Bosnia - is comprehensive insurance possible?

[freddyfruitbat]

A group of us are planning on a trip to the Balkans this summer, including Slovenia, Croatia and Bosnia-Herzegovina. I've read up loads about the insurance situation, including this forum (so hope I'm not asking an FAQ), but I'm struggling to come up with any solution which gives me fully comp insurance in Bosnia, which is non-EU. I'm aware that I'll likely have to buy a third-party-only policy from the border guards upon entry which will cover me legally, but I'm concerned about possible loss or damage to my £11,000 bike by theft, accident or vandalism. My UK insurance policy renewed a while ago, so I used the opportunity to have a good root around looking for a policy which would cover me in Bosnia, but came up with none and ran out of time, so just stayed with Bennetts.

I've come across several UK insurers who say they will cover Bosnia, but when you push them on it or read the small print, you find its only TPO cover only. In that I include several riders (my co-travellers!) who were fully in the belief that their paperwork extended their insurance to Bosnia,... but it absolutely didn't!

Does anyone have experience with this? I'm quite a risk-averse type, and I must admit this issue is really beginning to weigh on my mind and overshadow my looking forward what should be a fantastic trip.

 

[AustinW]

The MiB says Bosnia is a party to the “Green Card Free circulation Area”. https://www.mib.org.uk/driving-abroad/green-card-information-for-the-public/. See para 3.

Slovenia and Croatia are in the eu so you are fully covered anyway.

I’m pretty sure that means you have the minimum cover required by Bosnia’s laws. Now, what that level of cover is I haven’t found out yet, but I’m pretty sure it’s going to be something like third party only or even third party injury only. That means you’re at least legal and don’t need to buy border insurance. Bennett’s have so far refused to issue me with a green card for Bosnia though for proof and did actually say I had zero cover there. I need to phone them again.

I’m planning a trip passing through the Balkans this year so will continue to do some digging. A couple of years ago bikesure were quoting me and I asked them the question about insurance in the Balkans. Their answer was, we probably will insure you but we won’t know for sure that the insurance company will extend to there until very close to the relevant dates. Then Covid happened so I never found out.

Please keep this thread updated if you find out more.

 

[freddyfruitbat]

@AustinW yes, your experience/research exactly mirrors what I've found. And you're right that 'Green Card' means minimum legal cover only (unless your policy documents specify otherwise). Bennett's also won't issue me with a hard-copy Green Card as they say it's 'unnecessary'; but I'm reliably informed that unless you do produce one at the Bosnian border you'll be compelled to buy their insurance - 20 Euros or so (I've heard of people printing their UK insurance certificate on green paper and having success with that, but who knows!). Frankly I'm not losing sleep over the border insurance con; it's more that I want comprehensive insurance...

 

[wessie]

Seems Bosnia joined the "don't need a green card" thing in 2021 but I guess that news will take a while to filter down to the border guards, who probably get a consideration for the number of policies sold

https://www.sterling-insurance.co.uk/green-card/bosnia/ and https://www.aviva.co.uk/faq/answer/brexit/5302/ mention B&H so might be worth speaking to them.

Sterling have bike cover in the drop down list but Aviva does not (dim memory of them pulling out of bike insurance)

 

[freddyfruitbat]

Seems Bosnia joined the "don't need a green card" thing in 2021 but I guess that news will take a while to filter down to the border guards, who probably get a consideration for the number of policies sold

Mm, when a friend did the crossing a few years back, the guards had run out of the forms/certificates, and disappeared off to the local Prontaprint before returning with a sheaf of very poor quality photocopies, and resuming collection of cash from the incoming bikers. Looked as dodgy as, apparently, but what can you do?

https://www.sterling-insurance.co.uk/green-card/bosnia/ and https://www.aviva.co.uk/faq/answer/brexit/5302/ mention B&H so might be worth speaking to them.

