Clacks , Crunches, or cant get Neutral

I have resolved my issues with the gearbox. As it seems, it was a question of changing the shifting technique.

Upshifts: preload the gear lever, pull the clutch briefly and the minimum possible (don't pull to the grip) and quickly change gear with throttle closed, all in one swift motion.

Downshifts: slightly blip the throttle before downshifting

Finding N is now easier than ever, but I think this is due to mileage.

Putting into 1st ocasionally clonks, but it's not bothersome to me.
 
z7x8c9 said:
Upshifts: preload the gear lever, pull the clutch briefly and the minimum possible (don't pull to the grip) and quickly change gear with throttle closed, all in one swift motion
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I mean this with no offence to you (more to those that fobbed you off with this half arsed 'technique') but that is complete bollox.

You should not have to preload the gearlever in order to achieve smooth shifts - it's a technique to speed up shifts when you want to achieve maximum acceleration and it'll feck the gearbox shift forks eventually. In this case it just manages to mask the clutch drag that causes the clunk - it doesn't fix the inherent design fault.

Have you ever heard of a modern motorbike gearbox that requires 'special techniques' in order to get it to change gear acceptably smoothly?!
 
No offense taken.

First of all, no one told me this. I kinda figured it out by myself.

I agree that a modern motorbike shouldn't need any special skills to change gear. I never said this was a special tecnhnique, just that it works for me. I believe that some adptation is required, but not to the point where you have to think about it everytime.

When I say preload, I mean that it seems there is some minute amount of play in the gear lever when upshifting and I just push it up that amount and then change gear. Is this what you mean by preload? It doesn't seem to do anything wrong to the gearbox... I don't know.

I've seen people saying that adjusting the gear lever up also eliminates any shifting problem. Myabe adjusting the gear lever removes the play I mentioned above.
 
z7x8c9 said:
No offense taken.

First of all, no one told me this. I kinda figured it out by myself.

I agree that a modern motorbike shouldn't need any special skills to change gear. I never said this was a special tecnhnique, just that it works for me. I believe that some adptation is required, but not to the point where you have to think about it everytime.

When I say preload, I mean that it seems there is some minute amount of play in the gear lever when upshifting and I just push it up that amount and then change gear. Is this what you mean by preload? It doesn't seem to do anything wrong to the gearbox... I don't know.

I've seen people saying that adjusting the gear lever up also eliminates any shifting problem. Myabe adjusting the gear lever removes the play I mentioned above.
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Some people think that moving a lever with their foot in time with disengaging the clutch and blipping the throttle is a 'special skill' - I just call it normal smooth gear changing on a motorcycle :D
 
By the way, I'm installing the Gear Shift Assist Pro next month. Let's see how that works out! :D
 
z7x8c9 said:
I guess option 2 would also work but my guess is that it would start to put some force on the gearbox.

What do you think?
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Yes, and that is why Mattw mentioned shift forks; if you're pushing with force, you're forcing shift forks (in a typical motorcycle transmission, I have not personally seen the inside of a GSW one yet) against grooves in spinning gears on the transmission shafts, and this damages the forks eventually. They can actually even turn blue.
 
MattW said:
I mean this with no offence to you (more to those that fobbed you off with this half arsed 'technique') but that is complete bollox.

You should not have to preload the gearlever in order to achieve smooth shifts - it's a technique to speed up shifts when you want to achieve maximum acceleration and it'll feck the gearbox shift forks eventually. In this case it just manages to mask the clutch drag that causes the clunk - it doesn't fix the inherent design fault.

Have you ever heard of a modern motorbike gearbox that requires 'special techniques' in order to get it to change gear acceptably smoothly?!
Click to expand...

bloody rubbish.

all the motorcycles I have ever owned (and ridden) required a certain unique technique to get good smooth shifts with. Whether chain , shaft or belt.

its all part of the riding. If all bikes shifted the same , I'd drive a car.

.
 
pistole said:
bloody rubbish.

all the motorcycles I have ever owned (and ridden) required a certain unique technique to get good smooth shifts with. Whether chain , shaft or belt.

its all part of the riding. If all bikes shifted the same , I'd drive a car.

.
Click to expand...

None of mine need any preloading of the gear lever & or a certain technique

They are all more or less the same in execution

2 have dry clutches

2 have wet clutches

They way they all gear shift isn't hugely different
 
pistole said:
all the motorcycles I have ever owned (and ridden) required a certain unique technique to get good smooth shifts with. Whether chain , shaft or belt.

.
Click to expand...

Same here.
But non of them had such a god awful gearbox that it required you to preload the lever and snatch upshifts in order to change smoothly. This is BMW's brand new, state of the art road bike, not a highly strung race bike or some piece of leaky British iron. All the people that have been 'riding bikes all their lives' (like you) surely haven't suddenly forgotten how to ride?

