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Are the Chinese going to do what the Japanese did in the 70s ?
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Are the Chinese going to take over the bike market ?
- Thread starter leadfarmer
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They will. Just as with the EV car market. Flood the market with cheap bikes, from scooters to adventure bikes and cruisers, Harley/Indian copies. Then just sit back and watch other makes slowly dry up.
Probably.
They will sell cheap bikes until they get a percentage of the market then prices will rise, just like the Japs did.
As bikes go electric this will be accelerated (no pun intended) as the Chinese have a monopoly on that.
They will sell cheap bikes until they get a percentage of the market then prices will rise, just like the Japs did.
As bikes go electric this will be accelerated (no pun intended) as the Chinese have a monopoly on that.
No. The European bike industry is in better shape than it was in the 70's despite the Japs ruling the roost for a good while. Having said that there will be a lot of Chinese bikes on the road, same as there as lots of old gits who are quite happy wearing crimplene trousers
I'm not super sure.
The amount of Chinese (or Chinese owned) brands I see on the road lately is fairly high.
Even when I go to Italy (one of the largest European markets) there is a lot of Chinese bikes. Mostly because the lower salaries mean that buying a large adventure bike can be out of range for many and the Chinese brands are offering seemingly decent alternatives in the lower price bracket and clearly selling a lot.
Like it or not, there is still a bit of stigma when buying a Chinese bike. It is changing, slowly going away. I guess (I wasn't even born) same happened with the early jap bikes at the time.
European brands (and maybe Jap ones) will be niche brands for the wealthier...the rest will be happy chugging about on a chinese bike (give it 15 yrs and there'll be a just a tiny fraction of UK bikers left riding anyway....)
I don't think so.
Same with cars. Many folks like the premium brands (Audi, Merc, BMW, Jag etc) - these folk wouldn't be seen dead in a BYD or Jaecoo. My old office at work had a bit of a stigma associated in the car park - I remember a mate saying he would "never be seen in anything less than a VW"
I have to say my Merc is awesome. dip galvanised, tried and tested engine (OM654) and the proven 9-sp gearbox.
I fear BYD and jeacoo will be landfill in 10 years, whereas a decent European car will be only 30% of the way through its life
One of the guys in my "club" was looking for a new bike recently (on a budget) - I pointed out the well-priced VFR on this very forum, his response was "has to be a BMW mate" (he since bought an R1200RS).
For me, I will never own a chinese or korean car on principle.
Same with cars. Many folks like the premium brands (Audi, Merc, BMW, Jag etc) - these folk wouldn't be seen dead in a BYD or Jaecoo. My old office at work had a bit of a stigma associated in the car park - I remember a mate saying he would "never be seen in anything less than a VW"
I have to say my Merc is awesome. dip galvanised, tried and tested engine (OM654) and the proven 9-sp gearbox.
I fear BYD and jeacoo will be landfill in 10 years, whereas a decent European car will be only 30% of the way through its life
One of the guys in my "club" was looking for a new bike recently (on a budget) - I pointed out the well-priced VFR on this very forum, his response was "has to be a BMW mate" (he since bought an R1200RS).
For me, I will never own a chinese or korean car on principle.
I know a couple of people back in Italy that were in the "has to be a BMW mate" camp.
Met them after a few years, after they had kids, bigger place and bigger mortgage, decided to get back into biking to do something at weekends, and all they could do sensibly (if you really want a new bike) was Chinese adventure bikes. Not that there is an issue with that.
Keep in mind we are talking drastically lower average salaries than here.
That's the entry point they have, and are smartly using.
We'll see what happens.
I personally do not care much. I have zero budget (brassic
) and stick to my vehicles for a decade or two usually
Met them after a few years, after they had kids, bigger place and bigger mortgage, decided to get back into biking to do something at weekends, and all they could do sensibly (if you really want a new bike) was Chinese adventure bikes. Not that there is an issue with that.
Keep in mind we are talking drastically lower average salaries than here.
That's the entry point they have, and are smartly using.
We'll see what happens.
I personally do not care much. I have zero budget (brassic
) and stick to my vehicles for a decade or two usually
I think the youngsters don't have the stigma.
