Bad starting and the RID oil temperature gauge

[GuidoT]

My old 1100 has had problems starting recently. Usually when cold, but sometimes if it has been left for a half an hour or so. OK, there could be, are, lots of reasons why this might be happening, but I've noticed that when I turn the key, if the old temp gauge shows 10 bars instead of the more appropriate none, then the bike doesn't start. Switching on and off until the gauge shows no bars and then pressing the starter button usually works.

So, the questions is, is the RID oil temp gauge used as a diagnostic or is it a fail safe gone wrong due to a malfunctioning temp sensor stopping the engine if it thinks the oil temp is too high?

-- Jeff

 

[oblertone]

Check the wiring harness ...

... as it leaves the bottom of the ignition switch. Cut the cable tie and jiggle it about, if the condition shows up, or cures itself then you've found the culprit

ps - When you've replaced it; don't cable tie it to the bottom of the switch housing !

 

[GuidoT]

Thanks ... I'll have a jiggle.
--Jeff

 

[mazaisti]

I have bit similar problem. Temp gauge shows sometimes 2-4 bars before and after starting. Sometimes is shows zero bars like like it should. Also when engine is warm it can show 3-6 bar that can change rapidly.

This started last summer when the bike had been outside couple of days in rain without cover. It started reluctantly and after couple of kilometers driving it died and wouldn't start. I thought it was about water in some wrong place and let it dry few hours and after that it started ok, but temp gauge has worked like described. After a while the problem seemed to cure by itself, but it came back later.

I haven't tested the rid with potentiometer to check if the problem is in display or in temp sensor or somewhere else (like in ignition switch oblertone mentioned).

Have to try if good jiggle would shed more light to problem

 

[mazaisti]

I gave a jiggle to the wire and my bike turned turned totally off for couple of seconds :O So there must be something wrong in ignition switch or wiring. I jiggled hard couple of times more but nothing unusual happened.

Jiggle didn't seem to have any effect to temperature gauge readings.

 

[GuidoT]

Oh dear, jiggling doesn't seem to work, or at least it's as effective as turning the ignition on and off a few times.

The problem seems worse after a long run (400+ miles on Monday for a few RBR landmarks in the midlands and Wales). No problems on Monday, lots of stopping to take pictures and starting again with no problems. It even started well after coasting? into Knighton almost out of fuel.

But, Tuesday morning, it didn't want to start, well I didn't either The same symptoms :
Turn the ignition switch and the oil temp shows all the bars. There isn't the usual noise from the fuel pump(?) when the key is turned, so it's hardly surprising that it doesn't start (if the noise is the fuel pump). A few turns on/off and the oil temp shows no bars and there's the noise for the pump. It might start, but if it doesn't feel like it, the RID oil temp starts filling the bars.

So ... what is likely to be the problem and why should the oil temp gauge have this mysterious ability to stop the bike from starting. Ok, it probably isn't stopping it, but what is it doing?

-- Jeff

 

[MattW]

Oh dear, jiggling doesn't seem to work, or at least it's as effective as turning the ignition on and off a few times.

The problem seems worse after a long run (400+ miles on Monday for a few RBR landmarks in the midlands and Wales). No problems on Monday, lots of stopping to take pictures and starting again with no problems. It even started well after coasting? into Knighton almost out of fuel.

But, Tuesday morning, it didn't want to start, well I didn't either The same symptoms :
Turn the ignition switch and the oil temp shows all the bars. There isn't the usual noise from the fuel pump(?) when the key is turned, so it's hardly surprising that it doesn't start (if the noise is the fuel pump). A few turns on/off and the oil temp shows no bars and there's the noise for the pump. It might start, but if it doesn't feel like it, the RID oil temp starts filling the bars.

So ... what is likely to be the problem and why should the oil temp gauge have this mysterious ability to stop the bike from starting. Ok, it probably isn't stopping it, but what is it doing?

-- Jeff

I think the the oil temp gauge is a side effect rather than a cause - as far as I'm aware oil temp can't stop the bike running. I'd imagine the same fault is causing your RID issues and your starting problems.

As others have said, the ignition switch or switch wiring harness is a possible culprit - a known fault on older 1100's as the harness gets old and brittle. My best guess is that you've got an intermittent short somewhere in the upper harness (possibly a leak to earth?) which is causing the motronic to have an occasional brain fart. I'd remove the switch harness (instructions on here - do a search) and check it really well. Failing that, it's probably worth removing the tank and carefully checking and cleaning all the various harness connectors which live under there (get a can of aerosol contact cleaner - makes life much easier). Look for corroded connector pins / bad connections in all the male and female sections - a bit of a tedious job, but just work through it methodically. Once you've cleaned each connector a squirt (or fine paintbrush application) of ACF50 into each connector before remaking them won't hurt. While you're under there go over the loom carefully (especially the sections which flex with steering / suspension movement).

I guess if you were really unlucky it could be the motronic itself but as far as I'm aware it either works or it doesn't and isn't prone to intermittent faults (others may know more about this?).

As you've discovered intermittent electrical faults are real pain in the ar*e but you'll get there in the end - good luck

 

[GuidoT]

Thanks MattW. I'll check/clean the connections at the weekend. It's all working OK at the moment. This could be due to squirting a the remains of a can of contact cleaner into the ignition key hole. Or it could just have decided to work again.

 

[Captain_Jack]

1150 ADV with similar symptoms...

Hi all,

So my 2005 1150 adv has suddenly become hard to start and the RID temp gauge is erratic. I initially thought the battery might be duff as it's the original and I flattened it trying to start the bike but after charging and a run it shows 12.7 volts. The charging circuit shows 13.8 volts at idle.
When I switch on the ignition, the RID temp lights up all bars (which is very odd). At sub 2500 revs the RID temp gauge is all over the place. At over 2500 revs the gauge stabilises. The bike runs OK although it does seem to bang and fart more than usual (no CAT and "Y" piece).
The mass of connectors under the tank are grubby but regularly squirted with WD40 - so no corrosion. I have HID lights but these were fitted years ago and they have never been a problem.
Any ideas would be gratefully received

Cheers

 

[Packer]

Similar story as for the 1100. The wiring from the ignition switch is a prime suspect, the insulation becomes brittle on the individual wires and water can lie in the outer sleeve causing short circuits.

Next up is under the tank is a rats nest of plugs and wires. Get some electrical contact cleaner and an old toothbrush. Carefully disassemble the plugs remembering that at 6 years old the plastic may have started to become brittle. You will almost certainly find some badly corroded contacts. If it doesn't solve the problem at least it's deferred another one.

Another point of possible corrosion is the main earth point to the top of the bell housing below the battery/Servo-ABS carrier tray. It is an Allen bolt that just clamps the earth wires to the aluminium and is completely unprotected. Unfortunately it's not so easy to access.

These bikes are getting on a bit and if it's been used extensively through winter salt will have had a seriously detrimental effect.

 

[davegs]

Ign switch

Ther is a short peice opf wiring harness between the ing switch and the main loom, this is available as a spare and plugs in both ends. Do a search and all will be revealed.

 

[Captain_Jack]

Found it!!

Hi All,

Thanks very much for the replies.
I think I found the problem. There is a big thick part of the loom which dives under the front left corner of the Battery "box". This part of the battery box is basically a flat steel plate. Looks like the loom has been pressed up against the edge of this plate and after 6 years just about gone through the loom insulation. It's very tight and I can't really get to the loom without removing the battery box - does anyone know how hard that is to do?
As it is now, I can bung on some insulation and protection from future abrasion which should do the trick.
I'm pleased to have tracked it down - thanks again everyone!

Cheers