Does it matter how long it goes on?
It will die a natural death pretty soon - I think, either that or I will be left talking to myself and I get bored with that after a week or two
Does it matter how long it goes on?
It will die a natural death pretty soon - I think, either that or I will be left talking to myself and I get bored with that after a week or two
Same here. I wouldn't knock the bike for how it rides. Absolutely superb IMHO. Failure rates seen however are just too high. Most people aren't having just the odd niggle, but whole groups of problems i.e. fuel pump, gearbox seal, engine plate corrosion, rear tail light, etc. etc. I'd hope for everybody's sake that the 2007 model is utterly reliable - BMW would have my money straight away.
There is however some mitigating points. As BMW have the image of reliability, people believe that they can be treated differently to 'ordinary' bikes. Riders are therefore more likely to ride in bad conditions that you wouldn't submit a Ducatti to. Also the average BMW rider will be doing high mileage. A beemer with 40k on is a common site, you won't see that with many jap bikes. Not because they're not capable, but because the riders use them in a different manner. I'd suggest that these two factors would act to find any mechanical / electrical / corrosion issues quicker. This still does not account for the high failure rate.
As an engineer I simply cannot abide poor reliability - there is no reason for it on a bike which costs quite a bit more than similar machines. The premium should go somewhere to provide better R&D, better materials, etc. I'd guess that the premium is actually going to flashier showrooms, more profit and warranty work.
Hopefully BMW will get their shit together and win back some of their lost customers. There are of course the usual die hard brand freek that will not change their bike no matter what.
The Exact reason mine is now for sale -
I have written to BMW complaining about the lack of quality in there bikes, this has been my 1st and possibly last BMW
, a brand name like BMW has been succesful over the years due to there build quility and relaiblity, but they're now Jeopardising this with poor component's 
Question is what do i by next
I have written to BMW complaining about the lack of quality in there bikes, this has been my 1st and possibly last BMW
, a brand name like BMW has been succesful over the years due to there build quility and relaiblity, but they're now Jeopardising this with poor component's Question is what do i by next
I too am concerned about your mental state
My remarks about stupid owners are based on, for example, reading a thread on a servo equipped bike not being able to complete it's "power on checks" whilst on a hill "because you had to have the brake operated to stop it moving". FFS
I can find other examples - all related to no commonsense at all and not reading the manual. Some people take a pride in this
quote "If all else fails read the manual"Off to Montenegro tomorrow
I am taking a spare fuel pump controller though and have a GS 911 to read the controllers.
The Exact reason mine is now for sale -
I have written to BMW complaining about the lack of quality in there bikes, this has been my 1st and possibly last BMW
Question is what do i by next
A dictionary?
GSoh
Guest
What's an early 1200GS? Mine is a 55 plate, 2006 model registered in February 2006. Is that early or late!!? I've had it 2 months and covered around 2,000 miles. Nothing wrong with it so far other than the battery which was replaced under warranty. It only had 2.5k on it when I bought it.
This thread makes depressing reading for a new GSer and BMW owner like me
This thread makes depressing reading for a new GSer and BMW owner like me
Dahoum
Registered user
This thread makes depressing reading for a new GSer and BMW owner like me
Then dont read it - just enjoy riding your bike and remember, like someone has already said, essentially it's just a machine and machines are never perfect.
go to any car/bike forum and you'll never buy the machine they are based on because again as has been said elsewhere, the complaints get shouted about the most
By god mine gives me a great big grin everytime I ride it though
I too am concerned about your mental state
My remarks about stupid owners are based on, for example, reading a thread on a servo equipped bike not being able to complete it's "power on checks" whilst on a hill "because you had to have the brake operated to stop it moving". FFS
I can find other examples - all related to no commonsense at all and not reading the manual. Some people take a pride in this
Off to Montenegro tomorrow
There are lots of numpties who don't read the manual - however there are plenty of 'real' issues as well.
What's an early 1200GS? Mine is a 55 plate, 2006 model registered in February 2006. Is that early or late!!? I've had it 2 months and covered around 2,000 miles. Nothing wrong with it so far other than the battery which was replaced under warranty. It only had 2.5k on it when I bought it.
This thread makes depressing reading for a new GSer and BMW owner like me
04 plate is an early one. Don't get depressed - IT IS A GREAT BIKE! - It's just that BMW owners are hyper-critical.
bigal
Guest
As I originally started the thread I thought I might bring you up to date on whats happening. My much loved , and indeed brilliant to ride 2005 GS is being fixed at the moment and should be ready by weeks end, after which it will be for sale. I have lost all faith in BMW bikes and just cant rely on it to get me to where I want to go. I have being browsing through a number of owners forums of machines I am thinking of buying , and much as it galls me to say it, it seems that japanese machines are less prone to failure of major parts, so with great sadness its bye bye to bmw.
