alternator - how to check - Cali 3

[Ogmios]

With apologies to Dr Farkoff ( i did try, honest i did - but even Guzziology didn't enlighten me in the end )

ANYhow,
I'm trying to eliminate all causes of low battery power / low charge.
(The battery may be suspect - i am trying to get to the local battery shop that will test it for me on the spot - but it's always closed by the time i get out of work. )
ANYhow,
simple question (you'd think ) how do i test the alternator output?
I understand you take these wires what come off the stator and then ......
~~~
Thanks in advance.
p.s; Guzziology refers to brushes - my alternator aint got no brushes. WTF?
p.p.s; you can see in the pic that the red wire was previously removed and the connection redone and shrink wrapped. Cant remember why - but it had melted the plastic connector - this was years ago - worked fine since. doubt it has any bearing on the problem.

 

[ahutcheon]

Long ago I had a Guzzi that didn't charge. The alternator was fine, but there was barely 12v at the battery with the lights on. The rest was voltage drop between the charging circuit and the battery/loads with a decent current draw (the limpid romantic glow of the headlamp). Mind you, that bike had been part rewired by a previous owner using three core mains flex. Anyway, I was enlightened when I measured the voltage between regulator output and battery positive, two points that are in theory at the same potential.

 

[cookie]

Put a multimeter across the battery with the engine running at 2/3000 revs. It should read about 13.5v. If it reads the same as with the engine off, say 12ish, you have a problem.

 

[r100gser]

alternator tests

Hi these two links should sort you out


http://www.guzzista.com/ClassicGuzziManuals/SquadraGuzzistaSportiDaytonaCentauro.pdf - from page 163



http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzitech.dk/pdf/charging-around-the-circuit-john-noble.pdf

 

[Ogmios]

Thanks for the replies

Loved this;

the limpid romantic glow of the headlamp

i can visualise that exact shade of yellow!
Now,
them links - 1st is too new for my yoke - but the "old tractor" one seems ideal - just need to get time to read it.

multimeter across battery;
done a lot of this lately and i'm still confused!
not trusting the battery, i keep a multimeter in the topbox and taken readings to see what i can learn.
E.G: Come into work with a Freshly charged battery monday morning. check volts just before heading home. i get approx 12.8v.
check battery again, next morning - it's about 12.75.
next evening - about 12.7. next day - about 12.65.
My commute is only 3 miles each way, Bikes hardly warmed up.
But as you see - the battery volts only ever head down.
(Dr. Farkoff reckons it's just not a Bike to commute on / he's probably right / but i cant accept this and just keep riding the thing )

Yesterday, again with freshly charged battery, i started the Bike and had the meter set up to read.
Now we get to see a classic Italian Bike with resident electrical gremlin, in full hissy fit mode
... you see, this Bike has for as long as i've had it (14 years and 60+k miles) had a weird and untraceable problem - it randomly drops on to one cylinder and runs quite well as a 500c.c single.
Yes i HAVE checked / changed plugs, plug caps, HT leads, coils, low tension side of the wiring and even changed the entire ignition system. Twice!
So,
with a 500 single at 3k RPM - the meter reading was anything from 13.5 to 15+volts .... WTF?!

Conclusion, for now.
i gave up - took the plug cap off the plug and balanced it on the tip of the plug (making the spark jump the gap always gets it back onto two cylinders - i have no idea why this works!). Took the Bike out and Me and Mrs Og went off to Dunlaoghaire Market and had a stroll and a fresh fruit smoothie - watched the world go by for a while, then fecked off home. No more mechanicking today.

That was Sunday.
Today (monday and work day.) i took it to work. (no single cylinder issues). Ran fine. checked volts with meter across battery and at 2.5 to 3k rpms i got a reading of approx 13.5 to 14volts.

any ideas?
T.I.A .... again. :

 

[cookie]

Today (monday and work day.) i took it to work. (no single cylinder issues). Ran fine. checked volts with meter across battery and at 2.5 to 3k rpms i got a reading of approx 13.5 to 14volts.

this indicates your alternator is charging. at least when you checked it anyway

 

[ahutcheon]

i gave up - took the plug cap off the plug and balanced it on the tip of the plug (making the spark jump the gap always gets it back onto two cylinders - i have no idea why this works!).

This is on the side that wasn't running? I think its because forcing the spark to jump the other gap as well gives a faster voltage buildup at the plug gap and so creates a hot enough spark for combustion. But its late and I'm tired and its been a long time so I can't quite dredge up the details of why it works and what problem it points to. Fouled plug? Weak coil?

 

[Ogmios]

this indicates your alternator is charging. at least when you checked it anyway

Ah yes ~ you have Guzzis too.

This is on the side that wasn't running? ... Fouled plug? Weak coil?

yerss - side that wasn't running. If i'd taken off the other plug cap - it'd conk out altogether.
fouled plug. nope.
weak coil. lord no! - i got a dyna ignition (this is where i grin smugly!) - admittedly it powers two VW beetle coils but it works fine.

