Another step forwards in solving the problem...now, Lambda sensors info please?

Oh Dear!. I hope the weather improves. Sunny again here. :thumb

This is getting quite difficult and I should know having been in a similar place before, and occasionally now as well.

If you have a thermometer take an ambient air temperature reading and measure the resistance across the terminals on your air intake sensor: This may tell you if that component is about right. I've done this before and could find the results within this section.
Another component which feeds temperature information back to the Motronic is the oil temperature sensor but I don't know the strategy used by the ECU to deal with this.

Please remind us if you have checked your fuel supply output, i.e. looked at the fuel dispersal from the output of the injectors whilst cranking the engine or with a battery.
There's one more thing I'm loathed to suggest within the fuel supply system, and that's the fuel pressure regulator which I replaced but, did not help.

Lastly, are your TB's gummed up?
 
I know it's clutching at straws, but if the valves made it to the cat, have you checked the headers are clear?

Sounds like a minor, but persistant electriocal gremlin though, I'd probably be thinking of replacing the loom about now as it's becoming the weak link with all the new parts fitted.:eek
 
roddy said:
Hows the compression on the cylinder that needed the valve adjusted, are they still okay ?
Click to expand...

No idea, not got a compression tester here, but so soon after last registering well, i can't believe its gone dead.
The valves were a distraction anyway i think.....certainly made it worse, but not the core of the problem

AndrewD said:
I know it's clutching at straws, but if the valves made it to the cat, have you checked the headers are clear?

Sounds like a minor, but persistant electriocal gremlin though, I'd probably be thinking of replacing the loom about now as it's becoming the weak link with all the new parts fitted.:eek
Click to expand...

I thought that as well.....but again, doesn't match up with occasional good running....a blockage is usually a blockage, something rammed tight in, not an intermittent blockage IYSWIM.

The only bits we were 'missing' (the two valve heads) are now accounted for.....the swarf from the piston heads wouldn't be enough to block a 2' pipe, and if it had blocked the cat, that's now removed from the equation.

I can't afford to replace the loom, but I will certainly be exploring it further, as a damaged wire or bad contact seems more and more likely to be the gremlin :(
 
Fanum said:
No idea, not got a compression tester here, but so soon after last registering well, i can't believe its gone dead.
The valves were a distraction anyway i think.....certainly made it worse, but not the core of the problem
Click to expand...

Maybe but my logic was

If the valves have gone out again, the balance would be miles out as well, causing the engine to run fluffy due to the huge imbalance in flows,
possibly only showing it self once the engine was warm, I suspose if you checked the TB while its running smooth/rough this would be an indicator if the valves/compression where still good ?

The valves being out was a known fault, and even though you reset the valves do you know there still good, I've always been taught deal with one fault at a time so not to confuse the issue

Then again it has been known for me to talk a pile of pish :D
 
Fanum said:
I can't afford to replace the loom, but I will certainly be exploring it further, as a damaged wire or bad contact seems more and more likely to be the gremlin :(
Click to expand...

I'd be looking at the earths first, just sorted a K (very similar) with 'issues' all ended up being a poor earth.

The big problem is it's impractical to try each joint and then ride, so you might never know what the issue was :(

Possibly a 'Silver Bullet' would be to try a donor ECU or have a look inside yours. Have a look at this page from sorting exactly the same ECU as yours on a K1100.

http://madstu.net/2010/03/its-alive-how-to-fix-an-ecu/

Either way, if your stuck and need transport I've got a Jumbo Transit
 
Just a thought - But i seem to remember when we plugged in the laptop the first time around that the TPS had recorded several intermittent faults.

And when they go bad it can give similar symptoms to what you have.
 
AndrewD said:
I'd be looking at the earths first, just sorted a K (very similar) with 'issues' all ended up being a poor earth.

The big problem is it's impractical to try each joint and then ride, so you might never know what the issue was :(

Possibly a 'Silver Bullet' would be to try a donor ECU or have a look inside yours. Have a look at this page from sorting exactly the same ECU as yours on a K1100.

http://madstu.net/2010/03/its-alive-how-to-fix-an-ecu/

Either way, if your stuck and need transport I've got a Jumbo Transit
Click to expand...

