Ceramic headers - benefits?

JohnnyBoxer said:
Proper set-up will improve it no end and make you faster
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Only you can't 'cos the S has proprietary computer controlled suspension that can't be altered outside KTM's parameters, or swapped for alternatives because there aren't any.
 
Toddmeister said:
Electronic suspension is definitely getting better, but I'm not sure it's as good as a well set up quality manual system just yet.
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Not down to the electronics, just that there is only 4 pre-load settings and no fine tuning on the KTM's

On the Yamaha system on later Super Tenere's all of the modes are customisable by the owner, I think other manufacturers offer this, at the end of the day all of the bits are there, they just need to add the ability for you to amend the settings, the cost is no more than a few lines of computer code so it makes no sense not to have the option to tweak it to suit individual tastes / weights / riding styles / desire to fiddle.
 
looking forward to seeing how they tweak the spring rates electronically :D

Surprised they've not used air TBH.
 
Toddmeister said:
If you can adjust electronically then it's likely you'll be able to set up pre-load settings, and compression/rebound characteristics , which is all great provided your dealer actually has a clue on how to set up suspension!
The one thing they can't change though is Spring rate. Not a problem if you happen to be the right weight for the spring fitted (usually around 85Kgs) but not so good if you are a lot lighter or heavier than that.

Electronic suspension is definitely getting better, but I'm not sure it's as good as a well set up quality manual system just yet.
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I used to find that Japanese sports bikes didn't need much adjustment before they were pretty much on the money for my svelte 73kg frame but the 1190 Adventure S always has to be set for a compromise of some sort though the traction control and leaning ABS mean I can take liberties that I'd never get away with on the 2005 ZX10R I used to own.
 
All electronic suspension does is substitute C ring spanners and screwdrivers for servos. If it's a posh system it will fine tune via the servos on the move.

What this means is you are limited to manufactures preset parameters; what they consider to be appropriate for one up, two up, sport, comfort etc........

There is no scope for fine tuning between the preset parameters.

Nor does it overcome the way the shock works, spring rate, damping characteristics etc ~ all the sort of stuff you can have spot on by having your shocks rebuilt/reshimmed or buy buying custom built stuff built to your requirements.

No amount of pissing about with software is gonna address that.

Manual suspension every time me for me.

Andres
 
AndyB_11 said:
Really?

It does seem as if you don't conform to certain views you're either gay or a buttercup (it was buttercup wasn't it?) and the HD bar came under attack yesterday but survived the experience :D
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Really?

Can't say I noticed, thought there was a mossie buzzing around the bar at some stage but it got blatted by an old copy of Razzle :)

Andres
 
But the S has semi-active suspension.

The blurb states: "The innovative WP semi-active suspension system introduces a new level of focus and safety in motorcycle riding. The rider can select four spectrums of use: ‘Comfort’, ‘Street’, ‘Sport’ and ‘Offroad’ while the SCU (Suspension Control Unit) adapts the damping rates in real-time to the riding surface and rider, based on the information provided by a set of stroke sensors and accelerometers."
 
Outtomunch said:
What this means is you are limited to manufactures preset parameters; what they consider to be appropriate for one up, two up, sport, comfort etc........

There is no scope for fine tuning between the preset parameters.

Nor does it overcome the way the shock works, spring rate, damping characteristics etc ~ all the sort of stuff you can have spot on by having your shocks rebuilt/reshimmed or buy buying custom built stuff built to your requirements.

No amount of pissing about with software is gonna address that.

Manual suspension every time me for me.

Andres
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Of course pissing about with software can overcome some of it.

When you press the two up button it might add lets say 8mm of extra compression to the spring, they could give you the ability to move this up and down by lets say 3mm in each direction so you would have a choice of 5,6,7,8,9,10,11mm for your two-up pre-load.

Same with damping, most shocks will have about 20 clicks of adjustment and maybe Sport, Road and Comfort equate to 6, 12 and 18 clicks, again you could be given the option of adjusting each of these up and down by 3 clicks so you could customize each of the 3 settings to suit you.....

....this is what you can do with the Yamaha system, they seem to appreciate not everyone is the same weight, rides in the same way and has the same preferences for suspension setup.


Obviously it still cannot compensate for an incorrect spring rate / alter the spring rate, but being able to make subtle changes to suit individual owners would be a huge improvement......

....although the need to fiddle with damping settings is arguably becoming less important with the Dynamic systems, but I think being able to set the sag to your own weight is probably still very valid and an area where the ES KTM's are behind the manual systems.

Still with you on well setup quality manual suspension being better :thumb
 
Moose said:
But the S has semi-active suspension.

.........
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Rasher said:
Of course pissing about with software can overcome some of it.

