Cold Handling

[PC1]

Hi,

Does the cold weather we have at the moment affect things like tyres and the suspension. My 2005 Gs seems very twitchy. Or is it just me being paranoid about slippery surfaces? I have checked pressures and all nuts that may be loose, all seem ok. Any words of comfort will be appreciated.

 

[colinw]

yes it does have an effect, the moving parts are cold and stiff for a little while, tyres take ages to warm up and become supple etc.

During the colder part of the winter i drop tyre pressures by 3psi and back off the damping on the rear a little, i commute 50 miles each day in all weathers, i am afraid this is a part of proper all year riding.

Ride smooth and gentle, and respect what the bike is telling you, if it feels twitchy somethings not right.

I had a thread a little while ago that highlighted the fact that BMW recommended 36/42 psi front and rear, but conti (i run trail attacks) recommend 33/36, thats quite a difference, i dropped mine to 33/36 and all my handling problems have gone, not suggesting you do that of course, but check your tyre pressures by the tyre maker, dont listen to all the mumbo jumbo black magic voodoo saying you insurance will be invalid, as long as you are to the tyre makers tolerences you will be ok.

 

[brassmonkey001]

It may be a bit more twitchy or it may be you that's a bit more twitchy or it may be both. Try and relax and don't ride at your limit if the conditions aren't suitable.

 

[GSmonkey]

It will be the avaialbe grip from the tyres, or you being a bit nervous. I ride every day and see people going way too slow in corners, obviously not enjoying it. The GS is a great bike for poor conditions - let it move around a bit, but keep it smooth and wind on the power mid corner and you will be amazed at the available grip.

 

[Gipsy]

yes it does have an effect, the moving parts are cold and stiff for a little while, tyres take ages to warm up and become supple etc.

During the colder part of the winter i drop tyre pressures by 3psi and back off the damping on the rear a little, i commute 50 miles each day in all weathers, i am afraid this is a part of proper all year riding.

Ride smooth and gentle, and respect what the bike is telling you, if it feels twitchy somethings not right.

I had a thread a little while ago that highlighted the fact that BMW recommended 36/42 psi front and rear, but conti (i run trail attacks) recommend 33/36, thats quite a difference, i dropped mine to 33/36 and all my handling problems have gone, not suggesting you do that of course, but check your tyre pressures by the tyre maker, dont listen to all the mumbo jumbo black magic voodoo saying you insurance will be invalid, as long as you are to the tyre makers tolerences you will be ok.

I wouldn't reccomend dropping tyre pressures in the winter on a motorbike. It will in theory give a bigger contact patch, but the tyre profile will suffer, and the tyre may not reach it's operating temperature, both of which will significantly impair it's performance. I would suggest sticking to the tyre manufacturers reccomended presssures.

 

[ianboydsnr]

I wouldn't reccomend dropping tyre pressures in the winter on a motorbike. It will in theory give a bigger contact patch, but the tyre profile will suffer, and the tyre may not reach it's operating temperature, both of which will significantly impair it's performance. I would suggest sticking to the tyre manufacturers reccomended presssures.

Not true, lowering the tyre pressure will allow the tyre to flex more, creating more heat, which in turn will increase the tyre pressure.

 

[ultrasound]

Don't BMW recommend 32/36 unladen anyway? lower pressures may indeed increase contact patch but won't it close up sipes and channels for water clearance. I wouldn't recommend lower tyre pressures in winter (tyre) manufacturers spec is usually the result of a good deal of research

 

[Peak Rider]

My 2005 standard GS (not the Adventure version), both in the owner's manual and on the handy guide under the left-hand side plastic cover, clearly calls for 2.2 bar or 32 psi (front) and and 2.5 bar or 36 psi (rear) for solo riding (no luggage or pillion). Suspecting that BMW development engineers might have put a bit of effort into this I respect the suggested figures and stick to them. The bike has always had excellent feel using the recommended pressures, irrespective of tyre choice. One time after returning from a trip with the missus I forgot to lower the pressures to the solo recommendation and the reduced feel was immediately noticeable and much more 'wooden'. For the past two years I've been using the Avon Azarro/Storm combo at the recommended pressures. They give superb grip and feel, rain or shine, all year round. Give your tyres a few miles to warm up.

Soften up the suspension a bit. Unless you're a heavyweight rider I'd consider backing the front spring preload right off. Although cooler weather can make suspension stiff in the first mile or so you really just want the rear set up properly for your weight (preload) and rebound. The standard rebound setting is 1 1/2 turns out and your ideal setting won't be far off that. If you're running the stock rear shock the preload adjuster can lose its range of adjustment over time but it's easy to fix.

When it's cold we tend to ride more tense. Any arm or shoulder tension goes straight into the handlebars with immediate effect on steering and handling. Stay as relaxed as possible. Do the 'flappy bird' thing and keep your elbows down. There is no substitute for good riding gear. You're got to stay warm and dry to stay loose. BMW's Phase Change thermal underwear is the next best thing to heated clothing.

If you haven't taken advanced rider training give it serious consideration. There are plenty of options and they're all good. You'll learn to ride smoother and more relaxed and better anticipate hazards, winter or summer.

 

[Peak Rider]

Not true, lowering the tyre pressure will allow the tyre to flex more, creating more heat, which in turn will increase the tyre pressure.

You'd have to be doing a track day to get enough heat into the tyres to cause any significant increase in pressure. If you're riding that fast on a public roads in the winter you may want to bring along some brush-clearing equipment to extract yourself from the roadside hedge you'll likely end up in...if you're lucky. For road use your tyres should always be inflated to the manufacturers recommendation for the appropriate load. You'll find that both bike and tyre manufacturers are completely consistent on this.

