Akrapovic headers verses de-cat standard headers

[Old Wobbly]

So I removed my '13 GSA headers to replace with some Akrapovic headers as I've already fitted the Akrapovic Ti silencer and removed the exhaust valve - only to find that they are nowhere near the weight I thought they would be and despite the cat itself seem open enough to match the can.

I'm now thinking that I'll simply remove the cat' and then go for my Hilltop re-map, but I'm wondering what the benefit would be of the Akrapovic headers over the de-cat' BMW ones, but only with the re-map?

From what I read here the Hilltop re-map is the real winner and I will of course give Geoff at Hilltop a call tomorrow, but I was hoping someone here may have the BMW de-cat' headers/Akra' (or similar) can with the exhaust valve removed setup and the hilltop re-map and offer words of experience.

If I can avoid spending £500 on the headers then great, also I'll hold off getting the long drill bits out and attacking the cat'..

Thanks

 

[Jon P]

Forgive me, but - how fast do you want to go? When is enough enough? I'll probably get shot down in flames but BMs (to me) have always been about the ride, in comfort, with your pillion, your luggage and your destination over the hill somewhere - the performance was always just right, sensible grunt without having to keep changing gear and with good, solid handling. We are often quicker than 'other' bikes because of miles of experience.......am I just getting old? How about spending the cash on a trip? Sorry for the ramble.......just my thoughts.

 

[Sgt Bilco]

Not sure what youy are after here but this is my interpretation.

If you are just wanting to decat your headers and are prepared to remove it from the standard one then that is the cheapest way. Why give away £500 when doing it yourself will have the same effect?. The Akra's will do nothing more or less than you removing the CAT and weldng your pipe back together.

Saying that, you might want to speak with Geoff first to see if it's worth removing the CAT if you are having a remap. I'm pretty certain he will tell you not to bother

 

[Schtum]

The Akra's will do nothing more or less than you removing the CAT and weldng your pipe back together.

I suspect that's not entirely true. If you remove the cat matrix from a standard set of pipes, then you're going to leave an empty collector box. That's going to lead to a drop in gas speed and a possible loss of torque at low revs which will affect bottom end pick up. Now whether or not your average GS rider is going to be able to feel the difference while he's being seduced by the extra racket his exhaust is making might be another thing entirely.

 

[Deleted account 190920001]

If you know a good welder then gut the stock headers and save the money. It takes a bit of time to gut it out but worth it to save the money. There will be very little if any difference between the gutted headers and the akro or remus ones

 

[Old Wobbly]

Forgive me, but - how fast do you want to go? When is enough enough? I'll probably get shot down in flames but BMs (to me) have always been about the ride, in comfort, with your pillion, your luggage and your destination over the hill somewhere - the performance was always just right, sensible grunt without having to keep changing gear and with good, solid handling. We are often quicker than 'other' bikes because of miles of experience.......am I just getting old? How about spending the cash on a trip? Sorry for the ramble.......just my thoughts.

You have a point.

I have had my last two 2.0 Tdi Audi diesels re-mapped and the difference is quite staggering - simply better everywhere.

The GSA as it comes rides great, but it does feel a bit wheezy. For sure the standard bike is good, but for a few £'s if the bike can simply be more rideable and quicker then why wouldn't you? I'm sure that the standard map can be improved upon.

 

[Old Wobbly]

Not sure what youy are after here but this is my interpretation.

If you are just wanting to decat your headers and are prepared to remove it from the standard one then that is the cheapest way. Why give away £500 when doing it yourself will have the same effect?. The Akra's will do nothing more or less than you removing the CAT and weldng your pipe back together.

Saying that, you might want to speak with Geoff first to see if it's worth removing the CAT if you are having a remap. I'm pretty certain he will tell you not to bother

I'm after what the bike can give.

I'll call Geoff tomorrow. This is also my opinion but I'd just drill and chip away at the cat - no cutting and welding!

 

[Old Wobbly]

I suspect that's not entirely true. If you remove the cat matrix from a standard set of pipes, then you're going to leave an empty collector box. That's going to lead to a drop in gas speed and a possible loss of torque at low revs which will affect bottom end pick up. Now whether or not your average GS rider is going to be able to feel the difference while he's being seduced by the extra racket his exhaust is making might be another thing entirely.

Good point - I'll check it with someone that knows more than I do about it and let you know!

 

[Old Wobbly]

If you know a good welder then gut the stock headers and save the money. It takes a bit of time to gut it out but worth it to save the money. There will be very little if any difference between the gutted headers and the akro or remus ones

This would be the cheap and easy option!

 

[Giles]

I spoke with Geoff about decatting when I had my GSA done a few years ago. His take on it was that if your bike is remapped, decatting will do little more to boost performance, but will improve MPG.

Remapping your bike is not about 'performance' as such, it's about a delightfully crisp throttle that fuels your bike like a surgeons scalpel. You won't go 'faster' rolleyes but your throttle will now be an absolute delight to use.

 

[ghost-rider]

Aint knockin geoff, hes a top bloke, but how he can say decatting will give "little more power" is beyond me!, ive decatted all my 1200's , and the difference is just like some one pullin the cork out of it! Ok on paper maybe, figure wise it mite not make a mahoosive difference, but power wise its black and white, the bike becomes so much more lively!! And nicer to ride.

As for spendin 500 notes on akra headers, fook that, give keihan a ring, so much nicer quality in my oppinion, and a lot cheaper!

