Dolgellau: The Motorway is clear.

[Pipster]

Its such a shame that this thread has taken this negative tone. A great way to end the thread would be if those who expressed such negativity about someone they don't know, could apologise for such a personal attack.

After all, we all love the outdoors, and this pigeonholing of rider types is so unhelpful. We're all grateful for your efforts in clearing the lanes; thanks very much

Nuf said

 

[Rushy]

Yes and yes for different reasons, you asked what a true 'green laner is'.

I would suggest yes of course it's someone who enjoys riding them but just as important for some of us it's the historic environment we're riding through.
The lane we cleared is an ancient pack horse route where under the surface much of it is cobbled, the sense of history and past activities in these pretty much abandoned routes is awesome.

The other lane we cleared is part of Sarn Helen , an old Roman road which runs from Cardiff to Anglesey.
Ardent conservationists argue we cause damage to flora and habitats, some of us don't see it quite that way, rather keeping alive and usable part of our heritage and whilst doing so are most sympathetic to imposing as little impact on the environment.

Environmental views change with time, like fashion. In 100 years people could be asking, where have all our historic routes gone? and that would be a great shame and loss IMO.

So for some, it's a tad more than a gloryfied enduro track although who am I to suggest Terry or any other user thinks otherwise, just an answear to your question.

Perhaps if everyone shared the above views 'our lanes' wouldn't be under the threat they now face...perhaps not

Thats a really interesting reply Tim because I have yet to do any laning, although i hope to one day, and the 'historic' side of it is something I was not aware of. I'd like to do some laning for the views, the scenery, the potential isolation that comes from getting away from the masses and the challenge, plus the chance that it will improve my general bike skills.

We are all bikers for the 'fun' of it but it doesn't go unrecognised that many like yourself and Timpo also put a lot back in. I used to also, many years ago, by becoming an unpaid DSA instructor, but I cannot say that I contribute to the 'cause' in anyway now other than being a positive advocate of biking.

Apathy amongst the majority means that in many areas motorcycling has changed greatly in the past 25 years with the onslaught of new legislation, particularly for those just starting out.

I am guessing that its a delicate balance , more people riding the lanes means there is a greater chance of keeping them open and also challenging impending legislation but at the same time it can also cause others outside the sport to demand greater legislation to curb the number of people 'playing' in their countryside.

Terry however is sympathetic to the environment he is riding in and was only striving to also join in with the minority, you guys in Timpos pictures ,who contribute to the future of the sport and help others to enjoy it too. Maybe he is a true green laner after all

Ian

 

[Flipfly]

Having read through this thread I am suprised at the disrespect shown to a fellow GSer who is a true motorcyclist and a good ambassador for us out there on the lanes.

I rode with Terry on the lanes for the first time this weekend and he was courteous, polite and explicit with the rules regarding other users, where to go, how to ride without causing damage and overall conduct.

He also gave his time for free to show us where the lanes are.

I have searched to find legal trails to follow and have found that all doors are closed unless you pay (like the TRF). Surely these are lanes for us all to use responsibly? Calling Terry a comercial operator, then ignoring the fact that the TRF are exactly the same seems to be a bit short sighted.

I would have no problem in mucking in to help, I do however object to paying the TRF to find out where I can ride on public lanes. This information should be shared freely and policed by the responsible users.

It appears that you have to be in the right club to qualify as a true green laner/ trail rider

An appology is due IMO.

 

[Timolgra]

I have searched to find legal trails to follow and have found that all doors are closed unless you pay (like the TRF). Surely these are lanes for us all to use responsibly? Calling Terry a comercial operator, then ignoring the fact that the TRF are exactly the same seems to be a bit short sighted.

I would have no problem in mucking in to help, I do however object to paying the TRF to find out where I can ride on public lanes. This information should be shared freely and policed by the responsible users.


.

Well first, how do you think members of the TRF 'found' these lanes in the first place? Many of them wouldn't exist today without their efforts and will be lost again through irresponsible use
If you searched in the right places then you would be able to find them

To suggest the TRF are commercial operators is also shortsighted, do some research and find what the funds are used for eg, if a member is taken to court for riding a lane believed to be a legal one the case is contested and that costs money, where the outcome proves it was legal then a precedent has been set and we are all safe to use that lane etc etc.
What the funds are not used for is taking riders out and charging them for the privilege, a world of difference I think.

I personally have mixed feelings regarding 'commercial operators' using lanes rediscovered, maintained and fought for by other user groups so don't take my comments in the context of being anti.

We all object to having to fight for the right to use what is legal, but we're up against small minded legislation and unfortunately if you don't join groups such as the TRF then I'm afraid you never will find many of places which are our heritage...that's the way it is.

As much as some would like, the info on lanes will not be made freely available, that is the prerogative of those who put in the hard work over the years, but it is available for all from Council Offices.

Policing? now there's a tricky one TRF??? damned if they do, damned if they don't.