Thanks, I'd already been on Sterling's site before actually, but noted that:

"A Green Card is documented proof that a British motorist has the adequate cover legally required for driving in Bosnia and Herzegovina.
The benefits of getting a policy with Sterling:
Prices start from £350
Minimum cover legally required for your trip to Bosnia and Herzegovina
[...]"

So it appeared to me that all you'd get for at least £350 is TPO cover, again. Have dropped them a line anyway, and will report back here if there's anything to report

 

[wessie]

a quick google shows Sterling is a brand owned by Adrian Flux, who also own Bikesure

 

[Tetley]

Following with interest, heading there in April on the mighty airhead.

 

[Bill-H]

@ I'm reliably informed that unless you do produce one at the Bosnian border you'll be compelled to buy their insurance - 20 Euros or so

Crossed into Bosnia last October from Croatia and only asked for V5 and our passports, not interested in anything else.
I've never been asked to produce evidence of vehicle or personal insurance when crossing several times between Slovenia, Croatia, Montenegro, Bosnia Herzegovina, Albania and Greece, or for that matter into France and Spain from the UK. Border posts between Slovenia and Croatia are now normally unmanned since Slovenia joined Schengen on 1st Jan this year. Not saying you wouldn't be asked, just I never have over several years of travel between the countries above.
I'm told - but can't verify, that NFU will cover vehicle insurance for many of the countries usually 'crossed out' by most insurers on their green cards.

 

[John Armstrong]

Crossed into Bosnia last October from Croatia and only asked for V5 and our passports, not interested in anything else.

That was my experience last June bouncing between Bosnia, Croatia and Montenegro.

 

[AustinW]

A little more digging…. For the purposes of discussion the Balkan area seems to fall into four categories fir insurance:

1. Greece, Bulgaria, Croatia, Slovenia are all in the EU so your normal uk cover applies there within the time limits specified in your policy. (90 days seems to be the norm now - hey a brexit benefit, it used to be less than that).

2. Bosnia, Montenegro and Serbia are all in the Green Card Free Circulation area so you shouldn’t get asked to buy border insurance. Refuse if you do. One would need to ask your insurance company/broker for what cover you actually have but unless your policy explicitly names these countries it’ll probably drop to Third Party Only. Unless your insurance company will issue a variation to your policy.

Serbia seems to be an exception in this group and is named as being within the geographical limits for my Bennett’s policy and is also named on all the other insurance policies I have looked at so far. This means your normal uk cover applies here. I guess some sort of agreement has been reached between Serbia and the EU on border controls (is Serbia Schengen now?).

3. Albania, North Macedonia and Turkey are part of the green card agreement but not the free travel zone. This means you do need a physical document saying you have cover. Without one you aren’t covered at all. Simple as. Border insurance will need to be purchased without a green card. This will be TPO.

Bennett’s have so far refused to issue any green card for me for any level of cover for these countries simply saying they don’t issue green cards at all. I have an outstanding email to both customer services and operational support about this as I have had conflicting answers on phone calls and web chat.

By the way, Bennett’s customer service is appalling. They really do make it hard to speak to a real person with their faq and phone options mostly leading down blind alleys. Eg I was told to email “greencards@bennetts.co.uk” with my questions for definitive answers. An auto reply simply said we don’t issue green cards at all and Use web chat for more info. Web chat has so many blind alleys it’s hopeless and when I did chat with a person (i think) they were hopeless. I was given another email address that didn’t exist to try and find out if any ever actually looked at the green card email mailbox. Terrible company imho. I’m not going with them again.

4. Kosovo. Not party to any international insurance agreement. The only option here is border insurance.

I am awaiting a call back from Bikesure who are talking directly to an insurance company about covering me for a month in the Balkans as part of a two month euro tour. It was sounding promising with the insurance co coming back with sensible questions about my experience of motorcycles/travel generally and mc travel specifically, ratio of camping to hotels, and daily travel plans. All of which sounded like someone properly assessing risk. The prize for Bikesure is unless it’s silly money I would take the cancellation hit with Bennett’s and move my policy to them as long as I had better cover for travel. Will update when there’s news.