 

[Phil Thomas]

I had Continental Road Attacks on my R1150RS - they were fine in the summer but would not work at all in the Winter. At about 10C they changed their characteristics completely. Not a gradual change, but a complete change of state. After two winters with them I went back to Michelins, which seem to go off gradually with drop in temperature.

 

[[email protected]]

JUST ME

but I think it handles ace in the cold and wet,very reassuring, but then I did ride a flat barred Daytona 955i on metzler racetec tyres last winter, which was an amazing amount of fun on riany wet days, I also toured on them last year 2000 miles around Italy, shot when I got back though, my advice just relax and go for it ,you will be amazed what you can do if you try, the bike will take care of itself, unless your really stupid, some good vids on you tube if you want to see what it can do, cheers

 

[Deleted account 231211001]

Loosen the death grip on the bars which you will have involuntarily acquired.
Lossen up your shoulders, and slow down a bit to get comfy.
Every twitch in the bike's progress will be amplified with stiff hands/wrists and forearms, making little wobbles feel like imminent highsiders or lowsiders on greasy roundabouts.
Keep your throtlle under control and don't whack it open until as fully upright as you can get.
In essence, control in a relaxed yet confident manner.
I now ride a K1200LT barge and can happily keep a reasonable road speed after this simple yet safe and effective advice was given to me.

 

[colinw]

I wouldn't reccomend dropping tyre pressures in the winter on a motorbike. It will in theory give a bigger contact patch, but the tyre profile will suffer, and the tyre may not reach it's operating temperature, both of which will significantly impair it's performance. I would suggest sticking to the tyre manufacturers reccomended presssures.

no offence ment but try reading the post gipsy, conti recommend 33/36, thats what i run...

 

[stonetown]

Observing the tyre pressure monitor on my 08 GSA, I notice up to 0.2 bar (3 psi) pressure change from cold to warm in the current conditions (up to 10 degrees C external temperature).

So for example my rear conti trail attack has 2.4 bar (34.8 psi) pressure when cold and 2.6 (37.7 psi) bar when warm and riding.

It takes 5-10 mins to reach 2.6 bar from cold, town and country riding.

 

[Deleted account 211025001]

Whilst I have an opinion on most things when it comes to tyres I bow to the superior wisdom of the guys'n'gals that designed, tested and type approved them.

Avon reccomend 36/42 for mine, two up, solo, hot or cold so that's what I do.

I do however play with tyre pressures on my Hill Climb bike, makes feck all difference though - I still fall off

On a more serious note, the comments about relaxing and more training are spot on; you never stop learning and you'll be pleasantly surprised by how much more enjoyable your ride will be when your confidence levels are higher

Andres

 

[ianboydsnr]

You'd have to be doing a track day to get enough heat into the tyres to cause any significant increase in pressure. If you're riding that fast on a public roads in the winter you may want to bring along some brush-clearing equipment to extract yourself from the roadside hedge you'll likely end up in...if you're lucky. For road use your tyres should always be inflated to the manufacturers recommendation for the appropriate load. You'll find that both bike and tyre manufacturers are completely consistent on this.

Are you agreeing with me or disagreeing, because its not clear in your post?

Your comments whilst true, dont reflect what I said at all, I merely pointed out that Gipsy's post was incorrect, I never expressed an opinion on tyre pressures, or that it would raise the pressure significantly, I run mine in the range suggested by the tyre manufactures.

 

[Peak Rider]

Observing the tyre pressure monitor on my 08 GSA, I notice up to 0.2 bar (3 psi) pressure change from cold to warm in the current conditions (up to 10 degrees C external temperature).

So for example my rear conti trail attack has 2.4 bar (34.8 psi) pressure when cold and 2.6 (37.7 psi) bar when warm and riding.

It takes 5-10 mins to reach 2.6 bar from cold, town and country riding.

That's a good example Stonetown. Bike and tyre manufacturers take the temperature and pressure rise into account when they state their recommended cold tyre inflation.

For those going to the NEC show it's a good opportunity to discuss the black arts with the tyre manufacturers' technical reps.

 

[alimey4u2]

Cold handling....

Tyres not at optimum temperature, head bearing grease not at optimum operating temperature, fork oil/seals not at optimum operating temperature, rear shock oil/seals not at optimum operating temperature, control cables & hoses not at ideal operating temperature... Rider ? etc. etc.....

 

[(RIP) Bobble]

I ride on TKC's, standard pressure (only adjust under heavy load). The odd slide, wheelspin etc is what makes winter riding fun, just relax, ride accordingly to the conditions, turn your ipod up and enjoy

Just my 2p

 

[Peak Rider]

Are you agreeing with me or disagreeing, because its not clear in your post?

Yes.

[/QUOTE]Your comments whilst true, dont reflect what I said at all, I merely pointed out that Gipsy's post was incorrect, I never expressed an opinion on tyre pressures, or that it would raise the pressure significantly, I run mine in the range suggested by the tyre manufactures.[/QUOTE]

It seems to me Gipsy's comments are reasonably clear and accurate, particularly when he notes, "...the tyre may not reach its operating temperature...". If cold tyre pressures are dropped below the manufacturer's recommendation the tyre pressure may indeed rise as the tyre builds heat but not reach the correct operating temperature, particularly so in winter. Stonetown's observations indicate the effect on pressure as tyres reach operating temperature.