Any Any Aircraft engineers? - (Rivetting & Gluing Q's).

  • Thread starter Thread starter Marjorie Proops
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The glue they use on bus side panels was permabond. Alexanders(bus manufacturer) used that because it has a relatively low peel strength so that panels can easily be replaced. When we tried double sided tapes the mechanics caused more damage to the supporting structure than the cars that crashed into them.
 
Forget aircraft technique and think modern truck building - its the same as old aircraft these days.

Use oversize truck body rivets and sikaflex panel adhesive.

We built all our cargo boxes and truck bodies with this stuff and never had a structural failure.
Get any alumium extrusions you need from truckbuilders supplies.

You'll need an air operated rivet gun for starters
 
I have to agree with Motomartin aircraft structures and truck structures are fundamentally different. As your essentially building a truck that’s the technology you should be using. I have a mate that flogs air compressors if thats of any use :)
 
I could be going down the wrong path here but on aluminium clad and framed truck bodies they use some goo out of a tube as well as rivets, there is also a tape that sticks lie sh#t to a blanket and does not need riveting. On a work colleagues old truck he had stainless steel cladding on the side and this was just glued onto steel frames, which made it a sod of a job to remove damaged panels. Best talk to a truck body manufacturer.
 
Having built flying machines with pop rivetts and ali, I would chip in that it's well doable.

Ali is best etch primed with zinc chromate (for heaven's sake wear a gas mask as it contains a well known carciniogen). ZC, when sprayed very sparingly will both etch for GRP attachment and protect against corrosion.

I personally put more faith (for structural etch -GRP joints) in abrasion with emery cloth. Again this has to be done carefully in aircraft.

Disimilar metals do react and is best avoided.

Ali is not weak at all when used correctly and of course has the advantage of lightness and is easily worked. There will be applications in aircraft where, of course, it is not suitable..such as control columns etc..crome moly being preferable.

However, ali rivets are not necesarily the right things to use on certain joints. Harder rivets are used and dipped in yellow gunk...Iv'e forgotten the name of the stuff..to prevent corrosion.

That's my two cents....but I'm an amateur

Ben
 
i'd rather over engineer something that doesn't fly - and seeing as all this hardware is std stuff, including aluminium extrusions - in the road transport industry, then are you saying they are doing it all wrong and have been for years ??

..and you have no idea what he's trying to do in reality.

but next time i'm designing some aircraft structures i'll let you know :mmmm

( I did aircraft eng at farnborough )
 
motomartin said:
here you go

extrusions
:http://www.aalco.co.uk/range/transport.html

avdel monobolts here - strongest rivets you'll find
http://www.albert-jagger.co.uk/Default.aspx?tabid=439

you''ll like that site :thumb
Click to expand...

Thanks for that Phil, it's pretty much the track I was on at the beginning (see my post No 7). But the bit I cannot get info on is the combined use of both decent rivets AND Sikaflex.
The like the idea of a bit of flex / vibration damping (sika) but this seems to go against the basic idea of friction clamping in rivets - hence the question about film thickness. Clearly there is no point if the rivets simply sqeeze out the sika.
I'm happy with the mechanics of both fixings individually, but not combined.

Perhaps a solid ally 3mm sandwich spacer every so often where the rivets are with a 3mm sika only joint in the rest :nenau

Steve

Ps. perhaps I should just phone sika :aidan
 
steve - use a small bead of sika as a sealer between panels and let the rivets do the friction clamping.- they'll squeeze the sika out.

Don't try and use sika as vibration damping in this type of joint - just fillet seal with it.

You can use it to bond sheet panels easily enough.

i'd be looking at using specific rubber bonded mounts in compression not shear if youre looking for vibration control / damping

talk to a truck body builder :thumb
 
Be careful with the adhesives only route. If I remember correctly, you can get into a situation where the peel strength of the bond is weakened by having too much thickness in the adhesive, effectively splitting the adhesive layer through the middle.

Could be wrong mind, been a few years since I was a member of the 'Welding and Joining Society', and besides, I studied more on welding than adhesives.
 
Nippy Normans supply Touratech, Wunderlich, Desert Fox and many other makes of accessories.
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