Aluminium and Hardened steel wanted

[john_aero]

Ok,

Looking for following if anyone has some laying around or know where i can get some cheap.

I will be making a template up soon enough for exact sizes.

Looking for:

1 - Hardened steel to machine up a new frotn axel for a fork conversion.

2 - 10mm min thick alu plate for calliper hangar (2 bits about 6-8in sqr)

3 - 20mm min thick alu plate for calliper hangar (2 bits about 6-8in sqr)

3 - alu plate, about 2-3mm thick and 2ft square sheet should be enough (or i un damaged road works sign....)

i know lot places these be cut offs but rather see if anyone has some they were going throw out or if know a engineering hsop that would happily give you their scraps

Cheers in advance

John

 

[Hadrian]

John,
Do not use hardenend steel for a front axel, I have seen the results of this. Good quality steel is what you require somthing like EN9, I will have a look around to see what I have, possibly some dural aluminium 10mm and 3mm which is what you want for caliper brackets. Hard to work with but does not break easily.

 

[bandan]

You want EN24T for a wheel spindle. It sounds expensive but it,s not. Most steel stockholders should have some in stock. Bear in mind that they might have a minimum charge. If you,re stuck, let me know the sizes you need and I might be able to get you sorted.
Aidan.

 

[john_aero]

cheers.

i will know next week the dia and lenght i need for the axel.

Fro hangars, well anything will do so long as strong enough really

made them out of mild steel in past and work fine just heavy as hell

 

[JayC]

Despite working in engineering and working with steels and aluminium all day I have deliberately held off from this subject because there is more to manufacturing a motorcycle axle than choosing a hard steel.

Yes EN24T is quite tough, but for an axle on a bike , I don't know so much. There are high loads in all directions on a bike axle, and yours, or someone elses life depends on it being right! There is no margin for error whatsoever. It doesn't want to be so hard that there is no bend allowance because the harder it is the more likely a break than a bend will take place. I know which I would prefer to happen of the two should this be the case.
The finish should be ground to a high level and very tight tolerances. If diameters vary along the axle then radii should be incorporated as opposed to shoulders. A zero yield point at the end of the thread, so no undercut.

A motorcycle axle will be under shear stresses where it enters each fork leg as well as having to hold the fork legs in alignment with each other as well as transmitting the radial and thrust loads from the wheel bearings to the fork legs.
Additional to this are loadings imposed by braking and road shock absorbtion.

A steel with high tensile properties means you can achieve high loads but due to its high yield point there will not be much elasticity in the steel and so a shear point gives little warning. Go the other way and you will have too much elasticity thereby risking the axle to bend under loadings.

Who is going to machine this axle? An engineering shop needs to have license to machine auto parts.

This is a very dodgy area to get into and if somebody came in to our workshop asking me to manufacture a motorcycle axle the answer would be 'no' , without hesitation!

I would however recommend finding an old axle and taking it to a metallurgist for a low down on its spec and properties.

 

[john_aero]

ideally i will find an old axel that fits the wheel, is long enough and means i just have press spacer on to it to enlarge it to fit the wider axel mount on fork. thats wht i did with my dakar.

but i dont have anymore axels left.

that or use existing honda axel and make up an extension piece that inserts from the other side and my old axel threads into it.

so my axel be inserted fromt he left side, onthe right be a long adaptor acting as a threadded section for my axel to threak into and also for the spacer of the right wheel side

 

[bandan]

You have made some valid points there Jay. I, like you have work in engineering. I was told years ago by an engineer that EN24T was the material that most bike manufacturers use for their wheel spindles and have since used it to make quite a few including on very wide forks without any failure. If you look at most modern wheel spindles they are hollow with only 3mm or 4mm wall thickness so a making a solid spindle should be more than strong enough. I agree that it isn,t a job to take lightly had whoever is doing it needs to know what he is at,but any decent machinist or turner should be able to make a wheel spindle.
John, feel free to research the best material to make a spindle before having one made. It,s you thats going to be riding it. I,d also advise against making anything that reaches in through the fork to make up any short fall in length of the spindle.
Aidan.

 

[john_aero]

You have made some valid points there Jay. I, like you have work in engineering. I was told years ago by an engineer that EN24T was the material that most bike manufacturers use for their wheel spindles and have since used it to make quite a few including on very wide forks without any failure. If you look at most modern wheel spindles they are hollow with only 3mm or 4mm wall thickness so a making a solid spindle should be more than strong enough. I agree that it isn,t a job to take lightly had whoever is doing it needs to know what he is at,but any decent machinist or turner should be able to make a wheel spindle.
John, feel free to research the best material to make a spindle before having one made. It,s you thats going to be riding it. I,d also advise against making anything that reaches in through the fork to make up any short fall in length of the spindle.
Aidan.

well i will be the one makign them up, if i cant get time i will get the fitter/turner in work who is girfed on any metal working machine to make them up to a set of drawings

more the right material i was hoping to get my hands on if i could

 

[big fella]

Wheel spindle

John en24 is the way to go. Make sure you ask for a clearance/slide fit from ur turner in case he err's on the side of caution and leaves too much material. I've made a good few of these in the past and the last thing that will shear bend or break will be the axle.

 

[john_aero]

well i have putforks on hold as lad had wronglegs, he has an old and new leg so they are different size

but will start getting material ordered so will have the metal ready

cheers for heads up onthe right axel material

 

[JayC]

well i have putforks on hold as lad had wronglegs, he has an old and new leg so they are different size

but will start getting material ordered so will have the metal ready

cheers for heads up onthe right axel material

You have no way of knowing that it is the right material to use. You have just been told by someone who was told by someone else that EN24 is the right material.

My parents told me Father Christmas was a real person when I was a child - I know that is true because their parents told them too , besides I met Father Christmas once!

 

[john_aero]

You have no way of knowing that it is the right material to use. You have just been told by someone who was told by someone else that EN24 is the right material.

My parents told me Father Christmas was a real person when I was a child - I know that is true because their parents told them too , besides I met Father Christmas once!

rang a material supplier in uk and asked what they would use, they told me the same material, en24t is the material they use for high speed axels and gearbox shafts

uti do understand that these are different specs to thoes of a bike but i will check with each supplier andmanufacturers and see whats say. i have a base material now to work off and see what get

but as forks are being delayed iamnotnot rushed so will bechattingto the material suppliers andwill bring the spareaxeli have into work anddo few checks tosee of can see what material itsmade from