Charging. help?

[Nick dj]

Just got my bike back after putting in V Power diesel !!!
I had a local BMW recover it after nearly melting the battery trying to pump it out.
They have put a new battery and plugs in and it seems to run ok.
Yesterday after 10 miles on fast roads, I stopped and the battery could not turn the engine fast enough to start.
I am wondering if the battery was low or is not charging enough whilst running.
After bumping it off on a hill I rode home- It was 33 percent when I got home (according to my BM charger)

The battery records 13.3V fully charged and 14.4V across the terminals whilst running but does not rise if you rev the engine.
Are these the right figures?

I am due to start a tour going over to Ireland on Friday so am concerned!!!

 

[Hann]

I assume that no poor starting was evident before the diesel disater?
It`d be too much of a coincidence for a charging fault to have developed at excactly the same time as your fuelling error i would think.
13.3 at rest and 14.4 whilst running are good figures and do not point to anything amiss, the voltage will not necessarily rise further than 14.4 when revved if the charging sircuit is optimal and the reg/rec is doing its job.
Do you know what the battery voltage was just after arriving home, ie: after a ride.

Whats changed? The battery......
Did they fit a good quality battery?
Or it could be a faulty battery, it`s not unknown!
We all know these LC`s are borderline cranking performance-wise so to stand any chance of being a reliable starter a good quality battery is required.

Or, cranking the bike `until the battery melted` could have damaged some wiring - check battery earths for good contact and the power lead from battery to the starter motor via the relay which could have suffered during the epic cranking event..

 

[Engineer]

Just got my bike back after putting in V Power diesel !!!
I had a local BMW recover it after nearly melting the battery trying to pump it out.
They have put a new battery and plugs in and it seems to run ok.
Yesterday after 10 miles on fast roads, I stopped and the battery could not turn the engine fast enough to start.
I am wondering if the battery was low or is not charging enough whilst running.
After bumping it off on a hill I rode home- It was 33 percent when I got home (according to my BM charger)

The battery records 13.3V fully charged and 14.4V across the terminals whilst running but does not rise if you rev the engine.
Are these the right figures?

I am due to start a tour going over to Ireland on Friday so am concerned!!!

Those voltages are about right. The regulator will keep the voltage at 14.4V and not let it rise above this value - so the voltage will not increase when you rev the bike.

Two other things.
10 miles isn't really enough to put in much charge if the bike has been left unused for a few days.
The BMW charger doesn't give a accurate % charge when first switched on - it can say it is very low, say 30% but leave it 5 mins and the charge has risen loads - I don't know how they measure charge capacity but I would only trust the 100% full figure.

 

[knutk]

Failing to crank from a new battery certainly does not build confidence.

However, a new battery really needs to be charged prior to being used.
If the dealer installed a new battery without charging it first, failing to crank a hot engine may make sense.

13.3 Volt with engine not running surely indicates that the battery has been taking charge. (and the voltage level is only that high just shortly after the engine has stopped and will drop rappidly). However, in order to get an indication of the state of charge, it takes a while before a sensible voltage reading may be done. Then, a voltage of 12.5 - 12.8 V is probably the very most a reading from the TFT voltage will show.

 

[EVskiy]

Just got my bike back after putting in V Power diesel !!!
I had a local BMW recover it after nearly melting the battery trying to pump it out.
They have put a new battery and plugs in and it seems to run ok.
Yesterday after 10 miles on fast roads, I stopped and the battery could not turn the engine fast enough to start.
I am wondering if the battery was low or is not charging enough whilst running.
After bumping it off on a hill I rode home- It was 33 percent when I got home (according to my BM charger)

The battery records 13.3V fully charged and 14.4V across the terminals whilst running but does not rise if you rev the engine.
Are these the right figures?

I am due to start a tour going over to Ireland on Friday so am concerned!!!

Assuming the new battery supplied by BMW was fully charged before going in the bike, then I would think that there is a problem with the bike. 33% charge on a brand new battery is a bit crap…

 

[Gs12bos]

Assuming the new battery supplied by BMW was fully charged before going in the bike, then I would think that there is a problem with the bike. 33% charge on a brand new battery is a bit crap…

Some sound advice from others, I would check all leads from-direct and
to the battery, I would be inclined to but in another battery as mentioned you can get a dud new battery , worth a try to illuminate.