Keep trying guys - this is better than Cluedo.
Thank you.
EDIT:
R100gser,
i took a look at the first link you suggested - Thank you.
IF the same rules apply to a Cali 3 - page 165 seems to be rather helpful.

 

[Ogmios]

Finally managed to get the battery properly checked and yes, it's not fit for purpose - "well, it wouldn't be considered fit if it was in a car" said the bloke in the shop once he'd got over his shock at seeing what i'd managed to fit under the saddle - put his 'Bike battery tester' away and come back with a car one.

Here's the thing;
would i be overtaxing the charging system by having a a 38ah battery in there instead of 30ah(?)
(been so long i cant remember wtf is SUPPOSED to be there!)
As in - would it feck up the reg/rectifier - trying to top up a battery, way bigger than it was ever designed for?
I'll get a battery, just that
a smaller battery / big for a Bike - a 30ah gel battery for a Harley apparently - costs here €105
a direct replacement car battery that's 38ah is .... €50

 

[DrFarkoff]

Ahem Nudge Nudge

Not saying anyfink like!!

"BUT" told Ya! Ner ner ner-ner NER!!!!

Do a search for an 895 or 896 battery its a 30 amp hour lead acid and very popular with old Airheads and Guzzi's

Voltage: 12 Volts Capacity: 32 Ah

CCA: 390 SAE Length: 205 mm /Width: 132 mm /Height: 185 mm

Weight: 9.5 kg

 

[AberdeenAngus]

3 miles is not enough to put back what it took to start.

 

[Ogmios]

Ahem Nudge Nudge

Not saying anyfink like!! ....

Yes you are!
Though i note the battery details you suggest. (Thanks .. again!)
Now,

would i be overtaxing the charging system by having a a 38ah battery in there instead of 30ah(?)
(been so long i cant remember wtf is SUPPOSED to be there!)
As in - would it feck up the reg/rectifier - trying to top up a battery, way bigger than it was ever designed for?

What do you think?

Also,
Have you perhaps got a Valeo starter motor wot would fit this yoke? I suspect mine is adding to my electrickery woes.

Also,
anyone want a Rita electronic ignition set up for a Cali 3 - complete with coils ? £50 sound about right?

<---- sums me up right now!

 

[Damien]

I saw you outside battery world the other day Marc. I got a new battery from Batyre in Belfast a few years ago. They were waaaaaaaay cheaper than anything in Dublin.

I hope you get sorted.

 

[Ogmios]

I saw you outside battery world the other day Marc. I got a new battery from Batyre in Belfast a few years ago. They were waaaaaaaay cheaper than anything in Dublin.

I hope you get sorted.

Thank you - you Shoulda waved / honked / sworn at me.
Yes - it is NUTS how much cheaper it is up North.
Trouble is GETTING it from there to here.
I'm working on that.
.. which brings me to tyres - i need two they have got to be 1st on the shopping list.

Am fed up being skint! - it's all crappy / but tis better to have these hassles than to not have a Bike to have hassles with!
So, on balance; Life Is Good.

 

[Damien]

I did honk!

Robbie is cheap for tyres.

Here is a link to the R80gs repair manual. The Guzzi has the same electrical charging system, it may be of some use to you.

http://www.scribd.com/mobile/doc/26851318

If I am going north anytime soon I will let you know.

 

[Ogmios]

I did honk!

Robbie is cheap for tyres.

Here is a link to the R80gs repair manual. The Guzzi has the same electrical charging system, it may be of some use to you.

http://www.scribd.com/mobile/doc/26851318

If I am going north anytime soon I will let you know.

I will not comment on the state of your horn so.
Robbie is more than likely to be my 'shop of choice' - he seems incapable of overcharging a customer (now if i could get the Guzzi to charge correctly .... )

if Going north; Thank you in advance!

 

[DrFarkoff]

Here is a link to the R80gs repair manual. The Guzzi has the same electrical charging system, .

Not in Og's case Dammo

Its quite japanese like in its design i.e. No brushes and a combined rectifier regulator unit

 

[DrFarkoff]

(now if i could get the Guzzi to charge correctly ....

PLug it onto an Optimate at night then is charged in morning

Or use head and take street magic then take Guzzi a proper run !!!!

 

[Ogmios]

I may be onto a reasonable price battery here. (Cheers Nigel! ).
Still thinking on the other ... 'aspects' of the continued care and feeding of this yoke.
... i think it's actually a testament to the build quality of Guzzis that this one has put up with me so long.

~~

 

[Ogmios]

An update ... of sorts

Well somethings working.
Battery confirmed as being 'not good enough', so i just stick it on charge when at work or overnight at home - about twice a week.
This morning She misbehaved with that weird 'Today-i'm-a-500-single' stunt - where it goes onto one cylinder for no apparent reason.
I instantly glared at me lil LED battery monitor to see WTF i was getting there;
flashing red / discharging?
or solid orange / charging - but not much?
or solid green / charging enough?
None of the above....
feckin thing just went OUT!

not the fuse - after a while it came back on - as if nothing had happened at all.
Checked the voltage across the battery with a meter about a hour after getting to work; read 12.3 something / climbed to 12.7 something after a few seconds.

and sums up my thoughts.

p.s;
anyone ever used 'Maxxis' tyres on a Guzzi?
They're very cheap / are they any good?
~~~
Bewildered (as ever) in Dublin.