Alpina GSA Wheels

buncobooth

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Personally I think they are the dog's bits but near enough £2000 for the alloy versions is well out of my price range.

They have brass nipples with O rings so rim corrosion should be less of an issue. Can't say about the hubs galvanic corrosion will always be something to watch out for.

They are easy for ordinary wheel builders to rebuild.

BTW, I would be interested to ask about tyre to swing arm clearance for the wider rear rim. 180 tyres are nice but the offset might put the wheels out of line. It might need an RT swing arm to get the job done.
 
Bendy toy said:
BTW, I would be interested to ask about tyre to swing arm clearance for the wider rear rim. 180 tyres are nice but the offset might put the wheels out of line. It might need an RT swing arm to get the job done.
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I wouldn't get hung-up on the offset bm used to run offset on the old stuff, and having run offset wheels on hexhead for several years it's that marginal you cannot tell, even if you take hands off the bars it still tracks perfectly.

I ran both 5.5 rim 180 tyre and 6.0 rim 190 tyre on several hexheads and clearance was fine, only issue when running 190 tyre is you have to trim 5mm off the right side centre stand foot.
 
I am assuming that they are designed to take the same size rear tyre even though the rim is slightly wider. As for easy to rebuild, I think the problem is that they use an unusual spoke/nipple which are not easy to get. The other problem I have heard of is that they don't use stainless spokes, so they have a tendency to rust/corrode.
 
The BMW spokes are odd to say the least and about £120 a set (IIRC). Very few wheel builders will touch them.
The Italian wheels have sealed spoke nipples (allowing tubeless tyres) with zinc plated spokes to avoid the galvanic problems.
The issue with stainless spokes (as used by BMW) is galvanic corrosion eating into the aluminium hub. These metals are pretty much poles apart on the galvanic scale so corrosion will happen.
Maybe copper plating the spokes at the hub ends would help. Copper is 1/2 way between stainless and aluminium.
 
I have GS five spoke alloys on my Adventure. Painted gloss black they look pretty cool and perfect for winter. This year I didn't bother swapping back to the wire spokes.

GSA wire wheel stainless spokes will be pristine BUT the aluminium hub (the expensive bit) corrodes. Google "galvanic scale". Metals the farthest apart will react the worst with those at the top (aluminium end) being oxidised.

In the BMW hub, the aluminium oxide jams the spoke flange end. If you are rebuilding, the old spokes have to be chopped off and knocked out with a pin punch. TBH BMW made a schoolboy mistake. Getting the spoke ends copper plated would probably help.

Zinc and aluminium are adjacent on the galvanic scale (no corrosion) and carbon steel is nearby so steel/aluminium has minimal reaction. Ideally zinc plated spokes should be painted to protect the galvanising layer (same as car bodies are). Alpina spokes are coloured so I guess are painted.
 
Davy F said:
Well that's that then.....nothing like hearing something and accepting it as fact. :augie
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I emailed Alpina about the spokes and they confirmed they are not stainless (so that is a fact):

"The spokes are high strength carbon steel - zinc / nickel coated"

The tendency to rust comment came from Doug Richardson who seems to be the world's leading expert on wheel building (particularly BMW GSA Wheels) so I am happy to take that as a fact too. No intimation that they all to that, but he has seen some that have !
 
Stainless spokes DO NOT RUST they are stainless. But stainless reacts badly with aluminium alloy in corrosive environments. The aluminium is corroded. The stainless is untouched.

Bike wheels with stainless spokes pulled into aluminium hubs and rims run on salty wet roads for 1/2 of the year. then we wonder why the hubs look shite after one winter. ACF-50 cannot get between the spokes and hub spoke holes so corrosion is inevitable. Powder coating is pointless because the holes have to be cleaned out before spokes are fitted so it's still metal to metal.

Unless we have a wet march, the salt is still about in spring ready to chew into your dry stored wheels.
 
Bendy toy said:
Stainless spokes DO NOT RUST they are stainless. But stainless reacts badly with aluminium alloy in corrosive environments. The aluminium is corroded. The stainless is untouched.

Bike wheels with stainless spokes pulled into aluminium hubs and rims run on salty wet roads for 1/2 of the year. then we wonder why the hubs look shite after one winter. ACF-50 cannot get between the spokes and hub spoke holes so corrosion is inevitable. Powder coating is pointless because the holes have to be cleaned out before spokes are fitted so it's still metal to metal.

Unless we have a wet march, the salt is still about in spring ready to chew into your dry stored wheels.
Click to expand...

So with the BMW wheels it sounds like there is less chance of rust on the spokes themselves but more chance on the spoke/rim junction corroding and affecting the hub. Not sure which is better. I think the Moto Guzzi Stelvio also uses these Alpina wheels, need to try and find a few and take a good look at the wheels !
 
Corroding the hub is very bad news. It's expensive to replace and a rebuild with new spokes won't solve the problem. Corroded spokes are annoying but they "can" be painted.
 
Hi guys , BMW spokes are now stainless steel and we have a 10% discount offer on

Any questions contact me through the website please
 
My 1976 Suzuki GT 750 (UK bike not an unsalted import) is just now showing signs of rust on the front spokes. The chrome rim has fared less well so the wheel is being rebuilt. I will be using zinc plated carbon steel spokes.
 
Bendy toy said:
Corroding the hub is very bad news. It's expensive to replace and a rebuild with new spokes won't solve the problem. Corroded spokes are annoying but they "can" be painted.
Click to expand...

You should go into production wheel building, obviously you know more about it than the wheel builders.
 
Bobbin-Man said:
You should go into production wheel building, obviously you know more about it than the wheel builders.
Click to expand...

Galvanic corrosion is a costly fact of life. Stainless and aluminium should not be used together in corrosive environments. Ask any wheel builder and they will agree the point. BMW cross spoke wheels never have the spokes reused because they are almost impossible to remove from the corroded spoke holes. They have to be cut off and hammered out.

Stainless spokes look smarter than zinc plated. The pay-off is a high potential for damage to the alloy hub. Copper plating the spoke ends might help maybe a corrosion expert can answer that one.
 
Bendy toy said:
Galvanic corrosion is a costly fact of life. Stainless and aluminium should not be used together in corrosive environments. Ask any wheel builder and they will agree the point. BMW cross spoke wheels never have the spokes reused because they are almost impossible to remove from the corroded spoke holes. They have to be cut off and hammered out.

Stainless spokes look smarter than zinc plated. The pay-off is a high potential for damage to the alloy hub. Copper plating the spoke ends might help maybe a corrosion expert can answer that one.
Click to expand...

Does that mean Alpina changing to stainless spokes is a bad thing or the fact that the spokes have some rubber sealing between them and the rim resolve this problem ?
 
buncobooth said:
Does that mean Alpina changing to stainless spokes is a bad thing or the fact that the spokes have some rubber sealing between them and the rim resolve this problem ?
Click to expand...

The traditional spoke with a hooked end has less metal contact between spoke and hub. Brass ferrules in rim and hub will help avoid problems.

The zinc is sacrificial so zinc plated spokes will eventually rust, but only when the zinc has depleted. Stainless wont corrode, but any aluminium in contact is sacrificed. Aluminium is often used for galvanic protection.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galvanic_anode.

Stainless steel is not good stuff to have around when part of your structure is aluminium. Titanium is even worse.

galvanic%20series%20noble%20metals.jpg
 
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