 

[clutchspring]

Are we talking 1200 or 1250 bike !

 

[Engineer]

The 1250 is the first of all of my 6 x 1200 GS's since 2005 to have needed a maintenance charger to ensure that the bike will start after a week on non use. It is also the first bike I have had tracker fitted to. I have asked Datatool to let me know what the current drain from the main battery is when the tracker is not transmitting, I am awaiting their reply.

The total quiescent current drain when the bike is off is approx 50mA as measured a couple of days ago - this will give 10 days battery life for a 12AH battery.

 

[theoneandonly]

? umm why didn't they siphon the tank ?

i'd be going straight back .

 

[Pukmeister]

Open-circuit terminal voltage is no guarantee of battery capacity, its just a rough guide regardless of whether its measured by a multimeter or a "smart charger". A drop tester to put the battery under load is the only reliable way to know if the cells are good...... You need amps to crank a bike.

Another steady load on the bike is a tracker, do you have one fitted? My own 1250GSA has a fairly new and oversized Motobatt item, which the OE (datatool) tracker is quite happy to drain flat over the course of a fortnight.

Having your spark plugs washed in un-atomised diesel isn't going to help much either.

 

[Engineer]

Open-circuit terminal voltage is no guarantee of battery capacity, its just a rough guide regardless of whether its measured by a multimeter or a "smart charger". A drop tester to put the battery under load is the only reliable way to know if the cells are good...... You need amps to crank a bike.

Another steady load on the bike is a tracker, do you have one fitted? My own 1250GSA has a fairly new and oversized Motobatt item, which the OE (datatool) tracker is quite happy to drain flat over the course of a fortnight.

Having your spark plugs washed in un-atomised diesel isn't going to help much either.

Correct - the BMW charger cannot give an accurate measure of the capacity as it would need to load the battery and plot the voltage v current graph all the way from fully charged to fully discharged - it cannot do this in the few seconds it takes for it to report a percentage figure.

 

[Engineer]

From my post in the What is this red thing thread......................

Datatool have just come back to me and stated the following:

"The tracker draws <1mA when it’s ‘Sleep’ state. When it’s in ‘Alert’ like in the situation of a potential theft, this will be more around 40 mA."

So if the Tracker is working correctly it should have no significant (<1mA) current drain on the motorcycle battery.

This tells me that the almost all of the 50mA I measured is going into the bikes electronics - so if you are not going to use your bike for a week without a maintenance charger connected you could have trouble with the bike starting, especially in Winter - this is my experience. A larger capacity battery than the 12HA one fitted as standard would be a good idea - does such a thing exist that will fir into the same space????

The only thing that I'll add to this is that I believe the bikes electronics can get themselves into a state that causes a much higher current drain that the 50mA - if this happens then the battery will discharge far more quickly that the expected 10 days. This situation may require a 'reset' by removing the battery completely and shorting the wires to discharge any capacitors a force a complete reset?? This still needs to be verified.

 

[EPG_19]

From my post in the What is this red thing thread......................

Datatool have just come back to me and stated the following:

"The tracker draws <1mA when it’s ‘Sleep’ state. When it’s in ‘Alert’ like in the situation of a potential theft, this will be more around 40 mA."

So if the Tracker is working correctly it should have no significant (<1mA) current drain on the motorcycle battery.

This tells me that the almost all of the 50mA I measured is going into the bikes electronics - so if you are not going to use your bike for a week without a maintenance charger connected you could have trouble with the bike starting, especially in Winter - this is my experience. A larger capacity battery than the 12HA one fitted as standard would be a good idea - does such a thing exist that will fir into the same space????

The only thing that I'll add to this is that I believe the bikes electronics can get themselves into a state that causes a much higher current drain that the 50mA - if this happens then the battery will discharge far more quickly that the expected 10 days. This situation may require a 'reset' by removing the battery completely and shorting the wires to discharge any capacitors a force a complete reset?? This still needs to be verified.

or the tracker is not going into a sleep state.