I wish you luck - but from personal experience don't buy a Honda ST1300. My GSs have been much more reliable i.e. not on the back of a lorry - like my Pan
And as you said you don't like recalls, I don't have a problem myself with them, that just cements the point above.
andyclift
Registered user
Recalls
I really cannot see why anyone would object to recalls when the choice is driving around on a, potentially, faulty bike or spending half an hour in a dealer getting it checked.
Bikes and cars are highly complex bits of kit these days and despite pre-production testing there will always be issues that are not apparent until extended `real world' use. The recall problem is one that is more likely to affect buyers of new models as faults found in use will be designed out but some issues are not apparent until extended use. There is also the problem that BMW, in common with all vehicle builders, rely on sub-contractors and occasionally they get it wrong with faulty materials or a bad batch of parts. This is not a problem that can be found by testing, it not until a few vehicles fail that the fault becomes known.
A good example is the 1200GS recall to reroute the front ABS cable. I understand that there was no problem with the cable but BMW discovered that some tyre fitters were refitting wheels improperly. Hardly a BMW problem and not something that would come up in testing but BMW solved it. It is not until you get a few thousand bikes on the road and get them repaired or serviced by many different dealers and repairers that these problems become apparent.
My wife was suprised to get a recall notice on her CS a month after buying it second hand from a non-BMW dealer. It was for a potential fault on a tank seal and the bike was traced through DVLA. There was no problem but it gives confidence to know that a manufacturer takes the trouble to trace bikes and get them checked.
We could probaby avoid most of the recalls by going back to simple bikes with no ABS or servos, no hydraulic brakes, no fuel injection, no on board computers, theft alarms, immobilisers, gear indicators, fault warnings, power sockets, elctic starters, etc. etc. What we have left is a 1960s bike. They did not get recalled, they just broke down.
I really cannot see why anyone would object to recalls when the choice is driving around on a, potentially, faulty bike or spending half an hour in a dealer getting it checked.
Bikes and cars are highly complex bits of kit these days and despite pre-production testing there will always be issues that are not apparent until extended `real world' use. The recall problem is one that is more likely to affect buyers of new models as faults found in use will be designed out but some issues are not apparent until extended use. There is also the problem that BMW, in common with all vehicle builders, rely on sub-contractors and occasionally they get it wrong with faulty materials or a bad batch of parts. This is not a problem that can be found by testing, it not until a few vehicles fail that the fault becomes known.
A good example is the 1200GS recall to reroute the front ABS cable. I understand that there was no problem with the cable but BMW discovered that some tyre fitters were refitting wheels improperly. Hardly a BMW problem and not something that would come up in testing but BMW solved it. It is not until you get a few thousand bikes on the road and get them repaired or serviced by many different dealers and repairers that these problems become apparent.
My wife was suprised to get a recall notice on her CS a month after buying it second hand from a non-BMW dealer. It was for a potential fault on a tank seal and the bike was traced through DVLA. There was no problem but it gives confidence to know that a manufacturer takes the trouble to trace bikes and get them checked.
We could probaby avoid most of the recalls by going back to simple bikes with no ABS or servos, no hydraulic brakes, no fuel injection, no on board computers, theft alarms, immobilisers, gear indicators, fault warnings, power sockets, elctic starters, etc. etc. What we have left is a 1960s bike. They did not get recalled, they just broke down.
I don't see recalls as being the issue - mainly the bike stopping or dumping its oil on the ground or corroding.
As for testing, you should be able to test bikes so they are virtually niggle free. This involves a good pre-production test programme. Now BMW have revamped their entire range in about 36 months + new models. I'd suggest they'd skimped on some of the key elements of testing.
BMW blame a lot of their problems on sub-suppliers, but why do you think this happens?? Probably sourcing materials from the lowest bidder. Certainly not being as rigorous with the testing of sub-suppliers materials as they should.
BMW are not doing well at this, no matter how things are spun. I've just moved to a jap bike and had no problems at all. No corrosion, no breakdowns, no niggles and its not a 1960's bike (GSX-R1000). If the japanese can do it, so can BMW.
As for testing, you should be able to test bikes so they are virtually niggle free. This involves a good pre-production test programme. Now BMW have revamped their entire range in about 36 months + new models. I'd suggest they'd skimped on some of the key elements of testing.
BMW blame a lot of their problems on sub-suppliers, but why do you think this happens?? Probably sourcing materials from the lowest bidder. Certainly not being as rigorous with the testing of sub-suppliers materials as they should.
BMW are not doing well at this, no matter how things are spun. I've just moved to a jap bike and had no problems at all. No corrosion, no breakdowns, no niggles and its not a 1960's bike (GSX-R1000). If the japanese can do it, so can BMW.
Nobody is immune from problems.
The world of recall is full of blind alleys (in the consumers’ eyes) and lots of legislation. It is not as simple as saying, “Something does not work” or “It’s failed on my vehicle and on some other bloke’s I have heard about on the www.”