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[Old Wobbly]

Aint knockin geoff, hes a top bloke, but how he can say decatting will give "little more power" is beyond me!, ive decatted all my 1200's , and the difference is just like some one pullin the cork out of it! Ok on paper maybe, figure wise it mite not make a mahoosive difference, but power wise its black and white, the bike becomes so much more lively!! And nicer to ride.

As for spendin 500 notes on akra headers, fook that, give keihan a ring, so much nicer quality in my oppinion, and a lot cheaper!

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Thanks Ghost Rider as I've never heard of them but looking at their website I've missed a trick - good shout!

 

[ghost-rider]

No probs mate, ive been running a set for the last year, and ive just swapped em over to me new rt, ive been really pleased with em, the fit is bang on, really nice bends and the welds are spot on, and also it comes with the hanger bracket to fit to the original bracket under your gear box, but you wont need to use it, once there bolted on at the heads there rock solid! And in my oppinion it gives a neater look under neath, you cant go wrong mate!, I know youve been on about guttin your cat, but if youve got the money dont bother, the standard headers are just not an equal shape anywhere, with proper headers you get the same diameter rite the way thru, proper job!

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[Wilsdorf]

Aint knockin geoff, hes a top bloke, but how he can say decatting will give "little more power" is beyond me!, ive decatted all my 1200's , and the difference is just like some one pullin the cork out of it! Ok on paper maybe, figure wise it mite not make a mahoosive difference, but power wise its black and white, the bike becomes so much more lively!! And nicer to ride.

As for spendin 500 notes on akra headers, fook that, give keihan a ring, so much nicer quality in my oppinion, and a lot cheaper!

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Decat headers will probably make the BIGGEST difference for most people. I found the remap made little to no difference in overall power (apart from the dyno maps) - whereas a full pipe and power commander made quite noticeable differences, ymmv. I will say that, anyone that thinks you can get 25bhp more from the boxer engine with a simple remap and no engine mods is fooling themselves - take a look on the german tuning sites for the level of mods thrown at the engines to get an extra 10-15bhp.

People quoting remaps for turbo diesel cars, compared to a non-turbo twin cylinder bike are simply confusing matters.

I'd recommend a full exhaust system, or your choice of front and rear, and a either a power commander (or remap to suit, if that's what you like). A used power commander might cost you £100-£150, and you can sell it any time you want or use it on any compatible R1200 bike.

Either way, it is a lot of a cash to add around 5-10bhp, but in my personal opinion, you will notice the difference a full decat pipe makes in side by side against a standard bike - that is not something I can say about a standard remapped bike against a standard bike.

 

[ghost-rider]

Decat headers will probably make the BIGGEST difference for most people. I found the remap made little to no difference in overall power (apart from the dyno maps) - whereas a full pipe and power commander made quite noticeable differences, ymmv. I will say that, anyone that thinks you can get 25bhp more from the boxer engine with a simple remap and no engine mods is fooling themselves - take a look on the german tuning sites for the level of mods thrown at the engines to get an extra 10-15bhp.

People quoting remaps for turbo diesel cars, compared to a non-turbo twin cylinder bike are simply confusing matters.

I'd recommend a full exhaust system, or your choice of front and rear, and a either a power commander (or remap to suit, if that's what you like). A used power commander might cost you £100-£150, and you can sell it any time you want or use it on any compatible R1200 bike.

Either way, it is a lot of a cash to add around 5-10bhp, but in my personal opinion, you will notice the difference a full decat pipe makes in side by side against a standard bike - that is not something I can say about a standard remapped bike against a standard bike.

Agree with this!

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[2 wheel humvee]

Aint knockin geoff, hes a top bloke, but how he can say decatting will give "little more power" is beyond me!, ive decatted all my 1200's , and the difference is just like some one pullin the cork out of it! Ok on paper maybe, figure wise it mite not make a mahoosive difference, but power wise its black and white, the bike becomes so much more lively!! And nicer to ride.

As for spendin 500 notes on akra headers, fook that, give keihan a ring, so much nicer quality in my oppinion, and a lot cheaper!

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Not knocking Keihan but really? You think they are better quality than Akrapovic headers? Are you on drugs?

 

[ghost-rider]

Akras are nice, but do you really need springs evrywhere, and to be fare they dont look that well finished, look a bit like scaffold pipes! But its each to there own, I prefer the classy neat finish, it comes down to personal choice, there both good in there own way as far as looks are concerned, ultimatly they both do the same job.

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[n0ct0]

http://www.r1200gs.info/forum/2-gen...r1200gs-full-akro-system-power-commander.html

I read the above before I went with Akra headers and a PCV.

 

[Sgt Bilco]

Not knocking Keihan but really? You think they are better quality than Akrapovic headers? Are you on drugs?

Yes Steve, they are at least as good as Akrapovic. They are made in Redditch from high grade stainless and hand welded by a chap called Steve so how can they not be

Akra are top notch for sure but you pay a certain percentage for the name and their racing stuff which are works of art.

 

[2 wheel humvee]

Yes Steve, they are at least as good as Akrapovic. They are made in Redditch from high grade stainless and hand welded by a chap called Steve so how can they not be

Akra are top notch for sure but you pay a certain percentage for the name and their racing stuff which are works of art.

He he
I've tried the rest so for my current bike I thought I'd try the best, the fit and finish is the best I've seen, yes they cost more but maybe they will also be worth more if/when the time comes to re-fit the std headers if/when trade in time comes, in the meantime the Akra's finish is holding up well, they are performing well and sound great, nice big pic so you can see the quality of the welds.........forgot to include the rubber sleeved stainless springs in this shot but can take another for Ghost Rider