af-XIED adapt to changes you make to the bike, the answer is that together with the BMSK, it can. And although the af-XIED is only a small device, it does signal acquisition, processing and conversion back to an analog signal.

If you set the device for example to ~6% richer, that is what it will do, no matter your changes. However, let's say you changed your bike to somehow get more air into the cylinder. In that case as long as you got more air into part of the Closed Loop area of the map (which seems to be more than half the fuel map area), the BMSK will learn about it an create long term trims that add fuel everywhere.

No Matt "it won't adapt" as its a dumb device it just simply takes the signal from the sensor, shifts that sensor value by a fixed amount you set and then transmits that adjsuted value back to the ECU , but you can adjust it via the dial. Being pedantic I know.

If you set it to say setting 6....this may correspond to an actual AFR of say 13.8, if you add a zorst etc the AFR may increase to 14.5, Whether the hex head has adaptive fuelling is another debate as you say but is pertinent as if it does the ECU will adapt to the new mods by increasing the injector pulse width to inject more fuel to compensate for the increase in air through put to restore the AFR to what it thinks is the stock setting from being too lean. If it doesnt then you will need to take the XIED a notch or two richer to compensate.
Either way it's either a do nothing or a tweek with a screw driver on the dials.

IMHO, I really can't see the point of having an OEM ecu with two Lambda's sensors and not having adaptive fuelling, unless the AFR is logged and is either reviewed by the service technicans for adjustment or is fed back to the factory for them to release updated maps.

They did it on the 1150 so I really can't see them dropping that feature with emission regs tightening...but thats just my opinion.

 

[Roger 04 RT]

With Living in Jersey you could go and knock on the door of Jersey Harley Davidson as they have been the distributors of XIED units for Harleys for many years.
Would be nice if they could import and distribute the BMW units as well.

Here's what I just learned from Nightrider, I hope it helps. They might not feel qualified to support the product but we could set up a self-help support forum here.

"They might try to talk with Geoff Habin (the GM?) +44 (0)1524 855601 directly to see if he might be interested in selling the BMW parts, but I suspect the brands they represent keep them busy.

A few calls to Geoff from EU customers for the BMW product might change his mind."

 

[MattW]

Thanks Roger - very helpful.

Matt, To your initial question, is there any point in lambda-shifting a bog standard bike, the answer is a strong: yes. When I did the initial research on lambda-shifting my R1150RT it was because it was stock but I felt the overall fueling was anemic. My first go was to shift lambda a mere 4% richer and I was quite pleasantly surprised by the improvement. Over the five years I've been riding and logging, I've settled on lambda=0.92, which is 8% richer. I give up one or two MPGs but feel I'm riding the bike that BMW's engineers would have delivered if they could.

Regarding the question, can the af-XIED adapt to changes you make to the bike, the answer is that together with the BMSK, it can. And although the af-XIED is only a small device, it does signal acquisition, processing and conversion back to an analog signal.

If you set the device for example to ~6% richer, that is what it will do, no matter your changes. However, let's say you changed your bike to somehow get more air into the cylinder. In that case as long as you got more air into part of the Closed Loop area of the map (which seems to be more than half the fuel map area), the BMSK will learn about it an create long term trims that add fuel everywhere.

 

[Bendy toy]

Ideally, more fuel should be added to the OEM mapped flat spots to even out the areas of rough running.
Does the AF do this? Or does the enrichment work equally across the whole rev range?


Sent somehow.

 

[Deleted account 200123001]

Does the AF do this? Or does the enrichment work equally across the whole rev range?

In very simple terms, the xied "distorts" the signal from the lambda sensor and makes the ECU think that the mixture is leaner than it actually is, so it applies more fuel. Depending on how the ECU is programmed will vary how that information is is utilised, but for the purposes of this high level discussion you could say that it broadly richens across the RPM and and throttle position spectrum.

On the 1150 the mixture adapation worked in around 100-150 miles so the effects are quite quickly noted.

 

[MWH]

Bendy, I didn't notice more outright power as my previous/being rebuilt steed is a mildly tuned gsxr11 00 so it's all relative. I'm guessing my single cam has less power then the TC in the first place so probably not as noticeable.