It's not 'character', it's a design fault leading to excessive clutch drag, plain and simple.
 
I completely agree that every motorcycle requires a unique techinque to achieve smooth shifting. It's part of each bike's character and something that it should be expected.

I also agree that the gearbox on the 1200 GSW is problematic, but I have found a technique that works for me.

On my way to work today, I experimented various combinations of preloading vs not preloading, pull clutch to the grips vs tapping the clutch and quick shifts vs slow shifts and the one thing that made the most difference was tapping the clutch instead of pulling to the grip.

Yes, it has excessive clutch drag, to the point that it's nearly impossible to move the bike in 1st gear, engine off and clutch in. That's how bad the clutch drag is. It's worse when it's the bike is cooled down but it doesn't get much better after being hot. It's easy to see this with the bike in the center stand: just engage the gears and pull the clutch in... the rear wheel should stop moving, but it doesn't... it just keeps spinning altough the clutch is engaged.

I'm taking my bike to the dealer in July to sort out a few issues (unable to program alarme remote, stuck switchgear, unexpected engine shutdown and instal Gear Shift Assistant Pro) and I'll be mentioning the clutch drag and gearbox problems.

One thing that it's strange is that some riders report no problem at all with the gearbox and others are so bothered to the point of returning the bike. If it has a design fault, all bikes must be the same and the reported differences that most riders write about must be related to the shifting technique used. If I had shifted like I do now from the first day I got the bike, I would never complained about the gearbox. I know that some riders who returned the bike and got a new one say that the new bike is much better than the one they returned and that, I can't explain.

The main problem with having a design fault is that all bikes will be the same. If BMW admits that there is a design flaw, they would have to recall all bikes.

Maybe it's time for some manufacturer to develop a gearbox, promote it as being much better than the original one and start making money! :D
 
Up till now I have'nt joined this discussion , but as having a 2013 (original 11000mls up) LC GS, I have followed the comment and my tuppence worth -------

1st gear engagement horrendous, gear shift in rev range 3000 + ok and as smooth and slick as any bike I've had.

Gear changes under 3000 rpm CAN be noisy but I have always put it down to the bikes characteristics (and dragging clutch).

None of the above puts me off what is a great bike , going in for its 12000 service when I get back from a trip to Austria; is getting a bit tappety.
 
How a motorcycle feels is very, very subjective - each bike I have ever had has 'felt' different in many ways including gear shifting but you soon get used to it and it becomes 'normal' - the more you ride the more one adjusts to each bike's quirks. If all you do is get the bike out on a sunny Summer Sunday and do a 100 mile circle and then put it back in the garage until the following weekend then it will take you years to adapt.

If you want smooth shifts on the LC then they must NOT be slow lazy shifts and you MUST blip on all down changes - I have always done this no matter what the bike as it is the most mechanically sympathetic way of changing gear - the LC engine spins up and down far more rapidly than the previous bikes so it is easy to mis-match the revs and this lead to clunky down shifts because of the clutch drag - learn how to do it and all becomes sweetness and light :)
 
Update on my very early 2014 model, sticky clutch & occasionally hard to find neutral up to 1500 miles, had push rod replaced for modified item at 1.5k then it's got progressively better & now at 3,800 miles, I would say it's now perfect & don't want any more attention or fixes applying.. In all very happy with it now.. Amazing bike with slick gear change..
 
snaponphil said:
Update on my very early 2014 model, sticky clutch & occasionally hard to find neutral up to 1500 miles, had push rod replaced for modified item at 1.5k then it's got progressively better & now at 3,800 miles, I would say it's now perfect & don't want any more attention or fixes applying.. In all very happy with it now.. Amazing bike with slick gear change..
Click to expand...

Same here I was lucky enough to have a sweat gearbox/clutch operation on my 2013 GS and now have the new GSA with an equally sweat operation. I've just got back from a trip to Europe and bike has just over 3000 miles on it and feels even slicker.

PS I can also easily move the bike in either direction in gear with the clutch pulled no drag evident

Terry
 
telbenj said:
Same here I was lucky enough to have a sweat gearbox/clutch operation on my 2013 GS and now have the new GSA with an equally sweat operation. I've just got back from a trip to Europe and bike has just over 3000 miles on it and feels even slicker.

PS I can also easily move the bike in either direction in gear with the clutch pulled no drag evident

Terry
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Well that sucks (for me).

If you can move the bike in 1st gear, engine off and clutch pulled in it means I have a problem in my bike.
On mine it's nearly impossible. It seems as the brakes have seized.
You mention this is in the GSA. What about in the GS, do you remember?
Guess my dealer has some explaining to do...
I guess this is the defenitive proof there is something wrong with some bikes because this test is devoid of any rider or shifting technique.

Thanks!
 
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