I used to be the reinsurance broker to a well known manufacturer of roller bearings. They reinsured, Products Guarantee and Recall cover for several millions of dollars. This was completely separate to their global General third party and Products liability cover, itself running into multiple millions of dollars of cover. In essence, they insured that their products would work and, very much more difficult, that their products would perform, ‘guaranteed’, to certain exacting standards, irrespective to the way the vehicle was treated. The tricky thing here is that a sub-component supplier (albeit a major one) is supplying products to a third party, to be used in a vehicle which, in turn, will be operated by someone else, God only knows how. If you look at the number of people who cannot work out what sort of oil to use just on this site I guess you can see where at least a part of the problem lies.
In short, a specific range of bearings failed, or might have failed, or never failed at all. These bearings were used in many of the major car producers’ lines (Ford, GM, Fiat, Renault, Saab etc). It was agreed (and this is not easy to do) that no recall was necessary. It was then agreed that the bearings would be changed as a part of the vehicles’ annual service routine. In fact, had you owned certain cars (and maybe some light trucks) in the range you may (or may probably not) have noticed that a routine service took longer than usual. This refit also embraced several lines of vehicles well outside of their warranty dates.
There is a lot of rubbish talked about what vehicle manufacturers, ‘Should do’ and / or ‘Don’t do’, with little realisation that failures do happen and are, thankfully, rarely, life threatening. Problems occur in various mass produced products (Perrier, Cadbury’s chocolate, motorcycles, cars, Egypt red – or whatever the colour was – toasters, light bulbs and, for those with a long enough memory, Fray Bentos corned beef and some tins of John West salmon).
If the failures are bad enough and / or too frequent:
(i) Nobody will buy the product. Anybody remember Mr Ratner? He only said his products were crap.
(ii) There will be an official recall with the manufacturers (and often their insurers) going to great lengths to track down the products, whether it’s a BuMW motorcycle or a bottle of pop. Fireblade speedometers, Yamaha R1 water pumps, Pan European engine mounts, my old Saab’s brakes etc. etc. etc.
The world of recall is full of blind alleys (in the consumers’ eyes) and lots of legislation. It is not as simple as saying, “Something does not work” or “It’s failed on my vehicle and on some other bloke’s I have heard about on the www.”
I used to be the reinsurance broker to a well known manufacturer of roller bearings. They reinsured, Products Guarantee and Recall cover for several millions of dollars. This was completely separate to their global General third party and Products liability cover, itself running into multiple millions of dollars of cover. In essence, they insured that their products would work and, very much more difficult, that their products would perform, ‘guaranteed’, to certain exacting standards, irrespective to the way the vehicle was treated. The tricky thing here is that a sub-component supplier (albeit a major one) is supplying products to a third party, to be used in a vehicle which, in turn, will be operated by someone else, God only knows how. If you look at the number of people who cannot work out what sort of oil to use just on this site I guess you can see where at least a part of the problem lies.
In short, a specific range of bearings failed, or might have failed, or never failed at all. These bearings were used in many of the major car producers’ lines (Ford, GM, Fiat, Renault, Saab etc). It was agreed (and this is not easy to do) that no recall was necessary. It was then agreed that the bearings would be changed as a part of the vehicles’ annual service routine. In fact, had you owned certain cars (and maybe some light trucks) in the range you may (or may probably not) have noticed that a routine service took longer than usual. This refit also embraced several lines of vehicles well outside of their warranty dates.
There is a lot of rubbish talked about what vehicle manufacturers, ‘Should do’ and / or ‘Don’t do’, with little realisation that failures do happen and are, thankfully, rarely, life threatening. Problems occur in various mass produced products (Perrier, Cadbury’s chocolate, motorcycles, cars, Egypt red – or whatever the colour was – toasters, light bulbs and, for those with a long enough memory, Fray Bentos corned beef and some tins of John West salmon).
If the failures are bad enough and / or too frequent:
(i) Nobody will buy the product. Anybody remember Mr Ratner? He only said his products were crap.
(ii) There will be an official recall with the manufacturers (and often their insurers) going to great lengths to track down the products, whether it’s a BuMW motorcycle or a bottle of pop. Fireblade speedometers, Yamaha R1 water pumps, Pan European engine mounts, my old Saab’s brakes etc. etc. etc.
im with gs monky on this one my two 1200s were a nightmare ive spent the last ten months back on jap bikes [dero and strom ] 17000 mile no problems servicing costs .. nil [oil filters pads ] and just toured norway back to back with a gs there nothing in it the jap bike does the job just as well
just raising links and fork springs it will stick with and pass the gs no problems at all as it is stronger on the top end eight and six thousand cheaper fully loaded per bike...bargain
i am now back solidly as a funtion over form person ..and staying there..
they[bmw] seem to have the idea just cos they recover and fix the bike everythings ok i just got fed up with going to the dealers to complain ..havnt seen one since
i just didnt want to book a ferry with the gs lost all confidence in the brand
put simply i have far more confidence i the two jap machines to get me to and back from where im travelling
there are to mant tales of woe with the 1200 and ownership out of warranty would be pure folly
still is a very good bike when it running though
gs and strom in norway
http://media.putfile.com/norway-in-a-nutshell--by-mcycle-
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