do you believe this?

[birdseye]

Rang the service desk at my local dealer in response to BMW's invite to take my GS in for a brake check. They explained that this check involved no more than checking the pads for wear, hoses for leaks, fluid for levels and making sure the brakes worked OK. "No more than we would do in a service" he said, and since my 6k service will soon be due it could wait till then.

So BMW go to all the trouble and expense of sending out a "recall" just to do a routine check? All of which the owner would do as a matter of routine anyway. Or am I too suspicious?

I think I am being not being told the full story, dont you?

 

[PRR]

Yes I believe it

So BMW go to all the trouble and expense of sending out a "recall" just to do a routine check?

It isn't a recall, it is a free check to satisfy the owners that may have become worried.
If you're not worried, don't go.

All of which the owner would do as a matter of routine anyway.

No a owner could not check for logged errors.

I think I am being not being told the full story, dont you?

No I think you're seeing monsters as this issue has been blown out of all proportion by people on a mission.

 

[MikeP]

It isn't a recall, it is a free check to satisfy the owners that may have become worried.
If you're not worried, don't go.
No a owner could not check for logged errors.
No I think you're seeing monsters as this issue has been blown out of all proportion by people on a mission.

Common sense

 

[birdseye]

No - not common sense at all. No business would send out a Europe wide "recall" just to re-assure people, not least because it wouldnt re-assure. A free "safety check" is much more likely to raise questions than to settle them. Plus the cost (BMW will have to pay the dealer for the inspection) wont be small.

I have no problems with my brakes and am one of those who largely dismissed all that Dr ABS brakes and similar have said. So no "mission" - just that having run a sizeable business and having dealt with such "recall" issues, I am sure there is something more behind BMW's letter than I have been told.

 

[dellybelly]

I received my letter and handbook insert from BMW over the christmas period and the word "recall" is not used in mine.

The impression I was left with was that BMW were inviting you to have your brakes checked out at a dealer if you were unhappy with the way they were working, for your own peace of mind - not that they were recalling any ABS fitted bike.

Just my £0.02 worth.

 

[Jimb]

Birdseye

You are right, There is much more to it.

 

[NeverRodeBefore]

Got my extra manual page over Christmas too

Being new to this lark I don't really understand the big deal myself about this ABS... my bike has it, and so long as it works that's all well and good. I managed to catch the hand guard just enough to slightly depress the brake lever, which of course stopped the ABS check and was showing as a fault... took me an hour or so of looking for loose wires and then checking the rear brake lever, and the front which seemed ok... I eventually realised that the brake light was either stuck on, or not working, then noticed the hand guard was catching...

The page tells me, amongst other things, that if I do five emergency stops in quick succession, the battery could be flat! What the hell happens if I do 6?

I must admit now though, if the servo fails, or doesn't start due to a lever fault, will it stop? I would hate to find out!

I rang up my local dealer and they told me that my bike has no outstanding recall notice for either brakes or battery, so don't worry about it...

Perhaps I'll ring another dealer to see if I get the same response?

 

[Ste@SSB]

I received my letter and handbook insert from BMW over the christmas period and the word "recall" is not used in mine.

The impression I was left with was that BMW were inviting you to have your brakes checked out at a dealer if you were unhappy with the way they were working, for your own peace of mind - not that they were recalling any ABS fitted bike.

Just my £0.02 worth.

That appears to be the score on the door...
We have carried out quite a few free brake tests and so far have found nothing ... thats nothing as in nothing whatsoever ... not even a little bit of mysteriousness ... nothing...

If it was a recall ... they would be legally obliged to tell you that ... but they never will ... because it isn't...

If anyone wants a good conspiracy theory ... try HERE...

 

[Ste@SSB]

You are right, There is much more to it.

Like?...

 

[Mouse]

The page tells me, amongst other things, that if I do five emergency stops in quick succession, the battery could be flat! What the hell happens if I do 6?

I must admit now though, if the servo fails, or doesn't start due to a lever fault, will it stop? I would hate to find out!

I think that's the wrong attitude. Rather than be surprised (and possibly crash) by a servo failure (whatever the cause) why not go out and try it yourself. Find a nice quiet road, or even better a car park, nobble the servos (unplugging the front brake lever switch before turning on the ignition is a good way), and try an emergency stop or six.

There's no substitute for experience.

 

[PRR]

No business would send out a Europe wide "recall" just to re-assure people...

As information today is rather global I don't think this is limited to Europe, that would be risky. And it isn't a recall.

