Deleted account 181015003
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Looks like rider error he is leaning the wrong way 
Now where are the sandwiches ?
Now where are the sandwiches ?
Death of a GS
- Thread starter RedRick Esq.
- Start date
ButtonMoon
Registered user
Andy who came to Scotland with us?
You know, the fella who kept getting lost with the other GS's
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Whore
Fixed it for ya
Hard to argue with that observation...!
(More tea, Vicar?)
We didn't get lost we went out at play time and didn't come back for a couple of hours
, anyway how come 9 of us always went the wrong way, and you always went the right way
Actually not hard at all
We looked at it as you have done but look at the helmet, the side pods on the Shoei are noticeable so he is looking round the corner and the stripe on the jacket
That still looks like the bit just as it goes but look before it and no lean wrong way etc
Not necessarily so ...
If the centre stand dropped down it wouldn't dig in, now would it
Unless our friend was reversing
Deleted account 181015003
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Not necessarily so ...
If the centre stand dropped down it wouldn't dig in, now would it
Unless our friend was reversing
Ok he forgot to put his leg out and of course the corner was missing the berm
Deleted account 181015003
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Here is one he made earlier, all the way around the corner that is.
Subconsciously or going for a big lean angle for the camera maybe
Not necessarily so ...
If the centre stand dropped down it wouldn't dig in, now would it
Unless our friend was reversing
He was on the wrong side of the road, so doesn't everything work in reverse?
Well now ...
I have now seen the video, and I've got to say ... I am quite surprised too! I was sort of expecting lairy speeds and lairy lean angles and it's all pretty sensible! So I can understand your head scratching.
Personally, I think he pushes his front first. We can all see his back coming round, but I think it's his front that goes first - just by the tiniest amount, and it all goes wrong from there.
I don't want to come across as one of these wankers that tells you how to go round a corner .... but ...
What I would say is that 'Steve' looks a pretty big guy and sits very still on his bike, he also looks like he rides on his insteps? (Hard to tell exactly..). So when you're a big, still sack of spuds, on insteps, there's very little input from you in terms of moving your body about and using your weight. You really are the ultimate passenger along for the ride and the bike is going to be the boss. Being 'still' is not such a bad thing - the ultimate swan on the water style is 'quietly efficient' (Page one, paragraph one ..!) but there's a balance to be had between being so still on your bike that you give it no input what so ever, and of course being lairy and hanging off and all that shit that we're most definitely not talking about.
The perfect balance in my very humble opinion, is a very active torso, very very relaxed elbows, definitely riding on the balls of your feet and a head that sort of leads the way into corners (Think chin towards the leading mirror).
What caused Steves tyres to let go? (Front I think) I've absolutely no idea?! (We could talk for hours on 'easy in, hard out', 'tyre grip trade off', acceleration sense etc etc), but (heres the wanker advice bit .. !) by being so still and 'unanimated' if you like, once that front had a little tiny slip, there was no loose rider input to be able to catch it and recover, there was no body weight to move about and be 'active' and 'involved' in the bikes steering and manourvering. What does your head weigh ? six or seven kilos? What about your upper body and head 35 / 40 kilos? That is a lot of weight! Thats an olympic bar and two 20k plates! Now imagine putting that on a waiters tray and getting him to hold it balanced with one hand. You'd only have to move that weight about a 1cm for the tray to collapse in the shift of weight. So what you do with your body weight or ... what you don't do with it, plays a huuuuge bearing on how your bike behaves, how it's balanced, and how that weight can affect grip.
Because Steve looks like he's along for the ride if you like (bit harsh .. sorry Steve .. but you get my drift) the momentum of the bike and it's little initial slide in the corner takes over, and once it's going .... it's going! Would a more 'active', 'involved' 'looser torso' 'just move that body weight about a tad' rider have either reacted more quickly to the front slipping or better still, prevented the front from slipping altogether ?? Who knows, but for my money, if Steve is scratching his head and is thinking 'are there any lessons to be learned from that', I'd say yes .... be a tiny bit more physical with your weight on the bike and move it about just a little bit.
(NB ... This is why off roading is so good for your skills!!)
I've looked through Youtube trying to find some examples of non lairy body movement and can't really find anything that appropriate, but this link is a reasonable example of upper body involvement (notice how he sits still in the saddle so no hanging off and knee out) and how he is using his arms and body weight to his advantage.