 

[Mr Bean]

Yuasa do a 16ah battery - quite pricey though. Bought mine from Tayna

I understand Motobatt do one too.

 

[EPG_19]

Bought mine from Tayna

Is she a member here?

 

[Engineer]

Update - conclusive evidence Datatool and Scorpion automotive are technically incompetent.

1250 GS TE.

Just measured the quiescent current drain from the bike battery

Current drain when bike shut down fully and Scorpion tracker in place = 50mA
Current drain when bike shut down fully and Scorpion tracker removed = 6.5mA

Datatool/Scorpion say the current drain from their unit is <1mA.

This has been the case since the bike was new.

Datatool refuse to replace the unit because it is out of warranty, they want something like £150 to replace the unit but when asked if the current drain would now be <1mA they refused to guarantee that it would be any better.

The unit is not faulty as it tracks just fine and always reports when the bike exits a set geofence.

Conclusion 1: Your battery will go flat enough within 5 days such that the bike will not start, it is worse in winter.
Conclusion 2: Trackers from Datatool/Scorpion automotive are a bit crap.

I've just cancelled my renewal.

 

[wessie]

Conclusion 2: Trackers from Datatool/Scorpion automotive are a bit crap.

I came to that conclusion about their products in 1995.

 

[Engineer]

I came to that conclusion about their products in 1995.

They 'clearly got into bed' with BMW a few years ago and BMW offered trackers free of charge with new bikes around 2020/2021.

Datatool are very unprofessional too - my subscription is valid until 2nd April but since I phoned them on Thursday to say that I didn't want to auto renew they immediately ended my tracking so breaking our contract - they really are a bunch of shysters.

Interesting that about 6 months after I bought my 1250GS BMW stopped offering this tracker option - perhaps they had far too many complaints.

Datatool/Scorpion are not to be trusted.

 

[littleade]

Update - conclusive evidence Datatool and Scorpion automotive are technically incompetent.

1250 GS TE.

Just measured the quiescent current drain from the bike battery

Current drain when bike shut down fully and Scorpion tracker in place = 50mA
Current drain when bike shut down fully and Scorpion tracker removed = 6.5mA

Datatool/Scorpion say the current drain from their unit is <1mA.

This has been the case since the bike was new.

Datatool refuse to replace the unit because it is out of warranty, they want something like £150 to replace the unit but when asked if the current drain would now be <1mA they refused to guarantee that it would be any better.

The unit is not faulty as it tracks just fine and always reports when the bike exits a set geofence.

Conclusion 1: Your battery will go flat enough within 5 days such that the bike will not start, it is worse in winter.
Conclusion 2: Trackers from Datatool/Scorpion automotive are a bit crap.

I've just cancelled my renewal.

I had the same problems with the datatool stealth tracker fitted to my 2020 1250GS. My optimate was charging my bike when I went into the garage far more often than it did on my 1200. When I disconnected it after cancelling my subscription miraculously the Optimate 4 I use went back to it's usual self when monitoring my previous 1200 in rarely having to top the battery up. When I traded the 1250 in before Christmas I asked the dealer if they wanted me to reconnect it. The reply was that with the trackers fitted the bikes in the showroom often needed a top up so leave it disconnected please. Says it all really.

 

[Engineer]

I had the same problems with the datatool stealth tracker fitted to my 2020 1250GS. My optimate was charging my bike when I went into the garage far more often than it did on my 1200. When I disconnected it after cancelling my subscription miraculously the Optimate 4 I use went back to it's usual self when monitoring my previous 1200 in rarely having to top the battery up. When I traded the 1250 in before Christmas I asked the dealer if they wanted me to reconnect it. The reply was that with the trackers fitted the bikes in the showroom often needed a top up so leave it disconnected please. Says it all really.

Good to see that it's not just me with the problem. I have now taken off the seat unit and removed the Scorpion unit - I'll stick it back in with double sided sticky pads next week but leave it disconnected - at least when I sell or trade in the bike the new owner will have the option of reconnecting it - but I'd advise against it!!!