We are still going of course and will buy border insurance if we can’t get a green card for Albania and North Macedonia but it would be nice to have both full cover and cover where I know what I’ve bought.

This is a good resource and provides the definitive answers:
https://www.cobx.org/article/4130/green-card-system-final. There’s a map somewhere that clearly shows what level of international agreement applies where. After that it’s down to your insurance company for what they insurance cover they provide and where.

 

[AustinW]

Update #2. Bikesure just called back.

The good bit is if I take a new policy which will cover EU and Serbia fully comp they will also issue a green card for Albania and North Macedonia.

The not so good bit is cover for those two plus B&H and Montenegro is third party only, ie the same as the Green Card coverage you get in B&H and Montenegro anyway. Insurance company is West Bay aka Markerstudy.

The worst bit is the premium is £350 wef 1st April. That’s a Guzzi V85 full no claims, 62yo me and wife. 1 recent claim and garaged in quietish ruralish area of Lancashire.

The guy said that was only option for cover in the Balkans and nothing they could do on the price. Looks to me like getting fully comp for the Balkans is not going to happen via a mainstream broker if indeed it’s available anywhere. I suspect it’s to do with trust in the relevant country’s financial and insurance systems than the risks per-se.

As I paid £150 to Bennett’s I would be paying £500 in total less a refund of about £50 after cancellation fees from Bennett’s for just three benefits: an extra 4months insurance; clarity on the cover I’ve got in all four countries; and not having to deal with Bennett’s crap systems again.

Hmmm. Is it worth it. Border insurance must only be a few euros in each of Albania and north Macedonia. I’ve bought border insurance in other countries and not worried about it.

 

[freddyfruitbat]

@AustinW Thanks a lot for reporting back - this is all very helpful info.
Totally agree about Bennetts customer support, especially their Godawful webchat thing on which is impossible to get past a robot!

As I mentioned in my last post, I dropped a line to Sterling Insurance; a couple of days later I received a voicemail from a re from Bikesure asking if I'd like to get a quote. That ties in with what Wessie reported about the ownership of Sterling... I hadn't yet braced myself to call them back, but from your experience with Bikesure I clearly won't bother.

What a complete pain in the arse this is!

 

[Wapping]

This means your normal uk cover applies here. I guess some sort of agreement has been reached between Serbia and the EU on border controls (is Serbia Schengen now?).

Serbia is not in the EU nor within the Schengen Agreement countries.

The EU can come to whatever agreements it likes with any countries it chooses; it will have no binding on the UK as we, uniquely, opted to leave.

Insurance company is West Bay aka Markerstudy.

Others here have declared that they would not touch a Gibraltar domiciled insurer, ever.

 

[AustinW]

Update #3…. RESULT

After a couple of goes at unambiguous certainty the other end of operationssupport@bennetts.co.uk have confirmed that my policy, underwritten by Axa, now extends to cover me in Serbia, B&H and Montenegro, ie fully comp in those places.

Note it’s still not as unambiguous as I’d like with last reply saying:

“Hi Austin

Checking Axa who underwrites your policy, they will provide cover for all 3 countries mentioned below in your email at the level of cover you hold which is comprehensive.

You will need to carry your certificate of motor insurance with you.”

The slightly ambiguous bit is I didn’t mention three countries I mentioned B&H and Montenegro, plus separately Albania and North Macedonia. However I’m confident the reply refers to Bosnia &Herzegovina, and Montenegro where B&H is being treated as two countries.

For those others thinking of going to the Balkans it’s definitely worth persisting with clarifying what cover you have where.

 

[wessie]

Update #3…. RESULT

After a couple of goes at unambiguous certainty the other end of operationssupport@bennetts.co.uk have confirmed that my policy, underwritten by Axa, now extends to cover me in Serbia, B&H and Montenegro, ie fully comp in those places.

Note it’s still not as unambiguous as I’d like with last reply saying:

“Hi Austin

Checking Axa who underwrites your policy, they will provide cover for all 3 countries mentioned below in your email at the level of cover you hold which is comprehensive.