Once again, I'll remind you these comments are made with many years of involvement both with and without membership of the TRF and are in no way made in response to the Terrygate affair who is as far as I'm concerned another fellow laner

 

[Timpo]

TWIMC, for the record, and to prevent any more late input, KTM525EXC has been PM'd by myself regarding the matter, as have some earlier thread posters.

Regards.
Timpo.

 

[Flipfly]

I believe that if responsible people offer their time to take people out and teach them where to go, how to ride, and how to behave, then it can only be a good thing.

It's usually those without the knowledge who use the lanes as Enduro practise that cause the problems.

Using illegal lanes , footpaths and bridleways is a big problem and gives responsible trail riders a bad name. My issue with the whole thing is the lack of easy to find information available to keep people to the right places.

There are question marks about the legality of many tracks and the councils really need to mark these out clearly what can be ridden and what can't.

The TRF plays a major part in the finding and the upkeep of these trails, but they play the "because you haven't helped, we're not going to tell you" card. I believe that this is contrary to their own interests as it makes the information so hard to find, many will continue to ride where they choose rather than what is legal. As this will help bring forward the demise of our hobby, how can this be sensible?

Far better to help people get interested in what we do, and then ask them to help, rather than forcing them to join a club they may not really want to.

It seems like a strategy soley for keeping the numbers down, not educating people. Enduro practice boy will soon get fed up with being stuck behind a bunch of bimbling trail riders. The emptier the lane, the more chance he has of speeding along it as if it's his own private race track.

 

[Timolgra]

.........

 

[DaveGSCymro]

TWIMC, for the record, and to prevent any more late input, KTM525EXC has been PM'd by myself regarding the matter, as have some earlier thread posters.

Regards.
Timpo.

To say what?

 

[louisdut]

Apologies !!
In my rush to reply I did not thank all involved in lane clearing THANK YOU
and may have given wrong impression of the TRF.

This is aimed at no one just my view.

The TRF is run by volunteers and ALOT of members put in a lot of work and time in claiming lanes etc. there is alot of legal work going on which most of the time goes over my head being just a builder!


With regards to the money I think I'm right in saying that the TRF has had to employ legal advisers from time to time to help and there is the fighting fund (explainded above)

I have made ALOT of friends thought the TRF which is priceless

Like with every club you only get out what you put in and I can understand
what happens when someone joins the TRF and at the first meeting expects
to get maps marked up and never contribute further.

I may not agree with everything about TRF I would suggest joinning because they are doing best to keep lanes from being down graded as many of my favourite lanes in south / mid wales have been.

 

[Rushy]

Terrygate affair

Terrygate


Bloody hell this threads made him 'infamous' now..... some of us will never hear the end of it

 

[Spout]

So, these lanes you've cleared. Are they now GSable?

 

[Fanum]

So, these lanes you've cleared. Are they now GSable?

Very good question.....


I do fancy having a crack at some of these places, but these nutters just seem to throw pogos at them...I think we need a 'GS Only' day (and 'proper lardy GS's only, not half of one )

 

[timeandtide]

KTM5, why should it take me, a volunteer, to show you , a so-called commercial operator, where the trouble spots or areas of need are?
Shouldn't it be the other way round? Or are the commercial trail ride companies just take, take, take?
Have you tried, in the last twelve months to clear the route? In fact, a question...have you cleared or financed the clearing of any green lane?
I see that your picture shows a rider displaying racing numbers, yet this has not been an enduro route....
No doubt a member of the 'Hey, look, I'm an off road racer' vein of riders, the thorn in the true green lane rider's ar5e....

T.

I don't think that's entirely fair Timpo. I know KTM5 recently spent a Sat taking guys out on their GS's for nothing other than a contribution to the Air Ambulance. (And No I wasn't one of those who benefitted!)

 

[Timolgra]

Very good question.....


I do fancy having a crack at some of these places, but these nutters just seem to throw pogos at them...I think we need a 'GS Only' day (and 'proper lardy GS's only, not half of one )

I recall you chickened out last time


But the lanes pictured that we cleared could be done on a GS, even lardy ones.....five yards further and out of the forest would be a different matter all together

 

[Loz]

I recall you chickened out last time


But the lanes pictured that we cleared could be done on a GS, even lardy ones.....five yards further and out of the forest would be a different matter all together

whats these yard thing's people of a certain age keep on about?

loz

 

[Timolgra]

whats these yard thing's people of a certain age keep on about?

loz

I hear that bones get more fragile as you get old

 

[Loz]

I hear that bones get more fragile as you get old

you'd know bitch

loz

 

[boboneleg]

Timolgra said So for some, it's a tad more than a gloryfied enduro track

As someone who leads runs and has done for many years these people are the sort that threaten our pastime more than CO's or anyone else.

I'm also a tad suspicious of anyone who rides with me for one time only with a GPS.

As for lane clearing, well it's the same as anything else in life, there are those who do and the others will just take, take, take.

Bob (with only half a GS)