...not least because it wouldnt re-assure. Plus the cost (BMW will have to pay the dealer for the inspection) wont be small.

Of course it will be expensive for BMW. Anything of this magnitude is expensive to a manufacturer.

They have already tried to inform through the media but since that wasn't enough to stop the criticism they must work the other way around and inform the customers directly about the issue. It will definitely still hurt BMW sales but if they can at least make sure that every current customer knows the BMW point of view they stand a better chance than if only (the somewhat biased ) Dr. ABS is the source of information.

BMW undoubtedly had to respond to owners and to do so with the insert to the manual (smart as a further protection against the bloodsucking legal industry) will result in a reasonable additional cost (only the letter) for the customers that aren't really too worried.

A free "safety check" is much more likely to raise questions than to settle them.

True, some people will be more worried by this but at the same time this action will also effectively use the resources on the worried (both pre- and post-letter-worried) customers. Apart from the actual check-up they will get them in contact with the dealer and thus be able to answer any outstanding questions personally (very important to some people) and maybe even sell them some more stuff...

Only the letter, without offering the check-up, would have been cheaper initially but would not really reach those that are worried, but perhaps not enough to seek a personal contact themselves.

The dealer further explaining the issue to you on the phone is also logical to avoiding the check for people that aren't very worried and settles with the explanation that you will have the same thing when the bike is being serviced. It would save BMW money, the dealer boring work and it is much easier for you, should you decide that you don't need the check now. I bet they didn't expect your reaction!

If they had a hidden agenda they'd either really want to get your bike in for some immediate action or they absolutely don't, not both.

I think BMW could have done better in clarity with this information, because lawyers instead of motorcyclists decide what it should say. But since you seem to more criticise the whole campaign, how do you think it should have been designed to be cheaper and still be as effective in targeting the worried customers?

 

[John Armstrong]

You are right, There is much more to it.

Best not get out of bed today then FFS.

 

[JayGee]

Got my brake letter & pages over Christmas as well. To me it looks like BMW are trying to cover their back and prevent potential legal/litigation battles over the brakes servos failing under extreme circumstances. Just imagine a training establishment doing 5 emergency stops (or more) in the training school going out onto the road and their brakes then failing, if BMW hadn't warned us they'd be open to all sorts of law suites.

To me, it just shows the EVO -ABS brake system design is flawed. It works great now if everything is in A1 condition but what will happen in 5 years time when the battery is near the end of its life? Will the servos be shut off because the battery won't hold it's charge properly? My bikes new and usually the brakes work phenominally well but so do those on other bikes and they don't have servos, the system is ridiculously over complex and when you do an emergency stop the ABS kicks in way too soon.

 

[Gonzo]

Being new to this lark I don't really understand the big deal myself about this ABS... my bike has it, and so long as it works that's all well and good. I managed to catch the hand guard just enough to slightly depress the brake lever, which of course stopped the ABS check and was showing as a fault... took me an hour or so of looking for loose wires and then checking the rear brake lever, and the front which seemed ok... I eventually realised that the brake light was either stuck on, or not working, then noticed the hand guard was catching...

I must admit now though, if the servo fails, or doesn't start due to a lever fault, will it stop? I would hate to find out!

Similar thing happened to me. The rear brake light switch cover fell off and wedged itslef between lever and switch and ever so slightly depressed the brake pedal meaning that the servo/ABS disabled itself and I got the flashing light. Easy to fix but only after..........

...............my 60 mile ride home from work on the M23/M25 in rush hour. Which answers your question - based on the fact that I knew the servos weren't working - YES - the brakes did work and I was able to ride within the limits of the braking available. It wasn't great, but it wasn't dangerous either.

Failure in mid-ride might be dangerous but also highly unlikely in this scenario so you will have advanced warning of reduced braking. It might also be unwise to attempt the 6th emergency stop if the light were to come on.

To be honest until this happened to me I was slightly concerned about the reports of servo but well short of paranoid. Now having experienced no servos to a certain degree I'm chilled about it. If I ever do more than one emergency stop in succession I'll check for the warning light!

In the meantime I'll enjoy the vastly superior braking power that the system gives me.

 

[Nate]

Well having just bought a new 1200, I was playing with my ABS (never had it before) on the muddy lane to my house, just to see what its like and try to get used to it (you know so that I don't scare the life out of myself in an emergency)

Well, I must have done about 10 emergency stops in the space of 300 yards, ABS cutting in every time (it is quite good fun ) and I didn't get any flat battery ....

