Corrosion

[Wapping]

....It is inconceivable that the said motorcycle is not fit for its purpose.......

The best practical advice to this chap might be to buy a tin of paint!

Spot on

To which might be added.... Or employ a bit more dilligent use of the squeezy over 18 months.... or get it fixed when the first rust pimples appeared...

 

[JINKY]

Guys I have been reading this post with interest

and was wondering if you bought a £12000 car that is out in all weather, would you expect it to rust after 18 months, basicallyit does not matter if the guy washes the bike or not, it basically shows that the paint standard of bmw is not upto a high standard,and it is for this reason that beople go to lenghts to protect their investment.Should we have to ! that is the million dollor question

Jinky

 

[Fanum]

2 years, but only if you pay for them. with warranty replacements it's to the end of existing warranty.

Now you've got me confused Cookie....not hard I know.

At the risk of being a little , are you saying that if you get an engine replaced under warranty a month before the original warranty expires, there's only a month's warranty on that engine?

Shirley not

 

[BBB61]

Guys I have been reading this post with interest

and was wondering if you bought a £12000 car that is out in all weather, would you expect it to rust after 18 months, basicallyit does not matter if the guy washes the bike or not, it basically shows that the paint standard of bmw is not upto a high standard,and it is for this reason that beople go to lenghts to protect their investment.Should we have to ! that is the million dollor question

Jinky

The exterior of modern cars stands up very well to corrosion but you only have to look under the bonnet or underneath the car and you will find evidence of corrosion very easily. But as it's out of sight then people are not too concerned.

 

[Fanum]

Guys I have been reading this post with interest

and was wondering if you bought a £12000 car that is out in all weather, would you expect it to rust after 18 months, basicallyit does not matter if the guy washes the bike or not, it basically shows that the paint standard of bmw is not upto a high standard,and it is for this reason that beople go to lenghts to protect their investment.Should we have to ! that is the million dollor question

Jinky

Depends on what's reasonable doesn't it......

One of my overriding memories or tootling around the Irish backroads is of inch thick piles of loose gravel in the middle of the road....I seem to remember that they don't tar it down, they just spread it and rely on wear to push the gravel into the old tarmac.

Now, mix lots of loose gravel with sea air, and it's feasible that rust like that could be reasonably be expected to develop IMO

Not saying that's what's happened, but it's possible

 

[cookie]

Now you've got me confused Cookie....not hard I know.

At the risk of being a little , are you saying that if you get an engine replaced under warranty a month before the original warranty expires, there's only a month's warranty on that engine?

Shirley not

that's what i'm saying.

the warranty puts you back in the position you were in before the component failed. seems fair, but an extra two years would be nice

bmw parts, clothing etc. do have a two year warranty on them, if you buy them.

 

[Sgt Bilco]

The exterior of modern cars stands up very well to corrosion but you only have to look under the bonnet or underneath the car and you will find evidence of corrosion very easily. But as it's out of sight then people are not too concerned.

Quite right Bob. You simply cannot compare a bike with a car because the car has a lovely shiney galvanized and rust proofed body to protect the delicate bits.

I daren`t look under the bonnet of my 06 Vectra

 

[cookie]

Quite right Bob. You simply cannot compare a bike with a car because the car has a lovely shiney galvanized and rust proofed body to protect the delicate bits.

I daren`t look under the bonnet of my 06 Vectra

true, but not a fair comparison.

i'd like all the visible bits on my bike to be better protected. they could galvanise the frame for instance. just using better paint would be a start.

 

[NorthernBoy]

Quite right Bob. You simply cannot compare a bike with a car because the car has a lovely shiney galvanized and rust proofed body to protect the delicate bits.

I daren`t look under the bonnet of my 06 Vectra

Under the bonnet of my 07 car everything looks pretty much as it did when it came form the factory. Still shiny, still clean, still lovely bright coloured coatings. I'd be pretty unhappy if there were any corrosion at all on it, to be honest.