Thanks for that :beerjug:

It 'fluffs' badly enough when stood idling and given a few k revs, so fortunately, I should notice the difference if I tweak an earth point and it was the problem :thumb2

Steptoe said:
Just a thought - But i seem to remember when we plugged in the laptop the first time around that the TPS had recorded several intermittent faults.

And when they go bad it can give similar symptoms to what you have.
Click to expand...


I've got a spare TPS in a box....will whip that out and give it a go :thumb2
 
So, with a few hours to mess around today and Charlie the spanner monkey to help, I got stuck in again.

First of all though I'd walked a couple of miles to the petrol station to grab a jerry of fuel, as all the starting attempts the other day had left it dry :blast

Chug chug chug.....cough splutter splutter.....and into life she burst...This is with new lambda, Y piece and pretty much straight through remus.

Gave her a good ten seconds for the oil to get around, then she was revving sweetly, crackling a bit at the 'zorst end but I can live with that.......held at 2k revs for 30 secs, fine, 3k revs, fine, 4k revs, fine, and a few seconds at 6k and also fine......not fluffing down as before, holding revs nicely.....So we finsish off the bracketry jigsaw and manage to make everything line up, and put the left hand pannier back on.......fire here up again and yay, situation still the same. :thumb

Charlie and I get some kit on and I take bike off centre stand ten mins later, fire her up and ....spluff spluff spluff :(

WTF!!!

Ok, back onto centre stand, start up (with difficulty), rev it a bit, raise and lower side stand just in case a fractionally intermittent short is happening there.....wiggle the wiring, thinking all the time "I'll never get away with telling the guys it was all down to a side stand fault if this works, but I don't care!" but the side stand switch is making no difference....

Bike off again, helmet off, tried her again...springs into life, revs as before, sounding sweet, so off we go round the block immediately.

No good.....as soon as it's in gear and pulls slightly to get away, back to spluffing.....although Charlie and I agree that it's a good 30-40% better than before.

Filled up with fresh fuel to the brim, 'just in case', then a 2 mile circuit including some fast road, where top speed in 6th is again established to be 60mph.

It still feels like it 'wants' to go, if you know what I mean, and from 0-20, it is almost right.....it's better, but not enough to make me want to ride, and certainly no pleasure in it :( (made some schoolgirls scream though as it backfired like a beauty on the overun as we spluttered past them :D :D)

I've dug out the spare TPS sensor, but I haven't put it on yet....that'll be coming soon, but the positive thing is that the 'zorst/lambda swap has made differnce, in the right direction :thumb2
 
My 2p again.

Having changed the exhaust and the Lambda at the same time (assuming I read this right), you've changed two variables. This will make it difficult to work out the cause of the perceived improvement.

That said, as you've seen an improvement, my gut feeling is that it points to the mixture being over rich (at least over rich when it's misbehaving). The fact that it isn't 'cured' means that you haven't actually found the problem - you've just made the bike better able to cope with it by changing the exhaust.

My gut feeling is massively over rich fuelling caused by another as yet unsolved issue (maybe the TPS?).

Have you got any really steep hills nearby? - I once had a nightmare sorting the fuelling out when I changed the carb on an XT500 - I was riding it to a dyno with it fluffing and popping like a bastard until I reached a steep hill when it suddenly cleared up and pulled like a train. It turned out they'd sent the wrong jets with the carb kit I bought and it was running way over rich.

Might be worth trying to really load it up and see if it improves. However too much longer running very rich might trash your new lambda...

I'm currently hoping that your TPS is fecked and is telling the ECU that your throttle is much further open than it is.
 
MattW said:
My 2p again.

Having changed the exhaust and the Lambda at the same time (assuming I read this right), you've changed two variables. This will make it difficult to work out the cause of the perceived improvement.

That said, as you've seen an improvement, my gut feeling is that it points to the mixture being over rich (at least over rich when it's misbehaving). The fact that it isn't 'cured' means that you haven't actually found the problem - you've just made the bike better able to cope with it by changing the exhaust.

My gut feeling is massively over rich fuelling caused by another as yet unsolved issue (maybe the TPS?).