Nate

 

[marcparnes]

Here is one point to remember for those newbies unfamiliar with ABS problems: If during mid-ride either the brake lever or pedal gets jammed so it won't return fully it will NOT cause you to lose your power assist. The brakes will work as normal. Now, when you shut the bike down and go to restart the ABS light will blink warning you that assist isn't available. The reason for this is because during startup the brake system was unable to complete its check due that either the lever or the pedal was actuated. You now have the opportunity to find the cause which is, as mentioned above, often due to the handguard being out of position or a problem with the pedal. Both of which are easy to fix when you know where to look. My point is that most abnormalities that occur with the system usually show up during startup and very rarely during actual operation. I think the worries may be overstated. I've put a lot of miles on servo equipped bikes and have had a few problems but every one of them showed up during startup and never during operation.

Another point is that if you ever need to stop in an emergency you will be absolutely amazed how fast one of these servo equipped bikes can stop. I had a drunk driver in a pickup truck pull out right in front of me while I was running at 90mph on my R1150RS. I doubt, no, I'm positive, I ever could have stopped that bike as fast and as straight as it did without this system. I just grabbed as much front brake as I could as hard as I could and the damn thing just stopped like I had run into a giant air bag. No drama, no squealing of brakes, no tire skid marks. Nothing, it just stopped.

Just my experience. YMMV

 

[birdseye]

I think BMW could have done better in clarity with this information, because lawyers instead of motorcyclists decide what it should say. But since you seem to more criticise the whole campaign, how do you think it should have been designed to be cheaper and still be as effective in targeting the worried customers?

The answer to your question depends on whether there is more behind this "safety check" than BMW have said. If there is a real safety issue that requires the bikes to be checked more than a rider would do himself, then much the best way of dealing with the problem is to be open about it. Big organisations leak - the detail will get out if there is an ulterior motive.

If there isnt a reason more compelling than the sort of moaning we see on this forum, then the best way is a positive capaign to prove the doubters wrong. There are all sorts of things you could do, from sponsoring long distance reliability trials, to publishing reliability stats, to magazine tests of braking distances, to advertising reliability itself. A good PR firm would come up with loads more effective ways than I can think of after a hard day. "BMW write to all owners recommending a brake safety check" is not the sort of PR that will solve their problem.

Incidentally, I came across an interesting tech analysis of the servo / ABS system, on a US website. In summary, the writer put forward the argument that the latest system was designed to sharply reduce the length of the cycle when the ABS has triggered, the brake pressure relieved and then re-applied by maintaining pressure in the system all the time. In other words the servo keeps pumping when the fluid is being vented.

Apparently earlier BMW non servo ABS systems had a long cycle time wich reduced braking efforts on broken surfaces quite badly. Certainly I have been impressed by the ABS on the few occasions I have triggered it.

 

[PRR]

If there is a real safety issue that requires the bikes to be checked more than a rider would do himself, then much the best way of dealing with the problem is to be open about it.

Yes and since they tell you that this checkup is optional altogether (and that if you really want it anyway there's no rush) there really can't be any "real safety issue" that requires the checkup.

They did inform about the issue that is present; under very extreme non-real-life conditions this system may fall back to residual braking mode, as it was designed to do. So now we all know, and can be extra cautious on those occasions when we're practising braking with many successive extreme brakings without giving the battery any time to be recharged in between.

 

[birdseye]

The "issue that is present" doesnt require a dealer visit. The checks that they say they are doing do not require a dealer visit.

However, this debate is going nowhere. I think we will have to leave it that you trust BMW and I am suspicious of them.

 

[PRR]

The "issue that is present" doesnt require a dealer visit.

Yes your right. And since both your dealer and BMW says the same thing (remember it isn't a recall, just an optional free check) it seems that at least we all agree on that one.

The checks that they say they are doing do not require a dealer visit.

Since customers normally don't have the BMW diagnostic tool the check that the dealer can do is definitely more thorough.

As for myself I don't feel that extra checkup necessary unless I were having an actual problem with the brakes. But on the other hand I still understand if customers that aren't technically oriented enough to understand the whole issue and/or are being worried by both the valid criticism and the FUD presently being spread in internet forums feel better by having their brakes checked by a professional mechanic.

However, this debate is going nowhere.

No, I guess I misinterpeted things when you began by asking questions. It seems that you wanted confirmation of your suspicions (whatever they may be) rather than answers.

Another thing that we seem to agree completely on is that it's time for a pint. Skål!