Build quality

[skywalker]

I take on board all of the above points guys. what i was trying to get across was that some issues are down to ownership whilst others aren't.
I personally think that if a bare alloy finish had been thought of in the first place then maybe there wouldn't have been as many issues. Then again the boxers that were built in the 70's were far better made & the alloy quality was far better.
Unfortunately what we now have are machines produced by what the bottom line on the balance sheet is which seems in line with everyone else. Unfortunately for us the marketing angle is very different.

 

[Aurelius]

Just to update everyone,
I went to the dealer and showed them the rust only to be told that it was caused by the salt on the roads at this time of year(NO SHIT).
Apparently if you wash the bike off after every ride you wont have a problem.
The problems I have are 60/70% of the spoke at the point they screw in to the nipple have started to rust and yes I know they are S/Steel and the fuel tank along the front edge between the seam joint is rusting very nicely, apparently I am only noticeing the rust because the tank is white.

We all know that salt contributes to rust. But what puzzles me is that my 1150GS exhibited exactly the same signs of rusting and bubbling paint described here, despite the fact that there is NO salt in the air or on the streets here in central Florida. I drive a pristine 1990 BMW 525i that looks almost as new as it did the day it rolled off the assembly line, with no signs of corrosion anywhere. Yet my BMW motorcycle inexplicably showed corrosion damage only a few months after I bought it. That has not been the case with any of the Japanese motorcycles I've owned, most of which had far more mileage on them than the GS.

 

[Tsiklonaut]

Both R1100GSes i've owned, both 7+ years old, and NO BIT of a RUST on the whole bike. All that is while i ride in salty roads and not even cleaning the bike mostly.

Haven't heard any complaining from other 1100 users, but i hear alot of finish complaining from 1150 users here, strange what the good old B*M has become nowadays, innit...

 

[Aurelius]

Both R1100GSes i've owned, both 7+ years old, and NO BIT of a RUST on the whole bike. All that is while i ride in salty roads and not even cleaning the bike mostly.

Haven't heard any complaining from other 1100 users, but i hear alot of finish complaining from 1150 users here, strange what the good old B*M has become nowadays, innit...

You might be on to something. The R1100GS I rode years ago had 110,000 miles on the odometer, and was parked outside for years near the sea. While it did have some rust on it, it wasn't nearly as bad as it should have been, considering the environment it had lived in. Perhaps they really were making them better back then.

 

[dirtydog]

GT85 seems to adhere the the bike quite well. Cleaned it last week and sprayed it all over. Got back tonight and hosed the bike down, noticed water beading off. I used it years ago on my mountain bike, obviously I forgot how good it was! Not a bad price either @ £3.99 a can.

Still pissed off I'm gonna have to clean it every week though (hate cleaning bikes!)

 

[MikeP]

I personally think that if a bare alloy finish had been thought of in the first place then maybe there wouldn't have been as many issues. Then again the boxers that were built in the 70's were far better made & the alloy quality was far better.

I haven't owned a Japanese bike in too many years to be able to make any meaningful comparison but I've owned quite a few BMW's.

I'm not sure that the build quality has altered much.

I can recall spending a lot of time trying to clean those 'quality' engine cases (especially in the winter when they would go furry!), replacing rusted nuts and bolts and replacing rotting seat-pans.

On both R100GS's I've had (one from brand-new), the collector boxes rusted badly and the silencers rusted along the top joints of the square section starting at the mounting point. The foot-brake levers and actuating rods corroded badly and the yellow fork lowers pitted and flaked. The quick-release fork gaiter clamps also turned red pretty quickly.

A mono-shock R80RT's rear sub-frame rusted through.

Same story on a 1988 K100RT viz the engine cases turning furry only now the rear swing-arm (un-painted) would oxidize badly too! The fairing supports, buried under the fairing but visible seemed to be painted with water-soluble paint. K-series seats would split at the leading edge but at least they had plastic pans that didn't rust! Foot-peg mountings on K's also rusted badly on early models. The radiator mesh's would rust like crazy.

