Engine knocking, cutting out and sounding rough

lukeeole

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Good Morning

I have come up with a big problem and after a day of investigating cant narrow it down.

08 800gs, running smoothly for months, not used for 3 weeks then these symptoms start appearing all at once,

engine knocking/vibrating (much more noticeable over 2500rpm) and sounds like its somewhere in/on the block, high coolant usage, high oil usage, when it does run it runs for a minute or so then sounds like something 'locks' in the engine and it cuts out, then struggles to turn over. (battery healthy - showing 12.8v)

I have taken all fairing and air box off and cant see anything visibly loose, checked the plugs, removed the rocker cover (nothing visibly wrong, not poked around in there yet) taken the right hand casing off - all looks good.

Plan to check the clutch and basket this morning.

My brother who was giving me a hand suggested that the water pump could be the culprit, the shaft seizing tight and 'locking' the pump drive chain, in turn jamming the cams and stalling the engine.

basically, HELP as I cant think of what's not working properly.

Cheers for any help
Luke:confused:
 
Whatever it is, running the engine will not make it better.
 
Well your cam chain drives the cams which drive the water pump by a gear , so your water pump can't stop the cams unless its seized solid or is breaking up.
If I were you I'd get the valve cover off , plugs out and turn the engine over by hand to see whats going on.

Steve
 
sloukes said:
Well your cam chain drives the cams which drive the water pump by a gear , so your water pump can't stop the cams unless its seized solid or is breaking up.
If I were you I'd get the valve cover off , plugs out and turn the engine over by hand to see whats going on.

Steve
Click to expand...

Have tried to turn it over by knocking it into first and turning the rear wheel but cant get enough force behind it to turn the engine over, is it normal to be that much resistance with larger bikes? any other ways of getting it to turn over, turning it on the stator with a socket and bar?

I know that this is probably pretty obvious but this it the first big bike I have worked on, everything else was small enough to turn over with the rear wheel.

the reason I thought it might be the pump is that it gets up to coolant gets hot quite quickly and before it cut out one time there was a slight whine which I thought could have been the pump, I know the theory behind the pump jamming the cams is a bit far-fetched but it seemed to fit.

Luke
 
lukeeole said:
Have tried to turn it over by knocking it into first and turning the rear wheel but cant get enough force behind it to turn the engine over, is it normal to be that much resistance with larger bikes? any other ways of getting it to turn over, turning it on the stator with a socket and bar?

I know that this is probably pretty obvious but this it the first big bike I have worked on, everything else was small enough to turn over with the rear wheel.

the reason I thought it might be the pump is that it gets up to coolant gets hot quite quickly and before it cut out one time there was a slight whine which I thought could have been the pump, I know the theory behind the pump jamming the cams is a bit far-fetched but it seemed to fit.

Luke
Click to expand...

It's much easier to turn over if you take the plugs out , then you're not fighting the compression.Put it in neutral too.
A socket and bar on the stator should do the trick :thumb2

Steve
 
sloukes said:
It's much easier to turn over if you take the plugs out , then you're not fighting the compression.Put it in neutral too.
A socket and bar on the stator should do the trick :thumb2

Steve
Click to expand...

cheers, did have the plugs out, I got that far... right back down to have another go

cheers steve

will let you know what I found
 
Being honest with you Mate I think you'd be better taking that to someone who knows what they are doing

As In Someone familiar with the bike !

I don;t know what revs you had in the video but that really did not sound good!
 
lukeeole said:
cheers, did have the plugs out, I got that far... right back down to have another go

cheers steve

will let you know what I found
Click to expand...

Drain the oil and take the oil pan off too to look for bits that shouldn't be there ie metal shavings or broken bits of camchain guides.......
 
sloukes said:
Drain the oil and take the oil pan off too to look for bits that shouldn't be there ie metal shavings or broken bits of camchain guides.......
Click to expand...

Good call and a good indicator of any damage

Although the "High Oil usage and High Coolant usage would have pointed to a failure of the combined water and oil pump or a headgasket but where is it going??

Best guess from afar? the Sump! Which will also cause it to be tight as the breathers are more designed for air than liquids
 
Get a very very clean washing up bowl, wipe it with a tea towl so you could eat your dinner off of it...that clean..
clean the area around the sump plug so that no bits of dirt can fall into the washing up bowl..
Crack the sump plug nut so that its loose but very little oil comes out.
Put the washing up bowl under the sump plug and drain the oil
Drain the oil and get a magnet, ( the back of a speaker has a magnet) and swirl it around the bottom of the oil ..slowly for about 1 minute..
Take the magnet out and inspect it for metal shards or anything metal at all..
Next, get a sieve and drain the oil through the sieve into another clean container..Again inspect for any bits of BLACK plastic...
Pull the stick coils out CAREFULLY and take all the plugs out, being very very careful not to drop a single thing down the whole..
Cover the plug holes with a clean cloth to stop anything being dropped in there accidentally..
Inspect the plugs, are they all the same colour? Have they got the same gaps
Put the bike into second gear and turn the rear wheel slowly...SLOWLY..and see if the engine has full rotation with out locking up..(turn the rear wheel around at least twice.
Let us know the results..Tosh
 
Tosh is pretty much on the mark with what I'd do. That bike mustn't be started to run again as it does not sound good. Ignoring the above inspection could end up being very expensive.
Or get it trailered to a good independent for professional assessment.
It may be the water pump impeller but until everything checks out I wouldn't start it again.
 
oil checks out fine, little bit of metal filings on the sump plug magnet, but nothing more than would be expected.

will look at the water pump and oil pump today, if I can get the time.

going away for a few months so will leave it be if I cant get to the bottom of it today
 
Why would you expect *anything* on the magnet, on a run-in machine?


have you access to compression gauge, oil pressure gauge, coolant pressure tester? Gaskets are too dear these days to blindly strip and inspect stuff...
 
dpm said:
Why would you expect *anything* on the magnet, on a run-in machine?


have you access to compression gauge, oil pressure gauge, coolant pressure tester? Gaskets are too dear these days to blindly strip and inspect stuff...
Click to expand...

That's precisely the point of using the magnet and checking. Oil pressure and coolant pressure can only be checked by running the engine. Compression gauge only works if the engine is spun at no less than starter motor speed. The potential damage from doing any of these things will make gasket costs seem like chicken shit (which they are any way):nenau
 
Sorry, don't seem to be smart enough to edit my previous post.

Tosh is spot on with his suggestions. A safe, easy way to hopefully learn a bit more.

BTW trying to turn any engine over by turning the back wheel will always be easier in higher gears (2,3,4) than in first. Downside is the higher the gear the faster the engine bits will turn/jam whatever. Again Tosh is spot on suggesting second.
 
Definitely brain dead today. Should read the "Upside of using a higher gear is the slower etc.
 
Nippy Normans supply Touratech, Wunderlich, Desert Fox and many other makes of accessories.
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