BMW quality dropping

[mw3230]

I think you, and most, know that BMW is not a premium product...but they do make good things and have a very, very clever and expensive (short term loss for long term gain) marketing department.
If they put a celeb on a bike and sent them to the shops they'll be covered by a massive tech back up and an all encompassing contract which forbids the mention of anything even slightly negative toward the mechanicals, do you really think two 1150's got round the world without blowing the final drives, they didn't, but no one will ever be allowed to tell you that...it's all about the contract and the marketing.

I love my TC GSA, it's great, but I don't expect it to be any more or less reliable than anything else I have owned, I put 40k on a Ducati MS1000 in a year (2006) and it never went wrong, it fucking should've, if you believe all you read, haven't put 40k on a BMW yet without it having to go into a dealer for something to be fixed! But I like it.

You make some good points. The only thing I disagree with is the supposed attraction to the brand resulting from two pampered, fully supported tosspots, err I mean celebs, travelling around the world with a large out-of-shot entourage and a tribe of fixers.

The thought of being likened to them is enough to make me by a Harley ... well not quite but you know what I mean

 

[Deleted account 211025001]

It's nothing to do with quality control.

It's the laws that limit what can be used in the metal finishing. No more lead. Mostly water based coatings.

Nope, I don't believe that to be the case. Other makes are bound by the same regs yet don't have the same issues. Yes low volatile paints are not as good a an epoxy two pack BUT they are pretty good now ~ same shit went down in the print industry with inks, for the same reasons and had similar issues initially. The tech has since moved on and all is good again.

If it were down to paint formulation how comes other premium bikes rarely have the same issues?

Look at all the WC's with paint bubbling up on the engines UNDER the paint and sub frames wearing the paint away with no sign of an etch/primer coat. That is poor surface prep and poor paint application, no more no less

Andres

 

[Arsey]

Nope, I don't believe that to be the case. Other makes are bound by the same regs yet don't have the same issues. Yes low volatile paints are not as good a an epoxy two pack BUT they are pretty good now ~ same shit went down in the print industry with inks, for the same reasons and had similar issues initially. The tech has since moved on and all is good again.

If it were down to paint formulation how comes other premium bikes rarely have the same issues?

Look at all the WC's with paint bubbling up on the engines UNDER the paint and sub frames wearing the paint away with no sign of an etch/primer coat. That is poor surface prep and poor paint application, no more no less

Andres

Damn.

I agree with all of that

 

[RedRick Esq.]

Nope, I don't believe that to be the case. Other makes are bound by the same regs yet don't have the same issues. Yes low volatile paints are not as good a an epoxy two pack BUT they are pretty good now ~ same shit went down in the print industry with inks, for the same reasons and had similar issues initially. The tech has since moved on and all is good again.

If it were down to paint formulation how comes other premium bikes rarely have the same issues?

Look at all the WC's with paint bubbling up on the engines UNDER the paint and sub frames wearing the paint away with no sign of an etch/primer coat. That is poor surface prep and poor paint application, no more no less

Andres

I agree fully

It is down to what BMW think they can get away with on their best selling bike. Punters still buy them.

My XR is a different story, not such a big seller but the finish and paint thickness etc is first rate. That may change as the sold numbers and years into production increase of course

The rear rack thingy on the XR looks to be exactly the same as the GS except that on the XR it is metal but the GS plastic

It makes you wonder at the accountant engineers does it not

 

[casbar]

Nope, I don't believe that to be the case. Other makes are bound by the same regs yet don't have the same issues. Yes low volatile paints are not as good a an epoxy two pack BUT they are pretty good now ~ same shit went down in the print industry with inks, for the same reasons and had similar issues initially. The tech has since moved on and all is good again.

If it were down to paint formulation how comes other premium bikes rarely have the same issues?

Look at all the WC's with paint bubbling up on the engines UNDER the paint and sub frames wearing the paint away with no sign of an etch/primer coat. That is poor surface prep and poor paint application, no more no less

Andres

You do, My 26k Harley had paint falling off. Honda are apparently having issues with paint on their frames. If you frequented other bike forums, its amazing how many other makes are having issues.

 

[Deleted account 211025001]

You do, My 26k Harley had paint falling off. Honda are apparently having issues with paint on their frames. If you frequented other bike forums, its amazing how many other makes are having issues.

Equally, it's amazing how many are not having problems and Harley's are not especially renowned for the the quality of their finish now are they

My four year old Tomos hasn't had any issues with it's finish

Andres

 

[Davy F]

Most don't recognise the difference between a premium product and a premium priced product.....

 

[RedRick Esq.]