You will need to carry your certificate of motor insurance with you.”

The slightly ambiguous bit is I didn’t mention three countries I mentioned B&H and Montenegro, plus separately Albania and North Macedonia. However I’m confident the reply refers to Bosnia &Herzegovina, and Montenegro where B&H is being treated as two countries.

For those others thinking of going to the Balkans it’s definitely worth persisting with clarifying what cover you have where.

the crux of the matter will be getting a document from Axa that confirms the territorial limits of your cover

I would not trust an email from your new friend at Bennetts...

 

[freddyfruitbat]

operationssupport@bennetts.co.uk have confirmed that my policy, underwritten by Axa, now extends to cover me in Serbia, B&H and Montenegro, ie fully comp in those places.

That's great... but let me add my own correspondence with Bennetts before Xmas...

Freddy: "I recently started a policy with you (xxxxx). I intend to be touring Europe on the bike next year, and want to visit Bosnia which is not in the EU. Reading my policy document it says:
"The insurer will cover your legal liability to others while you or any rider noted on the certificate of motor insurance is using your bike within the European Union and any other country which has agreed to follow the EU Motor Insurance Directive (number 2009/103/EC)." and "The insurer will also provide the cover shown on your policy schedule for up to 90 days in any period of insurance while you are using your bike within the countries referred to on your certificate of motor insurance."
Now, I know that Bosnia is one of the countries which follows 2009/103/EC, and also that it's not listed on the insurance certificate; therefore I assume that for Bosnia I will be covered legally, but only for minimum third-party only cover; am I right?"

Bennetts: "Thank you. That is a good question to be honest. You are right, in the policy booklet there is no list of countries but this reference to the European directive. I'm aware that Bosnia is not a country where we can cover to be honest. The 90 days cover refers to the EU countries, that you have the same level as on the policy for this time and then it is reducing to the minimum legal requirement."

Freddy: "Follow up query: is it possible to increase my cover to my standard policy cover while in Bosnia (like the rest of the EU), if I pay extra premium?"

Bennetts: "I'm afraid we do not have the option to extend the territorial limits."

My policy is underwritten by AGEAS, for what it's worth; maybe that makes a difference

 

[AustinW]

the crux of the matter will be getting a document from Axa that confirms the territorial limits of your cover

I would not trust an email from your new friend at Bennetts...

Agreed, I’ll be asking for some proper documentation tomorrow, although as Freddie points out, B&H and Montenegro are countries that do follow the EU directive (I have the same clause on my policy) so arguably it’s addressed already.

The rest of the stuff in Freddie's last post reads like waffle and fob-off from a call centre chimp who doesn’t know what he’s talking about.

Edit, actually Freddy may be right. The policy wording says
1. cover for third party in EU and the countries that have signed up to EU Motor Insurance Directive (number 2009/103/EC).
AND
2. Fully comp for up to 90 days in those countries listed on the certificate of insurance. (B&H and Montenegro are not listed so according to the contract between me and Bennett’s/Axa I ain’t got fully comp in B&H and Montenegro.).

I have written back asking for a new certificate with the countries added. Let’s see how that is received.

 

[AustinW]

Last update I think. Bennett’s finally gave me green card that covers all of Europe except Albania, Kosovo and Moldova and were adamant again that this meant I had fully comp in all the countries covered by the green card. Let’s hope I don’t have to test the cover further than showing it to an official.

 

[freddyfruitbat]

Bennett’s finally gave me green card that covers all of Europe except Albania, Kosovo and Moldova

So do you mean you actually have a physical, hard-copy, green-coloured document, then?! If so, congrats, and what did you need to say or do to obtain this? I want....!

 

[Berin]

So do you mean you actually have a physical, hard-copy, green-coloured document, then?! If so, congrats, and what did you need to say or do to obtain this? I want....!

I just printed the green card certificate they emailed on green paper.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk