anyone else still missing the power ???

[newman7096]

A 1200R engine in a GS chasis now that would be interesting!

 

[sproggy]

A 1200R engine in a GS chasis now that would be interesting!

Now you're talking I'd fight my way to the front of the queue for a K1200GS Imagine what a wheelie machine that would be..... They'd probably be better using the K1200GT engine tune ('only' 150bhp but more torque lower down the rev range) rather than the R/S version but.....

Anyone want to volunteer to be the first to build a K1200R/R1200GS hybrid?

Something like....... K1200R, GS rear subframe and seats, slightly taller, longer-travel suspension, renthal bars with handguards, GS screen (the headlights are already the same).....what a bike that would be!

 

[NorthernBoy]

Without compromise? From what I've read, people who've ridden the R1200S might disagree with that..

The point is that other manufacturers manage it. Are you really claiming that, if we were willing to pay £2k more, that it is not possible to come up with an engine of the same weight, size, and feeling but with 20% more power and torque?

100bhp from a 1200cc twin is really pretty poor.

The fact that there exists another engine that is compromised is really neither here nor there. Why would I use the R1200s as a reference point?

 

[Aurelius]

The point is that other manufacturers manage it. Are you really claiming that, if we were willing to pay £2k more, that it is not possible to come up with an engine of the same weight, size, and feeling but with 20% more power and torque?

Of course, but it wouldn't be based on an archaic air/oil cooled boxer engine. A modern liquid cooled 1200cc twin, triple, or inline 4 would burry the 1200GS motor in terms of performance, and be considerably lighter. I think BMW realized this when they'd made plans to replace the old boxer motor with an inline 4 decades ago, but public outrage from BMW traditionalists kept the boxer motor in production.

 

[sproggy]

The point is that other manufacturers manage it.

How many other manufacturers produce a boxer twin?

Are you really claiming that, if we were willing to pay £2k more, that it is not possible to come up with an engine of the same weight, size, and feeling but with 20% more power and torque?

Same weight and size? No problem (let's face it - the BMW boxer engine is neither small nor particularly light). Same feeling? Maybe. Same configuration? Unlikely.

100bhp from a 1200cc twin is really pretty poor.

By what standards? You can't compare a boxer twin directly with a V-twin because the boxer configuration imposes design restrictions that don't exist with a V-twin (mainly balance-related). BMW have a marketing strategy which involves continuing with an engine configuration that other manufacturers ignore. Until someone else brings out a smooth, reliable 120bhp boxer twin to prove otherwise (which I can't see happening) I don't think there's any basis for claiming that 100bhp is a poor output from that configuration.

I can think of only one other boxer engined bike on the market and that's Honda's Goldwing - 117bhp from an 1800cc, boxer SIX. Still think the GS is bad?!

The fact that there exists another engine that is compromised is really neither here nor there. Why would I use the R1200s as a reference point?

Because it's the only engine with the same configuration putting out the amount of power (+20bhp) that you claim should be possible. Using any other bike as a reference point is meaningless.

 

[Joyseeker]

why go for a new engine..... just down load different mapping.

 

[SpyInTheCamp]

this is my third gs and 80% of the time its just great but it is frustrating when you want to get a real move on
on point and squirt back roads its as good as anything but when you have one of those long swooping fast roads it just hasnt got enough go
on the other hand it may be saving my licence
am i the only one that misses the extra power i was riding blackbirds before the gs and that fantastic pull from 90 to 140 is still dear to my heart
just going to have to live with it /without it for now
just come back from a week in scotland which has underlined for me that im still missing the rush ....it really is pretty weedy from 90 upwards

Go on, stick a turbo on it. You know you want to.

Kai

 

[BBB61]

but public outrage from BMW traditionalists kept the boxer motor in production.

I don't think it was public outrage Andrew. More like good old fashioned considerations such as sales figures.

 

[sproggy]

why go for a new engine..... just down load different mapping.

You can't re-map a gas oven to become a microwave. You can change some things with mapping but not basic characteristics of an engine - those are decided by configuration, cams, timing etc.

 

[sproggy]

K1200GS

Here it is - a spy photo straight from BMW's secret testing area. The soon to be released K1200GS (now watch all the hits this thread gets )

Bit rough, but I couldn't find any comparable larger images to mess about with:

 

[NorthernBoy]

Because it's the only engine with the same configuration putting out the amount of power (+20bhp) that you claim should be possible. Using any other bike as a reference point is meaningless.

Of course it's not. There is no need, given what the bike is designed to do, that it needs to have an air-cooled opposed twin.

My point is that is has a crap engine. Insisting on keeping the points that make it crap is completely missing the point.

It is like if I say your wife is fat and ugly, and you say that she's the most beautiful woman in the world, as long as you insist that you only consider fat women with beards, for example (not suggesting this matches your wife, of course).

 

[sproggy]

Of course it's not. There is no need, given what the bike is designed to do, that it needs to have an air-cooled opposed twin.

You need to decide what you want, then, because previously you said:

It is certainly the case that 1200 twin can put out much more than our bike does, without any significant compromise anywhere else but on price.

So do you want more power from the existing engine configuration or from a completely different one? Because changing the configuration (for example to a V-twin as most other big trailies have) certainly smacks of significant compromise when you consider that would almost certainly mean throwing away the telelever system as well and therefore re-designing the whole frame. And to get that much power from a V-twin you'd need water cooling too - space needed for a radiator, extra complication.....but no significant compromise?

Let's face it, changing the engine configuration isn't an option in an R-series BMW - they all have, by definition, a horizontally-opposed, air-cooled flat twin engine.

My point is that is has a crap engine.

Yet you still bought one - why?

Insisting on keeping the points that make it crap is completely missing the point.

And insisting on changing the engine configuration in a range of bikes that are defined by that very configuration is also missing the point. Maybe a Varadero, V-strom, Tiger, Caponord, KTM Adventure etc would suit you better?