My four year old Tomos hasn't had any issues with it's finish

Andres

It does have some similarity to a GS LC though does it not

 

[Deleted account 211025001]

It does have some similarity to a GS LC though does it not

Performance

Andres

Edit: Certainly not mileage as it's probably done more than most similar aged WC's

 

[RedRick Esq.]

Performance

Andres

Well played sah !

 

[Nice 'n' Fat]

I personally have never had a problem but I know some years ago BMW sourced some of their work out to Spain and I believe, some on here will know, that the strict criteria of build quality wasn't quite up to their teutonic standards ... paintwork and centre stand construction but to name a couple .. I believed it was all resolved with Pedro being told to get a grip or their orders would go elsewhere .... anyone know the details ?

And apparently the chicken that McDonalds use in their McNuggets is all the shit bits like beaks and feet and stuff

Fatbloke down the pub told me

 

[signxman]

I'm quite new to BMW (bikes)...I'm riding a 15 plate GSA and think its really well put together, Having owned a KTM990 Adventure and a Triumph 1200 Tiger before the GSA, I can't honestly say that I can see a huge differences in build quality - design wise the KTM would survive a drop better than the other two, and haven taken all three off road the KTM was the only one that inspired confidence...the Triumph was just too top heavy.

As an all-round bike the GSA has hit the spot for me and seems to be wearing OK, the Triumph showed little sign of wear other than the engine bolts furring and the KTM suffered from a little rust on the spokes...none of that would stop me looking at any of these brands again.

 

[Mr Derek]

I personally have never had a problem but I know some years ago BMW sourced some of their work out to Spain and I believe, some on here will know, that the strict criteria of build quality wasn't quite up to their teutonic standards ...

My Honda Varadero was built in Spain and the build quality and finish was superb. I'm not sure the problem was with Spanish workers, more that BMW seem to have lowered the benchmark for acceptable quality

 

[MikeO]

It's nothing to do with quality control.

It's the laws that limit what can be used in the metal finishing. No more lead. Mostly water based coatings.

I think this is part of the problem. But you must notice the difference in quality of fasteners, for example, between an eighties bike and a more modern one? I certainly found refurbing my 1983 RT very easy - no chewed up bolts or poor quality materials. A very different tale from my 1150...

 

[Bendy toy]

Seat cars look well built.

Maybe BMW forgot that we get what we pay for.

Lead hasn't been used in paint for 50 years.

Solvent based paints are thinner so better soak into the metal before they dry. Water based seem to be like a (not very well stuck) stick on skin.

 

[Deleted account 190920001]

It's nothing to do with water based paint. Cars have been painted in it for years now and you don't see them rusting in a hurry. Infact they rust less now than they ever have. It's the cheap way they are using it that's the problem. Poor to nonexistent prep!

 

[duckspeed]

It's nothing to do with water based paint. Cars have been painted in it for years now and you don't see them rusting in a hurry. Infact they rust less now than they ever have. It's the cheap way they are using it that's the problem. Poor to nonexistent prep!

Painting freshly machined components with sharp edges that the finish can't possibly adhere to.

 

[Kitsilano]

It's nothing to do with quality control.

It's the laws that limit what can be used in the metal finishing. No more lead. Mostly water based coatings.

The same thing is happening with aircraft primer/topcoats....Apparently (from an ex-aircraft engineering friend, large fleet, long-haul like Arsey's bus company): "...The best paint systems are etch primed and there is a chemical reaction when the paint cures which produces a brilliant surface. So good in fact that the paint system was able to show up underlying metal damage (cracks!). Those paints were deemed cancer causing (for those without protection) and banned...." .

 

[Pops]

I have a 57 plate GS which I don't spend a lot of time cleaning as I'd rather be out riding it and I'm basically lazy.
It has no corrosion anywhere and the paint is in pristine condition. I intend to keep this bike as my last ride as I love the GS but would be dissuaded from buying anything newer due to the continued dropping of quality.

 

[deangsadv]

I work in large scale manufacturing which includes machining and treatments (paint) In the last few years things have changed dramatically right across our processes mainly due to changes in legislation, which is a good thing. Some of the things that have changed include the coolant we use when machining, the old coolant would just rince of with cold water, the new coolant requires purpose built cleaning facillities with de ionised water and a massive amount of elbow grease to achive the same cleanliness prior to paint. The water based paint we now use has vastly different aplication, flash off and cure cycles than where previously required, with a lot of added testing carried out to ensure quality is maintained, this costs! Our products carry a 30 year guarantee.
BMW will be under the same constraints with the same issues, but only need to get through 2 years and offer some good will to those that slip through.