<iframe width="854" height="480" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/fXWVYtsf43Y" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
I have now seen the video, and I've got to say ... I am quite surprised too! I was sort of expecting lairy speeds and lairy lean angles and it's all pretty sensible! So I can understand your head scratching.
Personally, I think he pushes his front first. We can all see his back coming round, but I think it's his front that goes first - just by the tiniest amount, and it all goes wrong from there.
I don't want to come across as one of these wankers that tells you how to go round a corner .... but ...
What I would say is that 'Steve' looks a pretty big guy and sits very still on his bike, he also looks like he rides on his insteps? (Hard to tell exactly..). So when you're a big, still sack of spuds, on insteps, there's very little input from you in terms of moving your body about and using your weight. You really are the ultimate passenger along for the ride and the bike is going to be the boss. Being 'still' is not such a bad thing - the ultimate swan on the water style is 'quietly efficient' (Page one, paragraph one ..!) but there's a balance to be had between being so still on your bike that you give it no input what so ever, and of course being lairy and hanging off and all that shit that we're most definitely not talking about.
The perfect balance in my very humble opinion, is a very active torso, very very relaxed elbows, definitely riding on the balls of your feet and a head that sort of leads the way into corners (Think chin towards the leading mirror).
What caused Steves tyres to let go? (Front I think) I've absolutely no idea?! (We could talk for hours on 'easy in, hard out', 'tyre grip trade off', acceleration sense etc etc), but (heres the wanker advice bit .. !) by being so still and 'unanimated' if you like, once that front had a little tiny slip, there was no loose rider input to be able to catch it and recover, there was no body weight to move about and be 'active' and 'involved' in the bikes steering and manourvering. What does your head weigh ? six or seven kilos? What about your upper body and head 35 / 40 kilos? That is a lot of weight! Thats an olympic bar and two 20k plates! Now imagine putting that on a waiters tray and getting him to hold it balanced with one hand. You'd only have to move that weight about a 1cm for the tray to collapse in the shift of weight. So what you do with your body weight or ... what you don't do with it, plays a huuuuge bearing on how your bike behaves, how it's balanced, and how that weight can affect grip.
Because Steve looks like he's along for the ride if you like (bit harsh .. sorry Steve .. but you get my drift) the momentum of the bike and it's little initial slide in the corner takes over, and once it's going .... it's going! Would a more 'active', 'involved' 'looser torso' 'just move that body weight about a tad' rider have either reacted more quickly to the front slipping or better still, prevented the front from slipping altogether ?? Who knows, but for my money, if Steve is scratching his head and is thinking 'are there any lessons to be learned from that', I'd say yes .... be a tiny bit more physical with your weight on the bike and move it about just a little bit.
(NB ... This is why off roading is so good for your skills!!)
I've looked through Youtube trying to find some examples of non lairy body movement and can't really find anything that appropriate, but this link is a reasonable example of upper body involvement (notice how he sits still in the saddle so no hanging off and knee out) and how he is using his arms and body weight to his advantage.
<iframe width="854" height="480" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/fXWVYtsf43Y" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Well now ...
I have now seen the video, and I've got to say ... I am quite surprised too! I was sort of expecting lairy speeds and lairy lean angles and it's all pretty sensible! So I can understand your head scratching.
Personally, I think he pushes his front first. We can all see his back coming round, but I think it's his front that goes first - just by the tiniest amount, and it all goes wrong from there.
I don't want to come across as one of these wankers that tells you how to go round a corner .... but ...
What I would say is that 'Steve' looks a pretty big guy and sits very still on his bike, he also looks like he rides on his insteps? (Hard to tell exactly..). So when you're a big, still sack of spuds, on insteps, there's very little input from you in terms of moving your body about and using your weight. You really are the ultimate passenger along for the ride and the bike is going to be the boss. Being 'still' is not such a bad thing - the ultimate swan on the water style is 'quietly efficient' (Page one, paragraph one ..!) but there's a balance to be had between being so still on your bike that you give it no input what so ever, and of course being lairy and hanging off and all that shit that we're most definitely not talking about.
The perfect balance in my very humble opinion, is a very active torso, very very relaxed elbows, definitely riding on the balls of your feet and a head that sort of leads the way into corners (Think chin towards the leading mirror).
