Dead GS : Starting problem

[Greg Masters]

Re: Its alive!!!!!!!

So my money is on the battery..

If the battery was cranking the engine, don't waste your money on a new one. That wasn't the problem. However, a deep discharge doesn't do a lead-acid battery much good.

You're wasting your time trying to charge a flat battery with an Optimate - the Optimate is a battery maintenance device (and a bloody good one at that!) but it only has a very small (and slow) ability to charge a flattened battery.

You should try to find the real cause of the starting failure. To do that, apply some easy logic:

• There are only three reasons why a motor won't run: electrical, mechanical or fuel.
• If the motor was running perfectly well and you SWITCHED IT OFF to stop it, it probably isn't mechanical or fuel.
• What did you do since your stopped it? You threw loads of water around the bike.
• Water and electrical systems are not good bedmates
• Check for an HT spark - it's easy to do
• If there's no spark, start checking electrical systems
• Alternatively, get the hairdryer or WD40 out and apply!

Greg

 

[rocks]

Water..

Hi guys.. thanks for the tips..

If it indeed was water, then i could be an ex GS owner come later in the year when the weather turns cold and i wash the bike daily..

I have always sloshed water over my ancient Bandit, the GSXR and the CBR..never had a problem starting any of them apart from choke cable snapping on the bandit..

The bike soaked in the rain on the ride on saturday so, would be surprised if my washing it got water somewhere it shouldnt.. unless it was down the exhaust, and that should drain somewhere..

Hmmm tis not a good situation. I will from now start the bike after i have washed it to ensure its running before i put it away.

its a poor show if a couple of buckets of water thrown over it can stop it. Especially for a bike thats supposed to be a rugged as the GS.. how the hell do people ride em countries with 90% humidity and amazon rain fall.. ?

I will also get a spare spark plug.. also going to fit a set of jump lead extensions once i can work out a set of decent secure lead ends and where to put them.

Sadly i didnt put my dads meter on the battery before i put the optimate on it, so not sure how flat/low it was after my starting attempts.. though it certainly didnt sound like it was turning the engine over any where near fast enough..

At least its running now.. just hope to keep it that way..

Cheers John..

 

[BTBR]

John

Do me a favour please, give Dennis a ring and see where he went to

BTBR

 

[rocks]

One dennis,, found.. going cheap..

One Dennis,, found.,. ok and alive.. going cheap.. lol..

He is ok and in one peice. I believe he decided to head home after midday some stage..

 

[rocks]

Dead Again..

Well my hopes the problems were the battery seem dashed..

Got bike out of garage, road to shop.. bought oil for bike road back.. parked bike.. unloaded panniers.. put key in ignition turn and lights but no pump noise.. checked alarm was off.. tried again.. nothing..

Five minutes later.. turn key.. whalla pump noise and starts ok..
So looks like i may have a problem with the pump..

So monday is a case of calling Williams in manchester to get the bike looked at and whilst its in with the tank off.. will have the hella's put in..

I just hope its something like a split wire heating up and not the alarm etc. or worse the fuel pump for i believe the costs on those are high!.. EEKK.. hmm this is putting a crimp of a lovely relationship i was having with the bike..

 

[littleredrooster]

Sounds like the fuel-pump relay is only working when it feels like it, or the fuel pump itself. Was going to suggest the kill-switch, but that prevents the starter motor from operating as well as the fuel pump. Thinking as I type - sorry! If it was the side-stand or clutch switch, that also stops the starter motor, I think. Therefore it must be the pump or relay.

Edit: Just been out to the garage to try this. Results as follows:

Kill switch off - no pump noise, no starter motor.

Engage gear, sidestand down, ignition on, no pump noise - pull clutch, still no pump noise but starter motor turns and will not start engine 'cos of no fuel pressure (?)

Engage gear, sidestand down, ignition on, no pump noise. Flip sidestand up - bingo! - pump noise, bike starts.

Therefore - ahem - I'm not sure but think it could be the sidestand switch with water in it. Try moving it up and down a few times, or better still, strip and clean it.

 

[emjay]

Re: Guilty as charged..

so the optimax i see as long term investment as our standard charger is a simple trickle and means i would have to take the battery out each time to do it.

Not so, I have fitted a BM style plug to my Gunson charger leads so it can utilise the accessory socket and then made up a lead with a BM style socket to the original clips so I can use the same charger on the car. Can send pics if it's not clear.