A 1990 K1 I owned was the first to have the engine and drive train completely painted but the funny one-off fasteners for the fairing lowers and the front wheel fairing that had to be removed for servicing and tyre changing, would corrode as soon as a hex-key was used to undo them!

Front pipes on all K's would turn brown and then corrode. They were almost impossible to clean.

I think that compared to Japanes bikes in the 80's, they were better but the latter have got their act together whereas BMW have remained the same.

(Maybe the quality as reported by magazine testers is a throwback to those days when there was an appreciable difference? The "quality" tag was also applied to BMW's in those days because they would do high mileages when many Japanese bikes would need a top-end re-build at 30k).

 

[matt_bailey]

Do modern environmental restrictions now prevent the use of chemical coatings previously applied to bikes during manufacture?

If so, are these restrictions strictly adhered to in Germany, and less so in Japan?

I've owned Yamahas, Hondas and a BMW. The Yamaha corroded the worst and did the least miles. Oddly, I had two Honda Varaderos that both did over 30K all year round. One was like new when sold, the other like a rusty horseshoe. Varaderos are built in Spain.

Another question:
How long do you wait befre washing salt off bike after daily commute?
I always end up disappearing in a cloud of steam.

Matt

 

[Spud]

Now there's something that I always wondered about.

We're told never to use warm water to wash off salt, but if you use cold water on a hot engine you'll stress the coating there and if you use cold water on hot brake discs you may induce micro cracks.

All urban myths?

Confused of deepest, darkest and totally frozen Lanarkshire.

 

[Johnocyprus]

Build Quality

My 04 Adv has done 42,000 miles and has no corrosion at all. I have used it in all weathers but it is now tucked away for the winter. It has never been on any salt treated roads. Incidentally it feels as if it is just run in and is so much nicer and smoother than a 5,000 mile example I recently rode.

 

[Howard Millichap]

My 04 Adv has done 42,000 miles and has no corrosion at all. I have used it in all weathers but it is now tucked away for the winter. It has never been on any salt treated roads. Incidentally it feels as if it is just run in and is so much nicer and smoother than a 5,000 mile example I recently rode.

Hmmm! "Used in all weathers...BUT....never been on any salt treated roads".

Not been used in all weathers then, has it?

Fact is, salt IS the great corroder. The protective finnish is what is being discussed here and in my opinion BMWs are not finnished as well as some other marques these days. They seem to be suffering the "tin worm" that afflicted the Japs in the '70's. I think it is almost impossible to fully protect the engine cases unless they are shielded by a fairing or sommat else. A single stone chip will allow the salt to start burrowing into the alloy underneath. The only solutions are :-
1/ don't ride in winter.
2/ keep spraying with a protective like Motorex645, Scottoil 365 or ACF50.
3/ coat the whole thing in Waxoil before the salt season starts.
The fact is, ALL manufacturers need to do better.

 

[Alphason]

I have to say, for the first time, I agree with Howard Apart from the crazy footer, of course

 

[BBB61]

Its a couple of firsts actually.

1. Howard not slagging off BMW's
2. Howard actually talking sense!

 

[Howard Millichap]

Its a couple of firsts actually.

1. Howard not slagging off BMW's
2. Howard actually talking sense!

Well, I'm glad you agreed when I said "BMWs are not finnished as well as some other marques". 'coz my Triumph is miles better.

There, I hope that's restored the natural order of things.

 

[BBB61]

Well, I'm glad you agreed when I said "BMWs are not finnished as well as some other marques". 'coz my Triumph is miles better.