 

[Fanum]

(borrowed from Advrider front page shots)

 

[Nice 'n' Fat]

Now that is funny

 

[cookie]

....and after that

 

[elefantmanshawn]

Guys I have been reading this post with interest

and was wondering if you bought a £12000 car that is out in all weather, would you expect it to rust after 18 months, basicallyit does not matter if the guy washes the bike or not, it basically shows that the paint standard of bmw is not upto a high standard,and it is for this reason that beople go to lenghts to protect their investment.Should we have to ! that is the million dollor question

Jinky

Have you looked under a newish car?,the body work might be shiny but the view from below is quite different,no company will repair or replace parts they deem as damaged/corroded due to wilful neglect,the moral of the thread is surley to report and document faults as they are noticed

 

[Dainese Brave]

There are a lot of if's in that little lot.

If it were your bike.

If it were a car.

If it sat on the drive.

If it rusted to such a state.

All of which are perfectly valid, if they were / are all true. But, as they are not, other than the rust, which is obvious. Rust which you have no idea how it occured or why. Simply repeating that it is - or has to be - a production failing does not get you very far.

How many other bikes of a similar age and mileage have you seen in such a state and why? One, ten, fifty, a hundred or more? Is it a one off, caused by one load of badly applied paint? Is it caused by matey simply not cleaning it quite as regularly as he might have done, having noticed corrosion then simply letting it run on so that he could get it all done just as the warranty expired? Who knows?

Actually only two 'ifs' in my post!...if I was to buy a GS/GSA, and if I was to neglect it for 12 months....neither change the fact that I wouldn't expect my bike to be rotten on return....shabby yes!...rotten no!!

 

[Dainese Brave]

The thing here is that it is excessive corrosion.

A bike can't be compared to like for like to a car...it's true that most cars get minor corrosion underneath where they are not visable, and so long as this doesn't become excessive, it's not a problem.

But if the body panels corroded, even slightly, and especially after 18 months!, then you would make a claim under warranty....even though the car is still 'fit for purpose' ,and ultimately the damage is purely cosmetic.

It's basically unacceptable...purely because it shouldn't happen..not for any mechanical infringment.

But isn't that the point???.....body panels shouldn't rust, so you don't accept it, you don't expect a shabby car in 18 months regardless, why should you a bike???...just because it's a bike???


With a bike, especially a naked bike, nearly everything is visable, and also exposed...so therefore it should maintain a level of resistance to the elements, whilst also remaining 'cosmetically' appealing. (A BMW dealer will soon knock off hundreds when talking P/ex deals because it is obviously a big concern with bikes what they cosmetically look like).

Only good build quality and design will allow this.

This is not good build quality, and unacceptable in my view, regardless of conditions it's suffered. If (sorry Wapping!) it was 5/6 years old and had endured a hard life, then you'd expect it....not after 18 months.

 

[NorthernBoy]

I had one of the first Ducati monsters, a nice little 600 in yellow (matched my car at the time just beautifully). Despite having previously been an all-weather biker, the little ducati was kept for dry days, and lived in a warm garage, because I'd seen the mild steel exhaust, and noted the huge number of crevices to collect crud that would never again come out.

I did not particularly mind having to take such care, as the whole point of a bike like that is to look cool, and, brand new, it was about £3,000, so was very definitely a budget bike.

I think that my GS cost about £11,000, and I hold it to a higher standard. The first one did not meet that standard, but the second one possibly is. I don't think that it s unreasonable on what is a bit of a flagship model to expect that you'll have a high quality of finish. If we were actually being sold these bikes to do the Dakar, or to circle the world, then maybe we'd be silly to expect them to stay shiny, but I think that it is a pretty reasonable request for a road bike, used on road, in the UK.

 

[elefantmanshawn]

Noticed all the photo's in the sales booklet are sunny?,maybe the're trying to tell us something

 

[Wapping]

The thing here is that it is excessive corrosion.

A bike can't be compared to like for like to a car...it's true that most cars get minor corrosion underneath where they are not visable, and so long as this doesn't become excessive, it's not a problem.

But if the body panels corroded, even slightly, and especially after 18 months!, then you would make a claim under warranty....even though the car is still 'fit for purpose' ,and ultimately the damage is purely cosmetic.