 

[sparkplug]

Hi Rocks,

I have a fully working battery which you are welcome to have for free if you come to collect it (don't know if you're ever in this part of the world!)

I replaced it with a Hawker battery which is absolutely brilliant.

If you are going to leave your bike standing it might be worth looking into one as they don't lose their charge in the same way that lead acid ones do.

I also now don't need my Optimate so if anyone is looking to buy one...

 

[BiG DoM]

I still think it is the side stand switch. These give problems on most bikes that do off-raod touring etc to the extent that at least one Trans Africa motorcylce company based here recommends disconnection as a matter of course!

 

[rocks]

Side stands.,.

I will have a look at it.. but i thought the side stand only applied if your bike was in gear.. i never start in gear.. or park it in gear unless i am on a hill.. I always leave it in neutral.

Hmm I will have a look at it.. but to be honest from lookin at it last time and spraying it with WD40.. i havent got a clue how to tell if its not working or not apart from ( if it will start) trying to put it in gear with the engine running and stand down.. not really too helpful for me..

Well the beast is booked into Williams for next tuesday to be looked at.. just incase it isnt that.. and i am having my lights fitted.. due to time and convienence and the engine chip recall BMW have out for my year model all being well.

Thanks for the many ideas and if it isnt solved at the visit to manchester i will certainly be back..

PS if you disconnect the side stand switch.. which i take is doen by simply pulling the cable off the connect where ever it is.. will it then start with the bike in gear?? I take it the answer is yes...

 

[littleredrooster]

Re: Side stands.,.

PS if you disconnect the side stand switch.. which i take is doen by simply pulling the cable off the connect where ever it is.. will it then start with the bike in gear?? I take it the answer is yes...

Pulling the connector apart will not disable the side-stand switch. You will need to connect the two wires together after disconnection.

 

[Mouse]

Re: Its alive!!!!!!!

So stuck it back in.. this time remembering to wrap spanner in tea towel to insulate it from the frame.. ( taking it out i had a light display.. sparky..)

Just butting in with a bit of advice

If you're removing or connecting a battery, always disconnect the negative first, and reconnect it last. That way, while you are working on the positive terminal, the frame is not earthed, and so you will get no sparky!

 

[schnauzer]

quote...If you're removing or connecting a battery, always disconnect the negative first, and reconnect it last. That way, while you are working on the positive terminal, the frame is not earthed, and so you will get no sparky!

Works fine as long as your vehicle is negative earth.....!

 

[Mouse]

Fair point!!

What system do BMWs use then? Anyway, if your vehicle is positive earth, reverse my advice!

 

[Greg Masters]

What system do BMWs use then?

Nobody's used +ve earth as OE since the early 1960s ( - somebody will prove me wrong, I'm sure!). I know, I was there!

Greg

 

[Greg Masters]

quote...If you're removing or connecting a battery, always disconnect the negative first, and reconnect it last. That way, while you are working on the positive terminal, the frame is not earthed, and so you will get no sparky!

Take your watch off too! I've seen at least one burnt wrist in my time!



Greg

 

[Clive]

Nobody's used +ve earth as OE since the early 1960s ( - somebody will prove me wrong, I'm sure!). I know, I was there!

My '74 Norton Commando 850 was +ve earth

 

[schnauzer]

didn't mean to be pedantic , but there are probably a few folks on here with more mature motorcycles tucked up under a blanket somewhere

 

[rocks]

Update..

I have had the bike in at williams to look at the fuel pump problem.
Apparently they believe it was the meta alarm. Will know more shortly when i collect the bike in the morning. So hoping they have fixed it..

THanks for all the comments and tips, have learnt a lot.. will remember for next time.. hopefully wont be one, but you never know..

 

[rocks]

The end.. i hope..

Well when got the bike to williams yesterday it wouldnt start after i stopped.. this apprently was due to the alarm being set too imobalise the fuel pump in the wrong way and so full ampage went into the alarm.. and relay went pop..

Now nicely re-wired by Tim at williams and so the bike should be ok now..

It certianly been ok since riding home. going to take it for a spin tonight to test the new lights.. ( full details HERE ) and so its looking like all is well.

Nice to have the bike back and at least i can say it was not the bikes fault but southport superbikes.. who apparently installed it according to the certificate.

Glad i went to williams now.