QUOTE]

Now now Howard, if you re-read what I said, you'll find I wasn't in agreement
with you on that. In fact you must be a very lucky man to have a post 2000 built Triumph that is finished to a better standard than a BMW. It must be the only one out there as the rest of them are crap, just like their warrantly department. Either that or you need your eyes testing as you are unable to see the grungy bits on your Tiger

 

[andygbsmith]

Latest update

I arranged with SPC to have someone from BMW UK to come down and look at my bike.
Although he was reluctant to replace anything because 'it would only go rusty again' he eventually agreed to change both wheels, fuel tank and possibly front pipes.
At least if I have this work done in a months time the bike should look reasonable for this summer.
Out of interest he reckons that if you use muck off to clean your bikes it will promote corrosion?

 

[MMC]

Maybe he thinks Muc Off will strip any oil from the surface allowing salt/corrosion to get at it.

I wash my 1150 regularly and cover it in waxoyl, WD40 and anything else that might keep the crap off, and then ride it through the winter. 44k on the clock and only the usual corrosion on the fork brace.

 

[Richyboy]

Rust , flaky paint , corroding alloy..........

Well its nice to see im not alone here , had big sports bikes all my biking life (ex power ranger you might say ) and was converted to my 1150 gsa 04 after test riding one.Swapped through the boredom of sports bikes you know the routine , worried bout rackin up the miles ,worried bout resale value bad weather ,winter etc...well guess what
Thought my gsa was gonna be a revelation and it is is some ways - bitter and sweet.Would love to keep it till it reaches 100,000miles ,bin all over europe ,done all kinds o shit on it and love it to bits but o my god ,does this thing corrode ,even when pampered and washed an scrubbed.When i cleaned the front wheel and looked up under neath the tank and saw loads of bubbling rust on the tank where it attaches to the frame i blew my in stack never seen anything like it .Bike is sept 2004 1150 gsa and now has ONLY 12,000 miles on it , never seen a british winter.Heres a list:

fork brace
under fuel tank
rear wheel nuts
foot pegs
mirror stalks
many fasteners
the point where end of spokes attach to centers of wheels on both wheels

discs warping thier bollocks off despite me taking out the front pads and cleaning and lubing pins etc...
this is just off the top of my head without poking around.I sing this bikes praises to all the lads but secretly if they only knew.....

So spoke to steve at Rainbow in Rotherham and he was v sympathetic and said they will look into the warranty side of it for me, too bloody rite , but hey can you believe it.....lets see what happens .

 

[motobiker]

shock horror....

My 1100 is RUSTING.... I had to get on my hands and knees to spot it mind you.... The bolt that holds the exhaust downpipes (in front and below the brake pedal).

Also some rust at the base of the front shock...


I'm writing to BMW to complain.

 

[TENTOONE]

There are two camps here.

1. BMW bus drivers blind to the rediculous build quality they (me included a few months ago) paid over the odds for

and

2. BMW bus drivers who think their bikes are just so full of character and any faults they (me included here) paid well over the odds for adds just character to a really great machine.

 

[Lovey]

Build Quality

Bought my R1150 GSA Se last september at a cost of just over £10,500 (Including panniers and datatool alarm). Since this time I have added almost every conceivable extra, many of which I have foolishly purchased from my local dealership along with Rallye 2 suit, Gs Boots and gloves, phase 2 thermals (because rallye 2 suit does little in way of keeping you warm!) etc, etc!

In my experience, I have never been rewarded for my loyality to the brand or in particular, the dealership. There is never any scope for discounts which I have previously received elsewhere when spending far less money.

Needless to say, having clocked up just under 9000 miles in 9 months, corrosion has become an issue (engine bars, callipers, exhaust). All this despite the religous application of scot oiler and a fanatical cleaning regime. Is it just me or does anyone else actually enjoy cleaning their bike???

This is my second Beemer and although I love the bike, I'm somewhat disappointed with the finish. I'm awaiting a warranty inspection during the course of which, photo's will be taken and sent away to BMW Uk for analysis. Safe to say, if the problems aren't rectified, my money will be going elsewhere next time (perhaps KTM 990s leaving enough change to buy a second machine for track day use).

I keep loosing the readout on my temperature gauge, particularly if stuck in traffic etc. Anyone got any ideas what problem may be??