Are the Chinese going to take over the bike market ?

[oldenoughtoknowbetter]

my 1977 Datsun 120Y was much better at 10 years old than the Ford Capri and mk1 Escort that preceded it.

Bet it was a blue one!

 

[wessie]

Bet it was a blue one!

yes, a darker metallic blue not turquoise. Previous owner had resprayed it.

unlike the two Fords it never needed welding for MOTs and remained waterproof so no mushrooms growing in the carpet.

 

[oldenoughtoknowbetter]

yes, a darker metallic blue not turquoise. Previous owner had resprayed it.

unlike the two Fords it never needed welding for MOTs and remained waterproof so no mushrooms growing in the carpet.

Think I only ever saw blue ones!

 

[leadfarmer]

Previous owner had resprayed it.

Yep

 

[Larry Langford]

The o/p has raised an interesting question. For the past few decades (!) I've run a small workshop repairing my own and other folks' bikes of all makes and origins. Probably around 15 years or so ago I started to turn away what many would call classic Japanese bikes, due to poor quality of metals used in their construction. Back in the 70s this was referred to "monkey metal" but expressions like that are no longer PC. I'm not arguing that early Jap bikes didn't run smoothly and efficiently but when they did go wrong, the quality of the materials used could be a problem. Chewed-up heads on fasteners and snapped cylinder head studs were commonplace and could give rise to some real problems. Obviously, the more recent Japanese stuff has upped its game but shit sticks. My present bikes are 4 BMWs, a KTM 1290GT and a Ducati 916SP, so as you can see I stay well clear of oriental stuff, due to my personal past experiences. Other folks will have different experiences and of course different preferences.
I have a mate who runs a commercial motorcycle workshop and for some time, he refused work on Chinese made bikes, for pretty much the same reasons I had, several years earlier. Life goes on and that now might have changed, I'm not sure.
Quite recently, it was in the news that some BYD, Jaecoe and MG cars were experiencing some quite severe early corrosion of structural components of cars only 2 or 3 years old. Others of the same makes and age had not. A couple of years or so ago a mate and I were looking at a new Chinese bike at the NEC and noticed that one of the welds on the subframe had missed its mark by around 2mm, leaving what appeared to be an unsupported joint.
So the point is that maybe the Chinese will up their game, as the Japs did but there might well be some pain in the meantime. Like anything I suppose you can be lucky or unlucky. People have had several issues with KTM 1290s but the one I have has probably been the best bike I've ever had. It's now 10 years old, well used but nil signs of corrosion. The only problem was a sticky exhaust flap, which has since been removed.
So it's all down to experience. If enough riders buy Chinese bikes (or cars) which are reliable and long-lasting then they'll buy more and if so, the future motorcycle industry leaders might well be the Chinese. But if many have bad experiences then they won't prevail. I see it as simple as that.
I think that the jury's still out on this one.

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Actually, you have the japanese cheap steel thing off by about 10 to 15 years, by even the early seventies, Japanese steel was very good. I'm old enough to have experienced this. We had many bikes during that time period and most were just fine. During the seventies the brand Bultaco developed a reputation for cheap steel, but blazing performance. If you had an astro, and it held together, you were probably going to win the flat track. My dad had a 250 pursang, and he managed to break the woodruff key out of the crankshaft, that drove the primary. He was trying to test the clutch. He took it into work and silver soldered it back together and sold it. He was a machinist/ tool and die inspector/calibrator at rocky flats, and was very well versed in metallurgy, as was the entire mc community at the time, for the most part.
I think the biggest improvements in metallurgy over all have been with AL alloys and the use of TI. Back in the 60s the clutch levers would break so easily and the grain shown in the break was huge. Nowadays the stuff they do with AL is hard to believe it's the same metal, especially in cycling, with the thompson AL company and there supreme quality metals ....
Back to the subject .... buy UK, the job you save might be your own ..... The plebs need jobs, to enable a vibrant country. I'm proposing that the trade with other countries like china is in fact a large part of the social decay you see in former industrial countries, detroit, sheffield and so on ..... Causality/realism is not popular ......

 

[Neil W]

Fair comment, I have replaced quite a few hydrostatic and dry Mini rear subframes and in some cases the back panel the subframe attaches to from corrosion.

Not just Japanese I inherited a 1975 mk1 Escort Estate , I did my test in it in 1980 and it was scrapped with terminal rust in 1981 , everything was rotten , inner and outer front wings , rear suspension mounts , front and rear valances and the floor pans (bonnet was good though ) .

Even as late as 1993 you were seeing 1990 Ford Orion Ghia's failing their first or second MOT due to terminal rust in the front bulkhead

 

[oldenoughtoknowbetter]

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Actually, you have the japanese cheap steel thing off by about 10 to 15 years, by even the early seventies, Japanese steel was very good. I'm old enough to have experienced this. We had many bikes during that time period and most were just fine. During the seventies the brand Bultaco developed a reputation for cheap steel, but blazing performance. If you had an astro, and it held together, you were probably going to win the flat track. My dad had a 250 pursang, and he managed to break the woodruff key out of the crankshaft, that drove the primary. He was trying to test the clutch. He took it into work and silver soldered it back together and sold it. He was a machinist/ tool and die inspector/calibrator at rocky flats, and was very well versed in metallurgy, as was the entire mc community at the time, for the most part.
I think the biggest improvements in metallurgy over all have been with AL alloys and the use of TI. Back in the 60s the clutch levers would break so easily and the grain shown in the break was huge. Nowadays the stuff they do with AL is hard to believe it's the same metal, especially in cycling, with the thompson AL company and there supreme quality metals ....
Back to the subject .... buy UK, the job you save might be your own ..... The plebs need jobs, to enable a vibrant country. I'm proposing that the trade with other countries like china is in fact a large part of the social decay you see in former industrial countries, detroit, sheffield and so on ..... Causality/realism is not popular ......

Yes, it's the early stuff I'm talking about. Remember the lethal chromed brake discs on Hondas? And the paper-thin chrome mudguards which rusted through in a matter of months. Engine cases so thin that you could crack them torquing up the cover screws! Those were the days.

 

[Engineer]

Others are happy to blindly buy a cheap bike with an expensive price tag , as though it’s somehow better

You miss the point, it is about where the money is going.

 

[oldenoughtoknowbetter]

You miss the point, it is about where the money is going.

Yes, but someone has to pay for all the nukes and hardware on display at the recent Beijing military parade. Why not us?

 

[wessie]

Nissan has signed a non-binding agreement to start assembling Chinese EVs from Chery, possibly as early as 2027.
https://uk.nissannews.com/en-GB/rel...nal-uk-passenger-vehicles-at-sunderland-plant
We became reliant on jobs from Japanese car firms decades ago but those factories have either closed (Honda) or struggling (Nissan). We are more likely to have jobs in the future from these Chinese firms than retaining jobs with Stellantis, Toyota and Nissan. Can't be any worse than relying on warehouses owned by Jeff Bezos.

 

[Engineer]

Nissan has signed a non-binding agreement to start assembling Chinese EVs from Chery, possibly as early as 2027.
https://uk.nissannews.com/en-GB/rel...nal-uk-passenger-vehicles-at-sunderland-plant
We became reliant on jobs from Japanese car firms decades ago but those factories have either closed (Honda) or struggling (Nissan). We are more likely to have jobs in the future from these Chinese firms than retaining jobs with Stellantis, Toyota and Nissan. Can't be any worse than relying on warehouses owned by Jeff Bezos.

If we do not mind becoming workers for Chinese owned companies - the long term effects are China increases it power over all of us. Do we care?

 

[wessie]

If we do not mind becoming workers for Chinese owned companies - the long term effects are China increases it power over all of us. Do we care?

We might care, but will me avoiding buying a kettle made in China make any difference in the face of globalised commerce?

I'm just listening to Radio 4, Bottom Line, about trainers. The innovators in materials and manufacturing techniques are in China. Yet making the trainers is too expensive in China and they outsource it to Vietnam and Cambodia.

You seem to be trying to close the stable door a bit too late, old fruit.

 

[Engineer]

We might care, but will me avoiding buying a kettle made in China make any difference in the face of globalised commerce?

I'm just listening to Radio 4, Bottom Line, about trainers. The innovators in materials and manufacturing techniques are in China. Yet making the trainers is too expensive in China and they outsource it to Vietnam and Cambodia.

You seem to be trying to close the stable door a bit too late, old fruit.

Do you care?

 

[wessie]

Do you care?

A very subjective matter. How does one evaluate it?

All I can say is that I probably do not care to the extent I may have done in the past. As I have expressed in other threads, I have got to the point where I am getting on with enjoying retirement with as few stresses as possible, after spending my time resolving troubles for others in my family and professionally.

I have direct experience of the impact of globalisation when my job at Xerox was outsourced to Hungary in 2002. I had no power to change that decision and I have minimal agency to affect global commerce now. I'm certainly not going to delude myself that the motorcycle I bought last year that was supposedly "made in Italy" does not contain hundreds of components and whole sub-assemblies made in China.

 

[Engineer]

A very subjective matter. How does one evaluate it?

All I can say is that I probably do not care to the extent I may have done in the past. As I have expressed in other threads, I have got to the point where I am getting on with enjoying retirement with as few stresses as possible, after spending my time resolving troubles for others in my family and professionally.

I have direct experience of the impact of globalisation when my job at Xerox was outsourced to Hungary in 2002. I had no power to change that decision and I have minimal agency to affect global commerce now. I'm certainly not going to delude myself that the motorcycle I bought last year that was supposedly "made in Italy" does not contain hundreds of components and whole sub-assemblies made in China.

I am enjoying retirement too now - however whenever I need to purchase something, I try to give my money to UK or European manufacturers.

Example - I bought one of the well known brands of toothpaste last week - and was surprised to see that it was made in China!

 

[Guru Gora]

You’ll need a filling now, cheap Chinese shite…….