.........
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The point I was making (which I think Rasher agrees with) was that the servos do what I would do with a C spanner (or adjusting knob) for preload and screwdrivers for high/low speed compression and rebound damping.

Naturally an active/semi active system will alter these parameters in real time on the move.

What the servos/software can't do is improve on the quality of the shock. So, I guess the point I was making in a slightly oblique way was that the only way to 'improve' the suspension would be to have it rebuilt to your spec (as I had done) or buy custom made suspension. No fiddling with software is gonna improve the quality of the suspension, just it's operating parameters.

Andres
 
Outtomunch said:
The point I was making (which I think Rasher agrees with) was ....

....I guess the point I was making in a slightly oblique way was that the only way to 'improve' the suspension would be to have it rebuilt to your spec (as I had done) or buy custom made suspension. No fiddling with software is gonna improve the quality of the suspension, just it's operating parameters.

Andres
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Exactly, I would rather have top quality manually adjusted suspension than poor quality suspension that is adjusted by a button press...

...when I fitted Wilburs to my GS I noticed that compared to the ES loan bikes I got when having service work done that my Wilburs setup on my "normal" settings handled as well as the ES bike in Sport mode, yet was still more comfortable than the ES bike was in Standard mode.

My higher quality suspension worked much better over a wider range, I could still go more sporty or more comfortable with twiddling, but due to the better quality suspension the need to constantly twiddle was not there, whereas the lower quality BMW suspension needed constant adjustment because it was so crap (comparatively speaking)

I would however add that I think the stock 1190 suspension is probably the best OE suspension I have ever sampled, but if I was not planning on trading the bike in a year or two I would be very tempted to take it to MCT for a bit of a workover.

And I would still rather have non electronic Ohlins over the new Active Suspension if given the choice - but as this choice is not available I will make do with whatever the 1290 now comes with (subject to liking it on a test ride - I may decide to keep my faster 1190)
 
twizzle said:
Talking to the mech at Trevor Pope (KTM) who builds race engines - and has a dyno....he put me in my place when I asked about a remap and Dyno by saying..." is your riding so good that you need more??"...

I had to agree that it isn't..... And I'm talking the shitty 1050....which is way faster then my ability....

Lot of bullshit being spouted by a few on here.... Riding gods and all that......

The only person I'd listen to is Giles, as he has realistically the best training and experience...:thumb2
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Is the right answer ... :D


I spouted on, on another thread about remaps being great for fuelling and super smooth throttle control and that I didn't give a hoot what the numbers say and what my max BHP is. And I stand by that.
How often do you hit the throttle stop on a country lane and wait those split seconds for the engine to catch up with your brain on an 11 or 1290??

I certainly don't need 'more'. I just like perfect fuelling from the re-map, and the MPG and pleasant gurgle from the decat ...

:thumb2
 
Sigh ...
So Hippy boy, what's yer beef with the trail smarts ..?


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Giles said:
Sigh ...
So Hippy boy, what's yer beef with the trail smarts ..?
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I had high expectations of them having used the older ones on my GS and been very happy with them....................so thought I'd give the Trailsmarts a punt on the 1190R even though I had no issues with the TA2's (in fact I really like them on the 1190).

TA2's ~ Very neutral with linear roll-in as you turn. Stable holding a line and accurate. Stable at speed. Loaded up they feel no different. Very confidence inspiring. No issues with wet grip. And whilst mileage is not an issue for me I was amazed at getting 8k out of the rear with minimal squaring off (included in this was a fair amount of hot m-way work, fully loaded, in Spain and France).
I did find I rode the rear right to the edge which whilst I had no moments I prefer to keep a little chicken strip in reserve; not sure if this is down to their profile or down to the confidence they inspired?

Trailsmarts ~ Really accentuate the 21" front's reluctance to turn in initially; on the TA2's I was hardly aware of running a 21" due to the linear way they turned in. On the Trailsmarts you have to put in a bit more effort to initiate the turn, they turn slowly then suddenly drop in.....initially I thought this was because they were new and they'd settle down/I'd get used to it but they still do it and it's this aspect that I really hate about them (not as in I'm not so keen on it, it's sooooo pronounced that it's made me hate them).
No issues with grip, wet or dry. Still got 4-5 mm chicken strips which is how I like a tyre. Stable holding a line and at speed (solo or loaded) but I wouldn't call them accurate due to their tipping in issues.
They have also squared off on the rear with plenty of miles left to go (I've done approx 2000 miles on them) and reckon at this rate it'll be shagged by 3-4000 miles. That wouldn't bother me if I thought they were a good tyre.........

Oh, and for a tart like me the TA2 tread pattern is way nicer; very important! :D

I'm going back to TA2's

I'm never listening to your recommendations on tyres again, ever :D ;)

Andres
 
Nippy Normans supply Touratech, Wunderlich, Desert Fox and many other makes of accessories.
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