Have you got any really steep hills nearby? - I once had a nightmare sorting the fuelling out when I changed the carb on an XT500 - I was riding it to a dyno with it fluffing and popping like a bastard until I reached a steep hill when it suddenly cleared up and pulled like a train. It turned out they'd sent the wrong jets with the carb kit I bought and it was running way over rich.

Might be worth trying to really load it up and see if it improves. However too much longer running very rich might trash your new lambda...

I'm currently hoping that your TPS is fecked and is telling the ECU that your throttle is much further open than it is.
Click to expand...

Thanks Matt, and yes, that does fit my gut feeling about it as well.

I knew I'd be changing two things at once, but The cat had to come out really in case it was blocked......that would have potentially screwed the new lambda as well.

No big hills here, but it didn't feel like it wanted to pull any better up the slight hill out of Harwich with Charlie on the back (he weighs less than a gnat's fart though, but I probably compensate more than enough on that score ;) )

Swapping the Spare TPS for the original TPS is literally only a minute's job, but I'm being cautious about it because if the tolerances on the shaft/socket are fractionally different on the very second hand spare one compared to the original, then the TPS that i know is set perfectly right now (even if it may be faulty, IYSWIM) could be WELL out. (It took me a fair while of jiggling in what seemed to me micrometers of adjustment to get to 3.6v)
 
Fanum said:
Swapping the Spare TPS for the original TPS is literally only a minute's job, but I'm being cautious about it because if the tolerances on the shaft/socket are fractionally different on the very second hand spare one compared to the original, then the TPS that i know is set perfectly right now (even if it may be faulty, IYSWIM) could be WELL out. (It took me a fair while of jiggling in what seemed to me micrometers of adjustment to get to 3.6v)
Click to expand...

Did you keep the voltmeter attached and turn the throttle to check if the voltage ramps up?
 
Fanum said:
Yes.

Also, Neil's GS911 gave me a pat on the back and said it was spot on when I limped it into him :thumb2
Click to expand...


So it's not the TPS:D

You'll get there in the end, we all do eventually...then reflect on how we could have achieved it more simply, but that's hindsight:thumb
 
What other sensors affect fuelling?

Air temperature? oil temperature?

After this, I'd start looking for wiring faults - eg is the TPS voltage actually getting to the ECU intact?
 
Timolgra said:
So it's not the TPS:D

You'll get there in the end, we all do eventually...then reflect on how we could have achieved it more simply, but that's hindsight:thumb
Click to expand...

I can't honestly remember what Neil did the second before the GS911 pronounced the TPS as set correctly.......the reason I took so long setting it initially was because A) I'm a hamfisted twat and B) because I was giving it some revs after getting the right result at idle, and trying to get it all come together :blast

Plus...it was the guru himself that suggested the TPS most recently, on this very thread......if it's an intermittent fault, or a bit of a quirky one (maybe some arcing damage on the shaft, I dunno, I haven't looked inside one yet to understand how they're built) or something, it still seems very feasible that the TPS currently fitted is iffy :nenau

Bear in mind that as far as I know, this is the original TPS and therefore it's had a bloody hard life :thumb
 
MattW said:
What other sensors affect fuelling?

Air temperature? oil temperature?

After this, I'd start looking for wiring faults - eg is the TPS voltage actually getting to the ECU intact?
Click to expand...


I did look at the write ups and tech specs of the various booster plugs earlier today, with that very thought in mind........the ATS in particular seems a possible thing in line for replacement, although the current one is clean and securely wired.


I think I've got to eliminate the gremlins produced in what i've done recently though before I move on to another suspect....or I could just be compounding issues :blast
 
The main symptom of a failed TPS is running very rich, giving a sooty exhaust and very high fuel consumption.
 
Timolgra said:
So it's not the TPS:D

You'll get there in the end, we all do eventually..
Click to expand...

I'm not liking the word 'Eventually' here Tim...I'm supposed to be leading a group around Morocco off road in a couple of weeks on this bike, and I am going the be very very unhappy if I can't :tears

Timolgra said:
The main symptom of a failed TPS is running very rich, giving a sooty exhaust and very high fuel consumption.
Click to expand...

Which fits.

:blast
 
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