What caused Steves tyres to let go? (Front I think) I've absolutely no idea?! (We could talk for hours on 'easy in, hard out', 'tyre grip trade off', acceleration sense etc etc), but (heres the wanker advice bit .. !) by being so still and 'unanimated' if you like, once that front had a little tiny slip, there was no loose rider input to be able to catch it and recover, there was no body weight to move about and be 'active' and 'involved' in the bikes steering and manourvering. What does your head weigh ? six or seven kilos? What about your upper body and head 35 / 40 kilos? That is a lot of weight! Thats an olympic bar and two 20k plates! Now imagine putting that on a waiters tray and getting him to hold it balanced with one hand. You'd only have to move that weight about a 1cm for the tray to collapse in the shift of weight. So what you do with your body weight or ... what you don't do with it, plays a huuuuge bearing on how your bike behaves, how it's balanced, and how that weight can affect grip.
Because Steve looks like he's along for the ride if you like (bit harsh .. sorry Steve .. but you get my drift) the momentum of the bike and it's little initial slide in the corner takes over, and once it's going .... it's going! Would a more 'active', 'involved' 'looser torso' 'just move that body weight about a tad' rider have either reacted more quickly to the front slipping or better still, prevented the front from slipping altogether ?? Who knows, but for my money, if Steve is scratching his head and is thinking 'are there any lessons to be learned from that', I'd say yes .... be a tiny bit more physical with your weight on the bike and move it about just a little bit.
(NB ... This is why off roading is so good for your skills!!)
I've looked through Youtube trying to find some examples of non lairy body movement and can't really find anything that appropriate, but this link is a reasonable example of upper body involvement (notice how he sits still in the saddle so no hanging off and knee out) and how he is using his arms and body weight to his advantage.
<iframe width="854" height="480" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/fXWVYtsf43Y" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Well summed up
Being 'loose' & moving on the bike has saved me in a few front end and rear end slides on the road, as has some offroad riding experience - it gives you that sort of 6th sense to react quickly and offer some opposite count effects to try to ride out of it..............hard to explain, but you gave a great insight Giles
Well now ...
I have now seen the video, and I've got to say ... I am quite surprised too! I was sort of expecting lairy speeds and lairy lean angles and it's all pretty sensible! So I can understand your head scratching.
Personally, I think he pushes his front first. We can all see his back coming round, but I think it's his front that goes first - just by the tiniest amount, and it all goes wrong from there.
I don't want to come across as one of these wankers that tells you how to go round a corner .... but ...
What I would say is that 'Steve' looks a pretty big guy and sits very still on his bike, he also looks like he rides on his insteps? (Hard to tell exactly..). So when you're a big, still sack of spuds, on insteps, there's very little input from you in terms of moving your body about and using your weight. You really are the ultimate passenger along for the ride and the bike is going to be the boss. Being 'still' is not such a bad thing - the ultimate swan on the water style is 'quietly efficient' (Page one, paragraph one ..!) but there's a balance to be had between being so still on your bike that you give it no input what so ever, and of course being lairy and hanging off and all that shit that we're most definitely not talking about.
The perfect balance in my very humble opinion, is a very active torso, very very relaxed elbows, definitely riding on the balls of your feet and a head that sort of leads the way into corners (Think chin towards the leading mirror).
What caused Steves tyres to let go? (Front I think) I've absolutely no idea?! (We could talk for hours on 'easy in, hard out', 'tyre grip trade off', acceleration sense etc etc), but (heres the wanker advice bit .. !) by being so still and 'unanimated' if you like, once that front had a little tiny slip, there was no loose rider input to be able to catch it and recover, there was no body weight to move about and be 'active' and 'involved' in the bikes steering and manourvering. What does your head weigh ? six or seven kilos? What about your upper body and head 35 / 40 kilos? That is a lot of weight! Thats an olympic bar and two 20k plates! Now imagine putting that on a waiters tray and getting him to hold it balanced with one hand. You'd only have to move that weight about a 1cm for the tray to collapse in the shift of weight. So what you do with your body weight or ... what you don't do with it, plays a huuuuge bearing on how your bike behaves, how it's balanced, and how that weight can affect grip.
Because Steve looks like he's along for the ride if you like (bit harsh .. sorry Steve .. but you get my drift) the momentum of the bike and it's little initial slide in the corner takes over, and once it's going .... it's going! Would a more 'active', 'involved' 'looser torso' 'just move that body weight about a tad' rider have either reacted more quickly to the front slipping or better still, prevented the front from slipping altogether ?? Who knows, but for my money, if Steve is scratching his head and is thinking 'are there any lessons to be learned from that', I'd say yes .... be a tiny bit more physical with your weight on the bike and move it about just a little bit.