I tend not to wring it's neck as I got it to slow me down a bit! I tend to ride with my wife and she's more a bimbler.

 

[Bendy toy]

I don't thrash mine and very rarely rev it above 6000 (there's simply no need) but if I'm spending £300 I want the fuelling fully sorted from tick over to flat out. The Power Commander for all its imperfections has filled the 4000-5000 flat spot. It's not of course done anything about the vibration at the same revs.

Sent somehow.

 

[comberjohn]

Bendy, what exactly do you want to know about the AF-XiED units before you buy a pair?
Plenty of us have told you how good they are, one person has told about his experiences compared with a Hilltop re map, even the unit developer has explained all of your questions in great detail.
Nobody has had any issues with them over tens of thousands of miles of use and no one has blown up their engine by using them. They simply work.
The biggest sticking point for most of us has been the cost. But, bearing in mind that they will have a resale value compared to a re map, I feel that they're better value overall as well as a more elegant solution.
As I've said before, if I could have kept the water out of the connectors on my PCV, I would probably still be running it.
Frankly, I think I would be hard pushed to notice a difference in performance between mine with the AF-XiED's and the PCV. If I had to split hairs, I might feel that the PCV had a slight advantage. Problem is, while you notice it immediately with a PCV, the AF-XiED's need time to adapt, so it is difficult to compare directly.
If I were in your position, I would get off the pot, get the lend of a laptop, load on the standard European map and see if it cures the vibes and keep the £300 in my pocket.
At the moment you've no baseline to work from as you don't know what your fuel map is.
If you still have that harsh vibration with the standard European mapping installed, there's another issue and I'm not convinced a re map or AF-XiED's are going to cure it.

 

[Tractors are go]

Once it has been decatted and a decent end can and properly set up; there is actually a benefit to going north of 7k.

Horse's for course. Better, smoother running and extra power too

Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk

 

[Bendy toy]

Once it has been decatted and a decent end can and properly set up; there is actually a benefit to going north of 7k.

Horse's for course. Better, smoother running and extra power too

Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk

Dead right I don't think mine has gone above 6K more than a handful of times. Most of the time it never goes over 5K revs.

I'm 99% sure my vibration issue is mechanical. The bike has had all sorts of changes (throttle balancing etc etc) yet the vibration never changes and it's worst at the 4K to 5K flat spot. The PCV map solves the flat spot for power but vibration is just the same. In fact it's worse because the horrible flat spot now makes good usable power. But that's not the PCV's fault.
My only concern with the AF is how can it solve flat spots programmed into the OEM map? It can globally shift the fuel mixture but there will still be flat(er) spots. The worst of which is slap bang on the rev range any long distance ride.
The AF has merit because I don't want the time and hassle of a trip to Hilltop. In the meantime I am sticking with the PCV.


Sent somehow.

 

[oldnfat]

Dead right I don't think mine has gone above 6K more than a handful of times. Most of the time it never goes over 5K revs.

I'm 99% sure my vibration issue is mechanical. The bike has had all sorts of changes (throttle balancing etc etc) yet the vibration never changes and it's worst at the 4K to 5K flat spot. The PCV map solves the flat spot for power but vibration is just the same. In fact it's worse because the horrible flat spot now makes good usable power. But that's not the PCV's fault.
My only concern with the AF is how can it solve flat spots programmed into the OEM map? It can globally shift the fuel mixture but there will still be flat(er) spots. The worst of which is slap bang on the rev range any long distance ride.
The AF has merit because I don't want the time and hassle of a trip to Hilltop. In the meantime I am sticking with the PCV.


Sent somehow.

Bendy, all I can say re the flat spot is that I don't notice it any more....went out for a blast just now to see if I could find it and I can't....just smooth power and grunt. Past 6000rpm it does get rougher but I am rarely staying there....just hard balls out acceleration.

I have to say that the decat headers caused quite a bit more vibration which is one of the reasons for going back to stock....this plus the AF units makes for a great bike....wish you were a bit closer so you could have a go on mine just for calibration as my smooth may be your rough....so to speak.

If it helps...happy to meet half way somewhere....good excuse for a blast down the A30.

Cheers