Another clutch problem and confusion

[(RIP) maverick]

Morning techies!

Spend several hours last night with Yosi replacing his 1100GS clutch and pressure plate. Now after we took out the Gearbox for the 4th time at 01:00 this morning we ran out of ideas.

<img src="http://www.maverick-evolution.150m.com/2004/yosi/yosi_gearbox0001.jpg"></img><br><p>

<img src="http://www.maverick-evolution.150m.com/2004/yosi/yosi_gearbox0002.jpg"></img><br><p>

<img src="http://www.maverick-evolution.150m.com/2004/yosi/yosi_gearbox0003.jpg"></img><br><p>

Problem is the clutch won't engage and there is no resistance on the lever at the back of the gearbox or the front of the lever(Yes the cable was put back.) Now living in a technical world of paranoia after I installed the diaphram plate the wrong way around on my GS last time we stripped down everything again to make sure it is the correct way in, which it was and stiill is. So as far as the manual, myself and Yosi is concerned the clutch assembly is fine. We even went as far as to re-install the old bits to check if the new stuff is not faulty. he pushrod is not bend and looks fine. The feeling we get is that when you pull on the clutch arm at the back of the gearbox it does not push the rod far enough to the front?

Some more pics....

<img src="http://www.maverick-evolution.150m.com/2004/yosi/yosi_gearbox0004.jpg"></img><br><p>

<img src="http://www.maverick-evolution.150m.com/2004/yosi/yosi_gearbox0005.jpg"></img><br><p>


Stripped the clutch actuation assembly at the back and the pushrod piston etc all in order and good condition. Are we missing something and what else can we try?

<img src="http://www.maverick-evolution.150m.com/2004/yosi/yosi_gearbox0006.jpg"></img><br><p>

<img src="http://www.maverick-evolution.150m.com/2004/yosi/yosi_gearbox0007.jpg"></img><br><p>

<img src="http://www.maverick-evolution.150m.com/2004/yosi/yosi_gearbox0008.jpg"></img><br><p>

Thanks for any helpful insight and ideas!

Cheers

Confused mechanic.

 

[(RIP) Kaister]

Are you saying the g'box operating arm goes in but doesn't push on the clutch centre?

Is there a ball bearing or short actuation rod missing ?

 

[(RIP) maverick]

Are you saying the g'box operating arm goes in but doesn't push on the clutch centre?
?

Correct dude,

You can move the operating arm by hand forwards and backwards all the way. The pushrod is in as is the pushrod piston etc. We did not strip the gearbox at all and literally just pulled the pushrod out the first time to check it is ok.

Really baffling since all worked ok before except for the clutch slipping and the plate is really knackered.

 

[(RIP) Kaister]

off the top o' me head....


pushrod has stayed in the g'box ?

so therefore clutch pressure point is now too far from the pushrod end ?

the only thing it can be is the clutch mounting point faces are' relatively' different to the 'push point'

ie when bolted up against the engine case the contact point is - 10mm ? - too far in towards the engine ?

space the clutch outer out ? theres a thread about a touratech clutch and spacers.

pushrod length changed ?

clutch arm pivot worn ?

dunno - a bit tricky from here.

 

[(RIP) maverick]

off the top o' me head....


pushrod has stayed in the g'box ? - We took it out to prevent it from bending.

so therefore clutch pressure point is now too far from the pushrod end ? - No distance could of changed as all the same spares has gone in.

the only thing it can be is the clutch mounting point faces are' relatively' different to the 'push point' - We aligned the clutch plate/ pressure plate and diahram with an old shaft so they should be fine.

pushrod length changed ? Same pushrod dude and not snapped or bend.

clutch arm pivot worn ? Worked fine untill we stripped it.

Very confusing indeed. I did mine earlier the year and did everthing exactly the same way except it was colder and put the diahram plate the wrong way around which resulted in the same scenario but we tripple checked that it was correct this time.

 

[Den]

Sometimes at the lever end of clutch pushrods there is a ball bearing (single ball) or some sort of thrust bearing.
I dont know if there should be one in the bmw, but it would explain the extra play.
Also check if the hardened end bit of the pushrod has not fallen off.

 

[(RIP) maverick]

Sometimes at the lever end of clutch pushrods there is a ball bearing (single ball) or some sort of thrust bearing.
I dont know if there should be one in the bmw, but it would explain the extra play.
Also check if the hardened end bit of the pushrod has not fallen off.

Fair enough however where would this ballbearing have gone as there is a pushrod piston that covers the gearbox to the inside and a rubber sleeve with the adjuster bolt going through to the end of the pushrod piston.

The length of the pushrod is standard and nothing broke off as far as I could see. There was also no lose bits etc around as we worked carefully and patiently the whole evening. Unless there was a ballbearing on the inside of the pushrod which would mean that once the pushrod is pulled out from the front it would fall into the gearbox - I FEKIN HOPE NOT.

Bizzare

 

[Älgen]

Did you find what was wrong?

I have the same problem with my bike.

 

[Steptoe]

Did you find what was wrong?

I have the same problem with my bike.

Ahh yes, i remember it well . I ended up being called in

Took 1 minute to find the problem - the clutch plate was dished. I suspect caused by not having the gearbox input shaft correctly alinged in the clutch splines - So when you bolted the gearbox onto the engine, the gearbox input shaft pushed the clutch plate, causing it to deform .

 

[Pukmeister]

Neil, is it best to use a clutch alignment tool to prevent this, or can you just fit them "by eye" and get away with it ??

Surely a bit of Molybdenum grease or graphite paste on the splines would help matters when reassembling ?

 

[Steptoe]

Neil, is it best to use a clutch alignment tool to prevent this, or can you just fit them "by eye" and get away with it ??

Surely a bit of Molybdenum grease or graphite paste on the splines would help matters when reassembling ?

You can do it by eye, but even if using a centering tool , it's still possible to "force" the clutch plate (if your a bit heavy handed )
Always use the pushrod to center the diaphram spring, and insert it into place while the gearbox is stil out, then slide the gearbox along the pushrod ( without putting any weight onto the pushrod).

Splines should always be greased anyway, but it won't help the splines to locate if they're misaligned. Also helps if the box is in gear, with a couple of wheel bolts in the rear bevel, turn the bolts so the gearbox splines turn and helps pop them into place - if you know what i mean .

 

[judge]

Ahh yes, i remember it well . I ended up being called in

Took 1 minute to find the problem - the clutch plate was dished. I suspect caused by not having the gearbox input shaft correctly alinged in the clutch splines - So when you bolted the gearbox onto the engine, the gearbox input shaft pushed the clutch plate, causing it to deform .

I thought it was due to Motorworks supplying a dished clutch plate?

 

[Steptoe]

I thought it was due to Motorworks supplying a dished clutch plate?

Yes, of course it was , how forgetful of me .