Damaged cam!

[Nasty1]

OK this bike is proving to be more of a shitter than I ever imagined .

Yet another one on the list of many jobs to do. I was removing the heads after the exhaust studs sheared, stripping the first head down I find this...its not new so wonder where the other bits are (sorry for the shite photo).
Well the question is do I have to replace these as a pair & what other associated parts have to be replaced with it....Followers, pushrods??

[/IMG]

Cheers for any info

Adie

 

[Colban]

Hopefully,the missing bit of cam was stopped by the oil filter.
Looks like a new camshaft to start with (expensive) and at least one follower (not too dear).While its in bits it might be worth replacing both followers and checking the followers for damage/pitting.
How many miles on the motor and what oil do you use?.

 

[Nasty1]

Hopefully,the missing bit of cam was stopped by the oil filter.
Looks like a new camshaft to start with (expensive) and at least one follower (not too dear).While its in bits it might be worth replacing both followers and checking the followers for damage/pitting.
How many miles on the motor and what oil do you use?.

The bikes got about 63000 miles about of which I done 1000 before laying it up to sort some of the issues out I could see with the bike. That was about 3 months ago. As for the oil it had the consistency and smell of TAR! when I got the bike, I put in 20/50 mineral straight away but it went tar like again in hours.

I get the feeling this may be a long long term project now, not really sure if I should venture further into the engine having found this. Nothing to do with this but I don't suppose anybodies got step by step bevel box rebuild instructions as I think by the mud that came from that might not be good news either!

Ho Hum

Cheers

Adie

 

[Colban]

http://advwisdom.hogranch.com/Wisdom

Heres a link to ADVrider Hall of wisdom.That may help.
63K miles isn't a lot for one of these lumps so it shouldn't really need a rebuild.I think a chat to an experienced BWM mechanic would be worthwhile.
Maybe a secondhand motor might be cheaper than a rebuild.
As for the bevel box,it sounds like it needs a bearing/seal and check the shimming.Good luck with it all.

 

[Nasty1]

Just pulled the other side down, one of the cam loabs there is the same (not quite so bad). Now either this cheap BMW manufacturing and this is acceptable or at some point cheap hard faced cams have been fitted and now breaking up? May be Steptoe will shed some light on this??

Also noticed that one of the spherical ground ends of the pushrods has just fallen out...sure its supposed to be pressed in. will post some other pic's l8tr

cheers

Adie

 

[Steptoe]

Also noticed that one of the spherical ground ends of the pushrods has just fallen out...sure its supposed to be pressed in. will post some other pic's l8tr

cheers

Adie

Thats fairly common - it's the cause of a lot of rattles that people hear.

And the cam damage is less common, (but not that less) and hearing more of it

 

[Nasty1]

Thats fairly common - it's the cause of a lot of rattles that people hear.

And the cam damage is less common, (but not that less) and hearing more of it

So Neil, would these be classed as scrap..useable or up to how deep me pockets are?

I notice that BBPower do a slight performance cam, no prices but probably cheaper than original parts. Would this be a silly move putting more stress on the bottom end?

Other pics...the other cam

Pushrod

not the roomiest/best working environment

Was fun getting it through here and into the shed

Cheers

Adie

 

[Pukmeister]

That second picture of the cam lobe looks like poor depth on the hardening, resulting in brittle failure (cracking/chipping)of the hardened surface. I would guess the hardening process was probably not done very well at manufacture by the supplier to BMW, also not helped by the poor quality oil you discovered. A ship spoiled for a ha'pence o'tar ??

Depending on how conscientious you wish to be, a big end shell may be worth opening up and inspecting. If it was OK you could take a gamble on the rest of the bottom end being fine. You could just take the risk and fix the top end only then see how she sounds when running.

Can the ball-end be loctited back in to the pushrod to save costs if in good condition ? (Steppers ???)

Looking at your pics and if it were my bike I think I would fit replacement cams and followers as they are clearly shot, then rebuild and run-in briefly with an average quality mineral oil before doing an oil and filter change with some good stuff. If she then runs without any concerning rattles and doesn't burn oil, she will probably last.

 

[Noel]

It's not the first cam shaft I've seen failed,

we could start a failed cam shaft hall of fame

 

[Nasty1]

It's not the first cam shaft I've seen failed,

we could start a failed cam shaft hall of fame

Is she an 1100 as well?

Cheers

Adie

 

[Noel]

No, an 02 1150 with 12k on the clock happend to me last year whilst touring.

 

[Colban]

Looks like that wheel barrow is going to come in useful taking the BWM scrap down the dump.
Seriously,what Brand and spec of oil have you been using.Also,which oil filter do you use.
There have been quite a few comments from folks on here regarding oil and how little they have spent changing it.
Not making accusations;just saying.

 

[cookie]

Looks like that wheel barrow is going to come in useful taking the BWM scrap down the dump.
Seriously,what Brand and spec of oil have you been using.Also,which oil filter do you use.
There have been quite a few comments from folks on here regarding oil and how little they have spent changing it.
Not making accusations;just saying.

doesn't look like wear to me. hardening seems to have fallen off/cracked.

 

[Steptoe]

There have been quite a few comments from folks on here regarding oil and how little they have spent changing it.
Not making accusations;just saying.

It happens to to many bikes, some at very low mileages to be a quality of oil problem.

A guy who works at motorworks, has noticed it on a lot of R engines. He posted about it on another site, i'll see if i can find it, and post a link to it.

 

[Nasty1]

Well I have only given it one oil change since I got it and that was straight after I got it. No service history as such with the bike...the service book had been misplaced I went right through and done the lot. It was this close inspection that lead me to go further because of various things. I only road it about a 1000 miles on that change before laying it up. Oil I used was Duckhams 20/50 classic (mineral) and the filter was a Knecht (from motorworks). There are so many oil debates going on here I stick with old school oil and intended to change it every 2500/3000 miles, if I got into off roading it then I might consider a semi/full synthetic, because it has better stability under higher temps.

This damage hasn't happened overnight, the bike has had serious neglect by my standards but from an engineering point of view I am not so sure it is a poor oil induced fault. There is no bluing so to speak of on the cam lobes so cant say it has been through excessive heat (not gone any further yet). Could have been from over reving and valve bounce? The bike was used off road so probably spent time in low gears being reved.

Anyway barrels and pistons are off now and I think the barrels could do with a de-glaze...can my local BWM dealer do this (come in Barhnstormer)?

Funny you should mention the wheelbarrow and dump...if I did not have the wilbers on order (plus tons of other bits I bought) then I think I would have parted it out on eblag. Remind me never to buy second hand again

Cheers

Adie

 

[cookie]

can you de-glaze nicasil cylinders?


dunno, but i don't think so

 

[Nasty1]

can you de-glaze nicasil cylinders?


dunno, but i don't think so

Pretty sure you can...they use a ball hone I think but they are sized to the bore so you need umpteen sizes if your a business. Of course I known to be wrong!

Adie

 

[cookie]

you know more than me on the subject by the look of it

 

[cookie]

what sort of neglect do you think caused the case hardening to fail on the cams?

 

[Nasty1]

what sort of neglect do you think caused the case hardening to fail on the cams?

Cookie FYI

IIRC cams are not 'case hardend', either new cams made of quality material have their surface flame hardened or old cams are built up with hard face welding rods to accommodate the new profile and then these are ground.

Adie