It's basically unacceptable...purely because it shouldn't happen..not for any mechanical infringment.

But isn't that the point???.....body panels shouldn't rust, so you don't accept it, you don't expect a shabby car in 18 months regardless, why should you a bike???...just because it's a bike???


With a bike, especially a naked bike, nearly everything is visable, and also exposed...so therefore it should maintain a level of resistance to the elements, whilst also remaining 'cosmetically' appealing. (A BMW dealer will soon knock off hundreds when talking P/ex deals because it is obviously a big concern with bikes what they cosmetically look like).

Only good build quality and design will allow this.

This is not good build quality, and unacceptable in my view, regardless of conditions it's suffered. If (sorry Wapping!) it was 5/6 years old and had endured a hard life, then you'd expect it....not after 18 months.

Now we are getting somewhere, at least a recognition that a motorcycle is not a motorcar whether it rusts or not.

Let's stick with accepting that it is a motorbike.

Let's accept that it is excessive corrosion.

Let's accept that excessive is - on most reasonable measures - a level beyond the norm. Or, expressed another way, "It shouldn't happen", as most motorcycles do not show that level of deterioration after 18 months of regular cleaning. Or do they? Talk has been made of Irish stone chippings and salt air; is Ireland littered with similar vehicles?

If we accept that Ireland probably isn't and that most motorcycles probably do not look that corroded after just 18 months, the question therefore is why this one machine is showing excessive corrosion? After all most motorbikes - 1200 Gs's or otherwise - do not look like it after 18 months. Or do they?

If we again accept that they do not, let's start to look at some questions.

(a) Was it just a one off whose frame and parts had somehow missed a part of the galvanising / protection process or whose paint was for some odd reason not up to snuff? Maybe the robot sprayer forgot to include pot 123 in the paint mix? It happens. We insure large car / white goods manufacturers against just such eventualities but only when the items damaged run into sometimes 100's if not thousands, it really is that rare.

(b) Was it a motorbike that started to deteriorate and whose owner let it continue? It happens.

Why it happens, is of course, an open question. Maybe it was because the owner simply says, "It shouldn't happen, therefore it can't be happening?" Who knows?

(c) Was the process gradual, or did it suddenly accelerate in months 16 through 18?

(d) What was the rest of the life history of the vehicle?

(e) Is matey even telling the truth?

 

[Dainese Brave]

Now we are getting somewhere, at least a recognition that a motorcycle is not a motorcar whether it rusts or not.

Let's stick with accepting that it is a motorbike.

Let's accept that it is excessive corrosion.

Let's accept that excessive is - on most reasonable measures - a level beyond the norm. Or, expressed another way, "It shouldn't happen", as most motorcycles do not show that level of deterioration after 18 months of regular cleaning. Or do they?

If we accept that they probably don't. The question therefore is why this one machine is showing excessive corrosion? After all most motorbikes - 1200 Gs's or otherwise - do not look like it after 18 months. Or do they?

If we again accept that they do not, let's start to look at some questions.

(a) Was it just a one off whose frame and parts had somehow missed a part of the galvanising / protection process or whose paint was for some odd reason not up to snuff? Maybe the robot sprayer forgot to include pot 123 in the paint mix? It happens. We insure large car / white goods manufacturers against just such eventualities but only when the items damaged run into sometimes 100's if not thousands, it really is that rare.

(b) Was it a motorbike that started to deteriorate and whose owner let it continue? It happens.

Why it happens, is of course, an open question. Maybe it was because the owner simply says, "It shouldn't happen, therefore it can't be happening?" Who knows?

(c) Was the process gradual, or did it suddenly accelerate in months 16 through 18?

(d) What was the rest of the life history of the vehicle?

(e) Is matey even telling the truth?

That's an awful lot of 'was it?' and 'was the?' there!

 

[Dainese Brave]

Let's keep this simple......


....should a part always prone to the elements (the frame etc) deteriorate to such an extent, whatever elements it is subjected to (within reason obviously!) in an 18 months time span???

...I think not!

.....Let's hope the BMW warranty men think the same.