(NB ... This is why off roading is so good for your skills!!)
I've looked through Youtube trying to find some examples of non lairy body movement and can't really find anything that appropriate, but this link is a reasonable example of upper body involvement (notice how he sits still in the saddle so no hanging off and knee out) and how he is using his arms and body weight to his advantage.
<iframe width="854" height="480" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/fXWVYtsf43Y" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Thank you
cock
fred_jb
Registered user
Seems like a lot of the body movement in that amazing video is aimed at making the bike lean further and corner tighter, so his upper body is sometimes more vertical than the bike which I guess would have that effect. In the unfortunate incident we have been reading about it looks like Steve might have allowed the bike to stay a little more upright if he had leaned his upper body out to the right, but instead he seems to get more vertical at the crucial moment which would have had the opposite effect. I can understand this as I sometimes find myself doing the same thing - I think I instinctively do it to improve my view around the bend, but fortunately I never corner fast enough for it to really matter.
He was on the wrong side of the road, so doesn't everything work in reverse?
You got me there for sure ....
Well now ...
I have now seen the video, and I've got to say ... I am quite surprised too! I was sort of expecting lairy speeds and lairy lean angles and it's all pretty sensible! So I can understand your head scratching.
Personally, I think he pushes his front first. We can all see his back coming round, but I think it's his front that goes first - just by the tiniest amount, and it all goes wrong from there.
I don't want to come across as one of these wankers that tells you how to go round a corner .... but ...
What I would say is that 'Steve' looks a pretty big guy and sits very still on his bike, he also looks like he rides on his insteps? (Hard to tell exactly..). So when you're a big, still sack of spuds, on insteps, there's very little input from you in terms of moving your body about and using your weight. You really are the ultimate passenger along for the ride and the bike is going to be the boss. Being 'still' is not such a bad thing - the ultimate swan on the water style is 'quietly efficient' (Page one, paragraph one ..!) but there's a balance to be had between being so still on your bike that you give it no input what so ever, and of course being lairy and hanging off and all that shit that we're most definitely not talking about.
The perfect balance in my very humble opinion, is a very active torso, very very relaxed elbows, definitely riding on the balls of your feet and a head that sort of leads the way into corners (Think chin towards the leading mirror).
What caused Steves tyres to let go? (Front I think) I've absolutely no idea?! (We could talk for hours on 'easy in, hard out', 'tyre grip trade off', acceleration sense etc etc), but (heres the wanker advice bit .. !) by being so still and 'unanimated' if you like, once that front had a little tiny slip, there was no loose rider input to be able to catch it and recover, there was no body weight to move about and be 'active' and 'involved' in the bikes steering and manourvering. What does your head weigh ? six or seven kilos? What about your upper body and head 35 / 40 kilos? That is a lot of weight! Thats an olympic bar and two 20k plates! Now imagine putting that on a waiters tray and getting him to hold it balanced with one hand. You'd only have to move that weight about a 1cm for the tray to collapse in the shift of weight. So what you do with your body weight or ... what you don't do with it, plays a huuuuge bearing on how your bike behaves, how it's balanced, and how that weight can affect grip.
Because Steve looks like he's along for the ride if you like (bit harsh .. sorry Steve .. but you get my drift) the momentum of the bike and it's little initial slide in the corner takes over, and once it's going .... it's going! Would a more 'active', 'involved' 'looser torso' 'just move that body weight about a tad' rider have either reacted more quickly to the front slipping or better still, prevented the front from slipping altogether ?? Who knows, but for my money, if Steve is scratching his head and is thinking 'are there any lessons to be learned from that', I'd say yes .... be a tiny bit more physical with your weight on the bike and move it about just a little bit.
(NB ... This is why off roading is so good for your skills!!)
I've looked through Youtube trying to find some examples of non lairy body movement and can't really find anything that appropriate, but this link is a reasonable example of upper body involvement (notice how he sits still in the saddle so no hanging off and knee out) and how he is using his arms and body weight to his advantage.
<iframe width="854" height="480" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/fXWVYtsf43Y" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Thanks Giles. That is a very informative post. Very interesting and useful. good man.
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