Young folk are happy to buy Chinese bikes, MG cars and BYD etc
It wasn't that long ago people scoffed at buying a Kia.
Now they are all over the place.
Out of interest why do you lump South Korea in with China?
There's a big difference, Japanese - 'Jap crap' - bikes were game changers with modern manufacturing standards, electric start, vibration free, multi-cylindered, OHC, oil tight, disc brakes, oh and reliable ... much ink was spilt by the dinosaurs in the press and many a pub argument was had - riders drank alcohol back then
- but when the dam broke it broke with a vengeance, the UK manufacturing was all but finished within about two years of the first Honda 4 if I remember right.I don't see the same degree of change now - just a matter of price ...
I do agree, but today's consumer (mostly) doesn't see this.
I can understand the aversion to Chinese brands on grounds of principle due to their human rights record and economic practices.
I don't get the anti S.Korea thing. They are up there with Skoda and Seat, brands we used to deride a few decades ago.
How do you feel about Triumph bikes? Mostly made in Thailand?
Although the "quality" of many European brands is pretty well a marketing illusion with the only real benefit over the Chinese brands being a better availability of spare parts.
Yes, they are.
While the European bike industry might be in decent shape, the number of bikes being sold is less than half that of 50 years ago. In the mid 70s, 270,000-300,000 new bikes were sold per year. Last year it was 116,000. Us oldies might still shy away from Chinese bikes in the way our parents did from jap crap, as they called it. Will under 30s shy away from Chinese bikes when they are a fraction of the price of established brands? I doubt it. Even some of us oldies are looking at Voge, CF Moto, Kove etc, with their levels of equipment and thinking they seem good value for money. Time will tell regarding reliability, build quality and warranty support. Teenagers seem to have no problems buying Chinese scooters at half the price of the Japanese equivalent.
European bikes will continue to sell, especially premium brands. Large capacity BMWs, Ducatis, Triumphs and so on will sell to older riders with bigger budgets and time to ride them. The Chinese seem to be targeting mid sized bikes at present and undercutting major manufacturers by thousands of pounds. Anyone on a budget would be daft not to look at Voge, CF Moto etc. Will my next bike be Chinese? I haven't ruled it out.
European bikes will continue to sell, especially premium brands. Large capacity BMWs, Ducatis, Triumphs and so on will sell to older riders with bigger budgets and time to ride them. The Chinese seem to be targeting mid sized bikes at present and undercutting major manufacturers by thousands of pounds. Anyone on a budget would be daft not to look at Voge, CF Moto etc. Will my next bike be Chinese? I haven't ruled it out.
These Chinese bods strike me as clever people. I wonder if they're clever enough to make a 500cc V4 two stroke, that can fly through all of the Euro' emission/noise crap, and come in at less than (say) £15K?
Build that and we would soon see how 'dead' the motorcycle industry is.
Form an orderly queue Gents -
Build that and we would soon see how 'dead' the motorcycle industry is.
Form an orderly queue Gents -
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Indeed
There are already a few Taiwanese brands such as Kymco or Sym that are well established in the scooter market and have been for many years
I think Chinese brands will become far more widespread if they can demonstrate decent reliability and after sales service
They might actually do some good to the bike market, if they are cheap enough to be affordable to young new customers who, as you say, are not necessarily tied to “traditional” European or Japanese brands
Whilst not as attractive as the car market, the Chinese will quickly refine their motorcycle offerings & squeeze the European & US manufacturers.
I hear many prepared to protest that they will never buy Chinese as a matter of principle. Much the same 50 year back during the Japanese onslaught, but it's a promise that will likely get broken if a rider wants to remain in the mass market. We all know that ideally HMG & the EU would like to see most motorcycles legislated off our roads, so I wouldn't discount the introduction of some crafty tariff arrangements, applicable to larger capacity machines in particular, as part of the 2035 EV agenda.
I hear many prepared to protest that they will never buy Chinese as a matter of principle. Much the same 50 year back during the Japanese onslaught, but it's a promise that will likely get broken if a rider wants to remain in the mass market. We all know that ideally HMG & the EU would like to see most motorcycles legislated off our roads, so I wouldn't discount the introduction of some crafty tariff arrangements, applicable to larger capacity machines in particular, as part of the 2035 EV agenda.
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